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nname Oct 16, 2021 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9425592)
It's interesting. WS originally had YHM as their eastern base and all but abandoned it for YYZ (except the YYC route). Now again for WO YHM was supposed to be the eastern base but now they're moving towards YYZ once again.

They kicked Flair out of YHM, so WO's job is done there. ;)

WhipperSnapper Oct 17, 2021 1:26 AM

Pearson in Toronto is an inconvenience for millions who live there. Hamilton would be much much worse. I'm not at all surprised both airlines grab whatever they can get at Pearson.

casper Oct 17, 2021 4:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9425592)
It's interesting. WS originally had YHM as their eastern base and all but abandoned it for YYZ (except the YYC route). Now again for WO YHM was supposed to be the eastern base but now they're moving towards YYZ once again.

At the time WS moved from YHM to YYZ there were stories and court cases about a WS gaining access to info on the loads of AC out of YYZ and that it was no brainer to move and not to return for a decade. Those dynamics have likely not changed.

Calfan12 Oct 17, 2021 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9425837)
At the time WS moved from YHM to YYZ there were stories and court cases about a WS gaining access to info on the loads of AC out of YYZ and that it was no brainer to move and not to return for a decade. Those dynamics have likely not changed.

Not too surprising. Passengers loads for Domestic,International & US flights✈️ in Canada are busier & loads are better, more profitable etc, at Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal & Calgary Airports as Most of new airlines routes have been added in these 4 cities.

Calfan12 Oct 17, 2021 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9425837)
At the time WS moved from YHM to YYZ there were stories and court cases about a WS gaining access to info on the loads of AC out of YYZ and that it was no brainer to move and not to return for a decade. Those dynamics have likely not changed.

Also Porter Airlines has plans to expand into Western Canada, with their new Embraer E195-E2 planes ✈️ eventually & with Vancouver YVR and Calgary YYC likely high on their list 1st due to its more profitable & more passengers demand from those 2 cities in the West✅!

hehehe Oct 17, 2021 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9425934)
Also Porter Airlines has plans to expand into Western Canada, with their new Embraer E195-E2 planes ✈️ eventually & with Vancouver YVR and Calgary YYC likely high on their list 1st due to its more profitable & more passengers demand from those 2 cities in the West✅!

I wonder if PD will be successful with this new venture.

casper Oct 17, 2021 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9425980)
I wonder if PD will be successful with this new venture.

Do we know if they will be using Montreal or Ottawa as their base for the those flights.

whatnext Oct 17, 2021 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9425934)
Also Porter Airlines has plans to expand into Western Canada, with their new Embraer E195-E2 planes ✈️ eventually & with Vancouver YVR and Calgary YYC likely high on their list 1st due to its more profitable & more passengers demand from those 2 cities in the West✅!

Who knew they were in such a rush to blow the wad of cash they got for selling YTZ and their sweetheart deal. Are the Deluces harbouring fantasies of their standard gambit of offloading their money pit to AC?

hehehe Oct 17, 2021 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426001)
Do we know if they will be using Montreal or Ottawa as their base for the those flights.

I believe they said it would be YYZ,YOW,YHZ and YUL. Quite ambitious.

casper Oct 17, 2021 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9426014)
Who knew they were in such a rush to blow the wad of cash they got for selling YTZ and their sweetheart deal. Are the Deluces harbouring fantasies of their standard gambit of offloading their money pit to AC?

Yes, AC stands ready to buy out such ventures when the time is right. They did lose out on Transat.

That said, I think the best home for Porter is as a subsidiary of WestJet. WestJet through their Swoop and Encore have demonstrate they can operate with multiple operating divisions effectively. Porter understands how to operate in Quebec, a skill WestJet has yet to master.

Dominion301 Oct 17, 2021 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9426128)
I believe they said it would be YYZ,YOW,YHZ and YUL. Quite ambitious.

That’s the 4 jet bases. The question is which one, if any will be the hub? YOW would make the most sense for them. No competing hub(s), and an aircraft that hits the sweet spot for the size of YOW’s market, no congestion, no nonstop competition on a number of routes, already PD’s largest station that’s not called YTZ. I know the ex-PD YOW station manager who is still “plugged in” and the YOW staff have FWIW apparently been told “we have big plans for YOW” and PD officials were scouting out sites a few months ago for a new hangar. Another thing in YOW’s favour (I’m sure in the airline’s eyes) is the YOW counter/gate agents are not unionized unlike most PD stations.

Time will tell, but I imagine YOW will see eventually at least 20 jet departures per day. YYZ at least that many too of course.

hehehe Oct 18, 2021 4:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9426151)
That’s the 4 jet bases. The question is which one, if any will be the hub? YOW would make the most sense for them. No competing hub(s), and an aircraft that hits the sweet spot for the size of YOW’s market, no congestion, no nonstop competition on a number of routes, already PD’s largest station that’s not called YTZ. I know the ex-PD YOW station manager who is still “plugged in” and the YOW staff have FWIW apparently been told “we have big plans for YOW” and PD officials were scouting out sites a few months ago for a new hangar. Another thing in YOW’s favour (I’m sure in the airline’s eyes) is the YOW counter/gate agents are not unionized unlike most PD stations.

Time will tell, but I imagine YOW will see eventually at least 20 jet departures per day. YYZ at least that many too of course.

I think it would absolutely have to be YOW. No question about it at all. I wonder how AC and WS react though. The plan still seems quite ambitious IMO.

casper Oct 18, 2021 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9426255)
I think it would absolutely have to be YOW. No question about it at all. I wonder how AC and WS react though. The plan still seems quite ambitious IMO.

The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

MountainView Oct 18, 2021 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426347)
The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

I wonder IF Porter decided to launch year-round YOW-YEG/YVR if WS would counter with year-round service of their own. I could see YVR working, but I'm not sure what the demand is like on YEG-YOW throughout Oct-Apr as only AC flew this year round pre-pandemic.

Dominion301 Oct 18, 2021 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9426347)
The COVID recovery period is the best time for Porter to do this. AC and WS are distracted with keeping the lights on to play the type of games they would normally.

AC has retrenched into Toronto and Montreal. Ottawa is not exactly a strong market for WS. They would leave Porter alone.

Very good point. There's a lot of routes AC and WS have not yet reinstated to Ottawa, especially YOW-LHR, with no timeline yet for that one or FRA (LH?). Those will be 2023 at the earliest. Some of them may never come back thanks to the DH3 retirement. YTZ-YOW announcement aside, AC it's clear AC are focussed on rebuilding the hubs asap and especially YUL. YOW could also give Porter access to LGA (assuming they can get slots) as preclearance to YTZ is no doubt now going to be delayed.

JakeLRS Oct 18, 2021 8:40 PM

Pivot Airlines will be launching soon

The first routes will be:

YKF-YUL
YKF-YOW

Looks like they'll be using a CRJ100 as the inaugural aircraft. Full announcement and launch dates coming this week.

Dominion301 Oct 18, 2021 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9426860)
Pivot Airlines will be launching soon

The first routes will be:

YKF-YUL
YKF-YOW

Looks like they'll be using a CRJ100 as the inaugural aircraft. Full announcement and launch dates coming this week.

Well look at that. Thanks for the info.

hehehe Oct 18, 2021 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9426860)
Pivot Airlines will be launching soon

The first routes will be:

YKF-YUL
YKF-YOW

Looks like they'll be using a CRJ100 as the inaugural aircraft. Full announcement and launch dates coming this week.

Thanks for the heads up! Didn't even know they existed.

JakeLRS Oct 18, 2021 11:50 PM

Flair Route Expansion

New routes are being loaded into the system... I wouldn't have guessed this...
No launch dates yet.


New Routes
DENVER (DEN) - Toronto (YYZ)
NASHVILLE (BNA) - Toronto (YYZ), Edmonton (YEG)
SAN FRANCISCO (SFO) - Edmonton (YEG), Vancouver (YVR)
VANCOUVER ISLAND/COMOX (YQQ) - Calgary (YYC), Edmonton (YEG)

MountainView Oct 19, 2021 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9427039)
Flair Route Expansion

New routes are being loaded into the system... I wouldn't have guessed this...
No launch dates yet.


New Routes
DENVER (DEN) - Toronto (YYZ)
NASHVILLE (BNA) - Toronto (YYZ), Edmonton (YEG)
SAN FRANCISCO (SFO) - Edmonton (YEG), Vancouver (YVR)
VANCOUVER ISLAND/COMEX (YQQ) - Calgary (YYC), Edmonton (YEG)

YEG-BNA is interesting! With the rest of them, I wish Flair luck! They seem quite random / well served already.


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