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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

spoonman Jun 23, 2016 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7483776)
We are not a business destination. We are a tourist destination. Our critical industries are not conducive towards large scale international business travel that would support regular service. We are getting these seasonal airlines because of our tourist destination status.

To add, we would have even more international flights if LAX was not so "close", siphoning off a large chunk of long haul international flights. Also, we are not geographically suited to be a hub.

Regarding Edelweiss, they have lay flat seats in their A340 first class. Plus, connections are available in Zurich on any other Swiss, Edelweiss, or other interline agreement carrier. Whether it says Swiss or Edelweiss on the side of the jet means almost nothing in this case. I agree Swiss seems cooler than Edelweiss, but this doesn't hurt us, just promotes SD as a vacation destination for those in Europe (probably good for increased name recognition).

mbb Jun 23, 2016 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7483808)
To add, we would have even more international flights if LAX was not so "close", siphoning off a large chunk of long haul international flights. Also, we are not geographically suited to be a hub.

Regarding Edelweiss, they have lay flat seats in their A340 first class. Plus, connections are available in Zurich on any other Swiss, Edelweiss, or other interline agreement carrier. Whether it says Swiss or Edelweiss on the side of the jet means almost nothing in this case. I agree Swiss seems cooler than Edelweiss, but this doesn't hurt us, just promotes SD as a vacation destination for those in Europe (probably good for increased name recognition).

Edelweiss only has direct flights from Zurich to tourist destinations. If you want to connect somewhere else from Zurich, you need to book a separate ticket, your luggage will not be transferred, you will not be compensated or rebooked if your first flight is delayed and causes you to miss your second flight, etc. There's a big difference whether Edelweiss or Swiss is written on the side of the plane. One is for tourists from Switzerland coming to San Diego for the beach (with possible occasional travel in the opposite direction), the other is for people who need to reliably get from point A to B with daily departures and guaranteed connections or rebooking.

SDCAL Jun 23, 2016 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7483776)
We are not a business destination. We are a tourist destination. Our critical industries are not conducive towards large scale international business travel that would support regular service. We are getting these seasonal airlines because of our tourist destination status.

I think saying "we aren't a business destination" is a blanket statement without much relevance unless you specify what you're comparing it to. Maybe we aren't compared to NYC or SF, but we are compared to smaller cities. I've had to travel internationally for business many times and we are a biotech hub. We aren't Silicon Valley, but we still have business needs here otherwise the BA and JAL flights wouldn't be successful. I guess the gist of what I was getting at, and it's just my opinion here, our airport authority comes off as desperate on occasion. They seem like they would take anything from any airline just to add to their routes. My preference would have been if they tried to attract a Lufthansa-Frankfurt flight - that's an airline I've flown a lot, it's a good base not just for Europe but for CA to India flights, and it's a good mix of business and tourist travelers. For all I know, maybe they did and it wasn't feasible. Just speaking personally here, if I had either business or pleasure travel planned to Switz. or Germany, I'd book Swiss or Lufthansa out of LA or SF and take a codeshare there from SD instead of taking these smaller airlines. Again, personal preference - I guess people have to weigh what's more important, taking your preferred carrier or having a direct flight

SDfan Jun 23, 2016 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7484174)
I think saying "we aren't a business destination" is a blanket statement without much relevance unless you specify what you're comparing it to. Maybe we aren't compared to NYC or SF, but we are compared to smaller cities. I've had to travel internationally for business many times and we are a biotech hub. We aren't Silicon Valley, but we still have business needs here otherwise the BA and JAL flights wouldn't be successful. I guess the gist of what I was getting at, and it's just my opinion here, our airport authority comes off as desperate on occasion. They seem like they would take anything from any airline just to add to their routes. My preference would have been if they tried to attract a Lufthansa-Frankfurt flight - that's an airline I've flown a lot, it's a good base not just for Europe but for CA to India flights, and it's a good mix of business and tourist travelers. For all I know, maybe they did and it wasn't feasible. Just speaking personally here, if I had either business or pleasure travel planned to Switz. or Germany, I'd book Swiss or Lufthansa out of LA or SF and take a codeshare there from SD instead of taking these smaller airlines. Again, personal preference - I guess people have to weigh what's more important, taking your preferred carrier or having a direct flight

Apologies, allow me to be less concise. We are not a significant enough business destination. Our main industries are defense (domestic), tourism (primarily domestic, especially when you factor Mexico), and biotech (Boston and SV are higher on the totem pole). Qualcomm, by itself, does not make us a major telecom center. If we were a major financial, federal (D.C. status) or technology center that was not near the second largest city in the U.S., then maybe we would be getting more international business travelers, and thus more international routes.

And I don't believe our Airport Authority is acting desperate by accepting and touting these airline options. They are constantly reaching out to major airlines to attract new routes. Periodically, there are articles on how they're speaking with airlines from Europe, Asia and South America to link SD abroad. But the reality of the situation is, because of our economic and geographic position, SAN cannot afford to be picky. We're getting tourist-focused airlines because we are a tourist-focused town. If we were the headquarters of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase, I'm sure Lufthansa would be running daily's to Frankfurt.

I would love to take major national carriers out of SAN to any number of destinations. But unless San Diego develops a more dominant and diverse economy (and LA slides into the Pacific), we will be transferring out of LAX or SFO for quite some time.

SDCAL Jun 23, 2016 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7484203)
Apologies, allow me to be less concise. We are not a significant enough business destination. Our main industries are defense (domestic), tourism (primarily domestic, especially when you factor Mexico), and biotech (Boston and SV are higher on the totem pole). Qualcomm, by itself, does not make us a major telecom center. If we were a major financial, federal (D.C. status) or technology center that was not near the second largest city in the U.S., then maybe we would be getting more international business travelers, and thus more international routes.

And I don't believe our Airport Authority is acting desperate by accepting and touting these airline options. They are constantly reaching out to major airlines to attract new routes. Periodically, there are articles on how they're speaking with airlines from Europe, Asia and South America to link SD abroad. But the reality of the situation is, because of our economic and geographic position, SAN cannot afford to be picky. We're getting tourist-focused airlines because we are a tourist-focused town. If we were the headquarters of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase, I'm sure Lufthansa would be running daily's to Frankfurt.

I would love to take major national carriers out of SAN to any number of destinations. But unless San Diego develops a more dominant and diverse economy (and LA slides into the Pacific), we will be transferring out of LAX or SFO for quite some time.

Many of your same arguments can be made against us having direct tourist flights too. We are nowhere near as big of a tourist draw as LA and SF internationally. Usually we are tacked-on as a side note to people visiting CA. That's why my thinking is that an airline that attracts both business AND tourist travelers would be a better option, spread some of the risk around. How many overseas travelers from Europe come to CA and ONLY visit SD? Your arguments about us not being viable for international business travel apply to tourism as well. We aren't a 1st tier international tourist market any more than we are a 1st tier international business market

SDfan Jun 24, 2016 2:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7484221)
Many of your same arguments can be made against us having direct tourist flights too. We are nowhere near as big of a tourist draw as LA and SF internationally. Usually we are tacked-on as a side note to people visiting CA. That's why my thinking is that an airline that attracts both business AND tourist travelers would be a better option, spread some of the risk around. How many overseas travelers from Europe come to CA and ONLY visit SD? Your arguments about us not being viable for international business travel apply to tourism as well. We aren't a 1st tier international tourist market any more than we are a 1st tier international business market

I agree with you that we are not a top-tier tourist destination. SF and LA are much more prominent and well known. We would be second tier in tourism in comparison. However, we are fourth, fifth or sixth place in most other economic categories that might attract international travelers. And based on what's being offered, it seems for these airlines, it is best to go after low hanging fruit (tourists) rather than trying to reach for top branches (business travelers).

My argument that San Diego is not viable for sustained international business travelers is not only accurate, it's proven. The thing is, airlines do their own cost/benefit analysis with their route offerings. What San Diego is getting (seasonal, tourist-focused international routes) is the result of those analyses. Airlines are not going to "spread some of the risk around" if they clearly cannot make money focusing on business travelers solely or even partially. If they concluded that it was feasible and profitable, you would see Lufthansa, Korean Air, and Air France landing in Lindberg now. But you don't. Instead, we get summer flights filled with vacationing Europeans. So, in the end, my argument does not apply to tourism, otherwise, why would these airlines be offering what they are offering (tourist chartering)? The market speaks for itself.

dtell04 Jun 24, 2016 5:19 AM

http://m.kogo.iheart.com/onair/the-d...-san-14841716/

When will this be over?!?! 2018? 2019?
Another stadium plan.....

HurricaneHugo Jun 24, 2016 6:50 AM

Google expanding to San Diego:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...sorrento-mesa/

SDCAL Jun 25, 2016 12:32 AM

Nordstrom Horton plaza to close after over 3 decades in business. Westfield needs to revamp HP soon, it's sinking!

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/jun/24...tore-to-close/

eburress Jun 25, 2016 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7485538)
Nordstrom Horton plaza to close after over 3 decades in business. Westfield needs to revamp HP soon, it's sinking!

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/jun/24...tore-to-close/

Maybe they're intentionally letting the mall go in order to rebuild a more appropriate, massive, mixed-use development... :)

Lipani Jun 26, 2016 1:25 AM

Horton Plaza's demise is reminding me a lot of Downtown Plaza in Sacramento. But at least half of that mall got knocked down for an arena/hotel.

SDCAL Jun 26, 2016 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lipani (Post 7486264)
Horton Plaza's demise is reminding me a lot of Downtown Plaza in Sacramento. But at least half of that mall got knocked down for an arena/hotel.

I think HP can be successful staying retail since there isn't a lot of other places downtown for that, but it needs to be re-designed and opened-up to integrate with the surrounding area

embora Jun 26, 2016 3:42 AM

I just saw the an area at the southwest corner of the intersection of 15th & Island blocked off with a fence, and there is some construction equipment inside. Perhaps they are building the second phase, the"Minnesota Twins Tower," next to the existing "Green Bay Packer Tower"? Or maybe it is a staging area for another nearby construction site.

staplesla Jun 26, 2016 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by embora (Post 7486339)
I just saw the an area at the southwest corner of the intersection of 15th & Island blocked off with a fence, and there is some construction equipment inside. Perhaps they are building the second phase, the"Minnesota Twins Tower," next to the existing "Green Bay Packer Tower"? Or maybe it is a staging area for another nearby construction site.

It's for the Pinnacle on Park Tower 2, which has been under construction for a few weeks.

Bertrice Jun 26, 2016 4:17 PM

well it's on in Point Loma

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...384423851.html

chris08876 Jun 26, 2016 5:28 PM

Is that ballpark village with the yellow crane in the distance? Behind the tower with the yellow/blue facade.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7617/2...dfe97bbd_h.jpg
Aerial view of San Diego CA by mbell1975, on Flickr

Can also see some construction in the image below. I gotta say, holy crap! San Diego has gotten pretty big and dense.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7567/2...3f3f37f3_h.jpg
Aerial view of San Diego CA by mbell1975, on Flickr

Bertrice Jun 26, 2016 5:51 PM

yes

Bertrice Jun 26, 2016 5:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 7486549)
Is that ballpark village with the yellow crane in the distance? Behind the tower with the yellow/blue facade.

Yes

wadams92101 Jun 26, 2016 7:40 PM

Hi SD skyscraper devotees. As the most informed YIMBYs in SD, I wanted to let you know about to my attempt at replacing the dearly departed CCDC Interactive Project map. It's a downtown development map. It's a work in progress. Please feel free to let me know of any projects missing from the map: http://sandiego.urbdezine.com/development-map/

superfishy Jun 26, 2016 7:58 PM

[QUOTE=chris08876;7486549]Is that ballpark village with the yellow crane in the distance? Behind the tower with the yellow/blue facade.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7617/2...dfe97bbd_h.jpg
Aerial view of San Diego CA by mbell1975, on Flickr

Whats project is the crane for in the far right side of the picture? Looks like it might be in Gaslamp.


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