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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

kpexpress Sep 16, 2009 5:48 AM

Imagine if the airport was moved and a large portion of bayfront land was allocated for a stadium and this was built.

http://www.archdaily.com/35207/dalia...-stadium-nbbj/

dl3000 Sep 16, 2009 6:13 AM

Delete

dl3000 Sep 16, 2009 6:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voice of reason (Post 4453023)
Solution.

Buy more buses.

Problem solved.

Class dismissed.

Golly, with all those buses and cars, don't you think the roads might feel a little congested? At least they would in the real world.




And yeah yeah, Fusey, the downsides of the downtown trolley segments have been discussed. But regardless, whenever a rail system runs through the core of a city, the density of stations always slow things down. Granted that is not the main issue, but it is one of the reasons.

brantw Sep 17, 2009 6:11 PM

Sapphire Tower at night
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2511/...22b17391e8.jpg

brantw Sep 18, 2009 12:33 AM

From the Top of the Hyatt
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/...28644b14bd.jpg

OneMetropolis Sep 18, 2009 1:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brantw (Post 4462000)

^^^^^^ yuck I hate those buildings. They look like two mishappend retarted pens. They're just hideous, never were they my favorite building's in SD.

Fusey Sep 18, 2009 1:08 AM

Quote:

Sanders to push for new City Hall, other projects
Critics say pension should be key focus

By Craig Gustafson
Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. September 16, 2009

SAN DIEGO — San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders plans to push forward on major municipal projects despite naysayers who cite the recession and a projected $100 million budget deficit as insurmountable obstacles.

Sanders said he believes the city can and will build a new City Hall complex, expand the San Diego Convention Center and construct a new downtown library over the next few years.

“We cannot allow our judgment to be clouded by the defeatists who think the only response to a weak economy is to abandon our aspirations,” he said.

The mayor's economic speech yesterday came ahead of a crucial decision Friday by pension officials that will largely determine how big the city's budget deficit will be next year.

The pension board is considering changes that could relieve the city of $50 million of its $225 million projected payment into the retirement fund next year. The changes would provide short-term savings but likely result in higher payments in later years.

Several critics — including City Council members Carl DeMaio, Kevin Faulconer, Donna Frye and Todd Gloria — say the changes would repeat past problems of failing to save enough money to fund promised pensions.

Sanders referenced the importance of the pending board decision in his speech before a 300-plus crowd gathered for a San Diego County Taxpayers Association luncheon at the Town and Country Resort & Hotel.

“There has been considerable speculation about what the size of that payment will be, but whatever the amount, let me be clear: We will make our full pension payment,” he said.

The mayor has declined to weigh in on how he would prefer the board to vote, saying that past city leaders pressuring pension officials led to many of the city's money problems.

If the board does nothing, the city's annual payment will continue to consume an ever-larger piece of the city budget — as much as $318 million by fiscal 2015.

Businessman Steve Francis, who lost to Sanders in last year's election, said he found the timing of the mayor's speech bizarre.

“It is a bit baffling in light of the fact that we're facing — to his own admission — a fiscal tsunami that he didn't lay out an evacuation plan,” said Francis, who attended the speech. “We need to be talking about how we're going to solve this pension problem and not building buildings.”

Sanders has long said each of proposed projects would need to be funded without affecting the city's general fund. Methods on the table include fundraising and downtown redevelopment money for the library, and taxes aimed at the tourism industry for the convention center expansion.

DeMaio said the mayor should focus his energy elsewhere.

“To basically say the emphasis should be on three costly civic projects, rather than fixing the financial problems, as our core priority is disappointing to say the least,” he said.

Gloria said he appreciated the positive tone of Sanders' speech and agreed the city shouldn't be afraid to think big despite its money woes.

“His approach of suggesting that we are right to be optimistic about the city's future and that we must continue to dream big dreams is exactly right,” Gloria said.

Mike McDowell, board chairman of the taxpayers group, said the budget deficit next year doesn't mean progress isn't possible.

“I think it's important that we don't put our head in the sand, that we face the obstacles and the opportunities with equal vigor,” he said.
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stori...ther-projects/

IconRPCV Sep 18, 2009 5:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brantw (Post 4462000)

I love them. I have a fondness for anything 70's with brown glass. I know they weren't built in the 70's but they sure look like it. If nothing else they are unique and distinctive. I think they look like they are two sentinels guarding downtown.

brantw Sep 18, 2009 5:29 PM

Some random ones from the Hillcrest/Mission Hills area:

This one kinda reminds me of the building I live in (Treo). It kinda has a step-like design.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2583/...5e13df0c0b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3447/...19ba65a5cb.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/...4633d42c09.jpg

Here's a random little guy that they are just finishing up
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/...ff11400130.jpg

Don't know the name of these, but I like them
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2667/...2f9a18bc6f.jpg

This could be tall, sorry I don't have the name. It's somewhere on 5th.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2205/...fbd1ea5171.jpg

This one is called Mis Arbolitos. One unit per floor starting at $1.2 million, I believe.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2449/...869e4334a6.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3423/...fc59031aba.jpg

tdavis Sep 18, 2009 7:17 PM

The building you referenced on 5th, "could be tall" was foreclosed on over a year ago. Notice all the steel is rusted.

Fusey Sep 18, 2009 8:42 PM

Anyone see the giant auction banner on the top of Smart Corner?

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1773/auction3.jpg

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/around-to...-59549987.html

brantw Sep 18, 2009 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdavis (Post 4463318)
The building you referenced on 5th, "could be tall" was foreclosed on over a year ago. Notice all the steel is rusted.

Oh wow, you're right. I wonder what they will do with that lot.

BrandonJXN Sep 18, 2009 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brantw (Post 4462000)

I love Harbor Club. I just wish they would light them up again. I remember one was lit pink and the other white but this was ages ago.

brantw Sep 18, 2009 11:01 PM

Metro-Work, it's a weird building. Anthology is on the bottom.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/...a0d42dbe42.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2542/...ba2ec8fd57.jpg

Heading south on Kettner. I like this view/area because it really makes you feel like you are headed down into the middle of all the buildings.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/...e41ce5db1f.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3433/...635c901d81.jpg

Allegro Towers is ugly, but massive.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3500/...539713e5bd.jpg

The back of Breeza
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/...f57bfe91e7.jpg

My building (Treo)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/...bd0512bb87.jpg

Sapphire Tower, I really love this building. I hope to live there, next.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3458/...359f65c5f7.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/...ba5180a39a.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2674/...2ae368fd7e.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3455/...fecb8f815c.jpg

The Grandes
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/...0462481137.jpg

An oldie, but goodie
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3420/...df7f863dab.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/...6ef0206209.jpg

Looking up Broadway
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/...86e226beb6.jpg

Forgot the name of this one
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3438/...6d37c94478.jpg

brantw Sep 18, 2009 11:08 PM

Looking back at Santa Fe Station with the Grandes in the background
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2669/...d26921c15b.jpg

Electra is huge!!!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2501/...3a3007aa69.jpg

The new Federal Courthouse - Coming Soon! I am excited for this one!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2482/...87354e8dfe.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/...7be04e3cf7.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/...ca3b7da00e.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2509/...5a54eb6b2e.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3529/...b99330da8c.jpg

The US Grant
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2672/...c904d7e72d.jpg

Forgot the name of this. Right next to the House of Blues. Pretty interesting architecture.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/...3aec0d282f.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2607/...d6296676d6.jpg

tdavis Sep 18, 2009 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brantw (Post 4463476)
Oh wow, you're right. I wonder what they will do with that lot.

It was purchased by another organization, can't remember who. My personal belief is that this lot will probably sit like this for another 2-3 years until the economy starts to bounce back fully.

BrandonJXN Sep 18, 2009 11:18 PM

Thank you for the pictures. SD has a very underrated skyline. Even though the 500 foot tall limit kills any sort of height, it's very clean and modern.

brantw Sep 18, 2009 11:19 PM

More Vantage Pointe. This thing is a beast!!!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/...b022cbe2c2.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2489/...801bd23bf9.jpg

Peeking through
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3486/...4982033059.jpg

Don't know which one that is in back of Vantage, but it's one of the only couple cranes in downtown, right now.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3439/...fcf8913412.jpg

A nice shot down I forgot which street
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/...1510839340.jpg

This is the building with the funny looking satellite thing on top
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2491/...925c95e0a4.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3474/...db1ee99c5a.jpg

Now I'm starting to forget which building is which. Sorry I didn't keep better track.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2558/...57d4b69209.jpg

Is this the same crane? Or a different one, I forget.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2573/...051da90c58.jpg

Heading towards Cortez Hill
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/...e10ec8dae4.jpg

This guy is big, I like it.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2438/...6b5c5f1f3e.jpg

Not sure which one this is
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2450/...2ddbf3f006.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2594/...638d0f8de2.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/...b1d2a65846.jpg

An interesting town-home looking entrance
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3528/...7d42b02d6c.jpg

A new 7-11 that just opened up. I swear there are like 20, downtown now.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2510/...b0cb328480.jpg

Ended up here at Tweet Street. Very cool little park area. This was cool because I use twitter a lot. If any of you are on there you can find me @brant
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2436/...a047df3073.jpg

Complex01 Sep 19, 2009 2:02 AM

Very nice pics. SD looks nice...

mello Sep 21, 2009 6:08 PM

Bad ass skyline angle
 
I just noticed how nice the skyline looks from here. We need someone to go get a shot where the palm tree isn't blocking the Southern End of the skyline though. I think this is actually one of the better angles of the city. It looks dense and also has some peaks and valleys --- :cheers:

Damn palm tree :(

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...4/IMG_8350.jpg

Pic posted from Sd Urban's thread -- San Diego a go go

dl3000 Sep 21, 2009 8:02 PM

Looks like Loma Portal area.

HurricaneHugo Sep 22, 2009 3:45 AM

damn that's nice with the mountains in the background

Fusey Sep 22, 2009 4:59 PM

I love that view in the winter time when the mountains have snow and it's 68 down here. :D

kpexpress Sep 22, 2009 10:07 PM

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_0596.jpg

View down Island with new projects going up. Stratta, Park Place, and soon TJSL.

Fusey Sep 23, 2009 9:48 PM

Quote:

2-City Plan For New Chargers Stadium In Discussion

SAN DIEGO -- The effort to keep the San Diego Chargers in the San Diego area might depend on two cities teaming up, 10News' Michael Chen reported.

Sources informed Chen that the cities of Oceanside and Escondido are discussing a partnership that would solve some of the biggest hurdles -- finding enough space for both a new stadium and a mixed-used development that could help the team fund the stadium.

The proposed plan would have one city host the stadium while the other city would build the mixed-use development to aid in the funding.

Sources told Chen that in exchange, one city would receive revenues from the other and the team.

Oceanside's Centre City Golf Course will be revived by the city council, sources told Chen, as a possible stadium site after it is placed on the agenda for an October session.

The Chargers will take a look at Escondido and the 17-acre site of its swap meet.

Next week, the team will begin meeting with developers to discuss specific details in order to see if the plan is doable.

Mark Fabiani, Special Counsel for the Chargers, said, "It sounds promising. While it is an advantage for the projects to be connected, it is possible to divide it. The key will be generating the needed revenue to privately finance a stadium."
http://www.10news.com/news/21073103/detail.html

I really hope this is something besides one of the random ideas that get thrown around for a new stadium every month. We'll have to wait and see how this one plays out.

Derek Sep 24, 2009 6:44 AM

Go Escondido, go!

HurricaneHugo Sep 25, 2009 2:39 AM

On the other hand...the City of Industry just cleared another hurdle...

http://laist.com/2009/09/24/nfl_stad...s_industry.php

kpexpress Sep 25, 2009 2:53 AM

Just wondering if anyone knows what the project that is under construction in Cortez Hill is. It's located just North of Aria. Looks like a small project. Anyone?

staplesla Sep 26, 2009 2:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4473546)
Just wondering if anyone knows what the project that is under construction in Cortez Hill is. It's located just North of Aria. Looks like a small project. Anyone?

Is this the area you are talking about?

http://www.ccdc.com/index.cfm?fuseac...propertyID=645

kpexpress Sep 26, 2009 7:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesla (Post 4475435)
Is this the area you are talking about?

http://www.ccdc.com/index.cfm?fuseac...propertyID=645

That looks like it! doesn't look like it can have that many units though. be interesting to see what happens. glad to see some city dev going on though.

kpexpress Sep 26, 2009 7:31 AM

Three wishes
 
If you had three wishes for SD and they could come true instantly, what would you wish for? What would you have changed and why?

everyone weigh in, that means you mr. voiceofreason.

Derek Sep 26, 2009 8:07 AM

1. Chargers stadium.
2. the Marines leaving Miramar and having it be converted into an international airport.
3. Extend the Trolley lines to the airport (up to Miramar if wish 2 came true), lines running all the way to the Escondido Sprinter station with stops at Rancho Bernardo, Sabre Springs, North County Fair mall, Scripps Ranch, and Mira Mesa, all underground. Extend the trolley line through Mira Mesa (underground) to UTC to connect to the Mid-Coast extension (which also needs to be built). Trolley extended up 5th Avenue to Hillcrest (underground). Pretty much a huge underground Trolley network. :D


Balboa Park, Hillcrest, Pt. Loma, OB, PB, La Jolla, UTC, North Park, Golden Hill, etc. :P

staplesla Sep 26, 2009 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 4475722)
1. Chargers stadium.
2. the Marines leaving Miramar and having it be converted into an international airport.
3. Extend the Trolley lines to the airport (up to Miramar if wish 2 came true), lines running all the way to the Escondido Sprinter station with stops at Rancho Bernardo, Sabre Springs, North County Fair mall, Scripps Ranch, and Mira Mesa, all underground. Extend the trolley line through Mira Mesa (underground) to UTC to connect to the Mid-Coast extension (which also needs to be built). Trolley extended up 5th Avenue to Hillcrest (underground). Pretty much a huge underground Trolley network. :D


Balboa Park, Hillcrest, Pt. Loma, OB, PB, La Jolla, UTC, North Park, Golden Hill, etc. :P

Mine are the exact same.

Fusey Sep 26, 2009 5:06 PM

I agree with the first two on Derek's list, but my 3rd wish would be the removal of all hobos and transport them to some shithole, like Los Angeles (but a better transit system would be a close fourth).

OneMetropolis Sep 26, 2009 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusey (Post 4476089)
I agree with the first two on Derek's list, but my 3rd wish would be the removal of all hobos and transport them to some shithole, like Los Angeles (but a better transit system would be a close fourth).

LA is no shithole and those stupid fanciful wishes of yours are not going to come true anyway so deal with it. The airport will allways be small and crappy and non-expansive and will allways lack international grandeur. It will allways keep downtown from reaching up to the heavens and from expanding beyond it's bondries. The stupid trolley will never expand. While LA is building more subways the trolley expansion will still be going through minor stages of getting approved. The Chargers will most likely leave it's allready obvious, chula vista shunned them Oceanside dosen't want them and Escondido is just a desprerate move that will amount to even more failure. Just face it, I rather see Chargers in LA than this city.

All those shots/pictures of downtown were dull too, they were just boring condo buildings and hotels nothing really to be proud of or admire, no real architecture just generic glass pladding and no real feel. I getting tired of this city so many praise it when there's nothing really wrothy to be praised here. LA right now is headed in a great direction and it's only going to get better for LA. Unlike this city where soon it's appeal will colapse on it's self caving in on it's own pretentiousness and downtown will be too touristy and will lack a real feel like the rest of the city.

Fusey Sep 26, 2009 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis (Post 4476425)
LA is no shithole and those stupid fanciful wishes of yours are not going to come true anyway so deal with it.

It was a joke in regards to another thread. In the meantime, if you love LA so much, you should probably move there and stop being such a whiney bitch.

OneMetropolis Sep 27, 2009 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusey (Post 4476536)
It was a joke in regards to another thread. In the meantime, if you love LA so much, you should probably move there and stop being such a whiney bitch.

I am just giving credit were it's due, and maybe i will move there. Beside this thread needs some pessimistic views anyway everyone on here is to starry eyed and enthusiastic.

tdavis Sep 27, 2009 2:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis (Post 4476425)
LA is no shithole and those stupid fanciful wishes of yours are not going to come true anyway so deal with it. The airport will allways be small and crappy and non-expansive and will allways lack international grandeur. It will allways keep downtown from reaching up to the heavens and from expanding beyond it's bondries. The stupid trolley will never expand. While LA is building more subways the trolley expansion will still be going through minor stages of getting approved. The Chargers will most likely leave it's allready obvious, chula vista shunned them Oceanside dosen't want them and Escondido is just a desprerate move that will amount to even more failure. Just face it, I rather see Chargers in LA than this city.

All those shots/pictures of downtown were dull too, they were just boring condo buildings and hotels nothing really to be proud of or admire, no real architecture just generic glass pladding and no real feel. I getting tired of this city so many praise it when there's nothing really wrothy to be praised here. LA right now is headed in a great direction and it's only going to get better for LA. Unlike this city where soon it's appeal will colapse on it's self caving in on it's own pretentiousness and downtown will be too touristy and will lack a real feel like the rest of the city.

I sure as hell hope you don't serve on any development or transit committees. Your lack of vision and foresight is appalling.

Derek Sep 27, 2009 3:46 AM

Tell us what you really think douchebag. :D

Derek Sep 27, 2009 3:48 AM

The question was if you could do anything, what would you do?



So yeah, it is wishful thinking on our part. God forbid we have hopes and dreams right?


Read the fucking post next time or get the fuck out.

bmfarley Sep 27, 2009 3:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 4475695)
If you had three wishes for SD and they could come true instantly, what would you wish for? What would you have changed and why?

everyone weigh in, that means you mr. voiceofreason.


1. Relocate the airport out of downtown

2. Improve the rail infrastructure (grade separate downtown heavy rail, bring high-speed rail to Santa Fe Depot in a tunnel, relocate the C Street Trolley beneath Broadway, expand the Trolley network to Hillcrest and University Avenue).

3. Have a democratic visionary leadership in charge of local politics

voice of reason Sep 27, 2009 7:05 PM

You negated your points 1&2 by wishing for a democratic (you didnt capitalize, so I assume you didnt mean Democrat Party) leadership. A democratic leadership by definition would represent the wishes of the majority of citizens and your ideas are extreme fringe concepts, not cost effective and not wanted by the majority.

When dreaming utopian dreams, it would be wise to consider that the state, county and city are broke. Why add more costs and institute systems that would require further subsidies?

Keep dreamin......

Fusey Sep 27, 2009 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis (Post 4476647)
I am just giving credit were it's due, and maybe i will move there. Beside this thread needs some pessimistic views anyway everyone on here is to starry eyed and enthusiastic.

Mammone, da quando sei caduta in moto sei un po'sciroccata. :koko:

dl3000 Sep 27, 2009 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis (Post 4476425)
LA is no shithole and those stupid fanciful wishes of yours are not going to come true anyway so deal with it. The airport will allways be small and crappy and non-expansive and will allways lack international grandeur. It will allways keep downtown from reaching up to the heavens and from expanding beyond it's bondries. The stupid trolley will never expand. While LA is building more subways the trolley expansion will still be going through minor stages of getting approved. The Chargers will most likely leave it's allready obvious, chula vista shunned them Oceanside dosen't want them and Escondido is just a desprerate move that will amount to even more failure. Just face it, I rather see Chargers in LA than this city.

All those shots/pictures of downtown were dull too, they were just boring condo buildings and hotels nothing really to be proud of or admire, no real architecture just generic glass pladding and no real feel. I getting tired of this city so many praise it when there's nothing really wrothy to be praised here. LA right now is headed in a great direction and it's only going to get better for LA. Unlike this city where soon it's appeal will colapse on it's self caving in on it's own pretentiousness and downtown will be too touristy and will lack a real feel like the rest of the city.

Sounds like trolling to me.


And Voice of Reason, if you think it is the wishes of all the citizens of San Diego to stagnate in the status quo, this thread would not exist.

As for my wishes, it would be somewhere between Derek's and bmfarley's. In short, new airport, expanded and new transit, underground rail downtown, charger's stadium, new leadership.

voice of reason Sep 28, 2009 12:26 AM

civics lesson needed
 
Students,
In our last lesson we were discussing democratic representation as it applies to San Diego City government.
We learned that in a democracy, which we have a modified version of in the U.S. The citizens voice their desires and then elect representatives to government who kinda-sorta institute programs that represent their constituents. In our imperfect world this is how it works.
There may be some pipe-smokers on the internet who want to spend on things that make perfect sense to them, but not to the majority of citizens. These people cant understand that the things they want are only wanted by them. These people are called kooks and it is better to ignore them.

Class dismissed.

IconRPCV Sep 28, 2009 1:56 AM

1. New stadium for the Chargers somewhere in the county.
2. An international airport at MiraMar
3. A trolley system that actually went places I do besides the occasional football game so I could leave my car in the garage more often.

bmfarley Sep 28, 2009 3:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voice of reason (Post 4477823)
Students,
In our last lesson we were discussing democratic representation as it applies to San Diego City government.
We learned that in a democracy, which we have a modified version of in the U.S. The citizens voice their desires and then elect representatives to government who kinda-sorta institute programs that represent their constituents. In our imperfect world this is how it works.
There may be some pipe-smokers on the internet who want to spend on things that make perfect sense to them, but not to the majority of citizens. These people cant understand that the things they want are only wanted by them. These people are called kooks and it is better to ignore them.

Class dismissed.

Please consider a course in "Reading Comprehension". The premise of the post was to consider three wishes. You failed, go back to school.

kpexpress Sep 28, 2009 8:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voice of reason (Post 4477823)
Students,
In our last lesson we were discussing democratic representation as it applies to San Diego City government.
We learned that in a democracy, which we have a modified version of in the U.S. The citizens voice their desires and then elect representatives to government who kinda-sorta institute programs that represent their constituents. In our imperfect world this is how it works.
There may be some pipe-smokers on the internet who want to spend on things that make perfect sense to them, but not to the majority of citizens. These people cant understand that the things they want are only wanted by them. These people are called kooks and it is better to ignore them.

Class dismissed.

sounds like you just returned from a tea party

kpexpress Sep 28, 2009 8:42 AM

late night pics of the Harbor Drive Pedestrian Bridge. Enjoy.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05649.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05646.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05669.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05670.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05675.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05651.jpg

Fusey Sep 28, 2009 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis (Post 4476647)
Beside this thread needs some pessimistic views anyway everyone on here is to starry eyed and enthusiastic.

Quote:

San Diego losing year-round cruise ship
Carnival shifts home port to Alabama for 2,052-passenger Elation

By Lori Weisberg
Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. September 28, 2009

Come spring, San Diego will lose its only year-round cruise ship and along with it a bevy of bargain excursions to Mexico. Chalk it up as another casualty of the economy.

Carnival Cruise Lines has decided to relocate its 2,052-passenger ship Elation from its home port in San Diego to Mobile, Ala. There it will cruise to Mexican destinations, including Cozumel, off the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula for four- and five-day itineraries.

Although heavy discounting of the trips originating in San Diego was drawing passengers, the revenue fell short of Carnival's expectations for a year-round cruise program, said spokeswoman Jennifer de la Cruz.

“How much revenue we generate on a ship is a huge factor in where we base a ship and in what programs we operate,” de la Cruz said. “This program has been underperforming over a substantial period of time. While onboard revenue is important, more important is the pricing we get for the ticket.”

California's battered economy, which has cut deeply into consumers' willingness to spend money, especially on travel, has driven business down, de la Cruz said.

The cruise line will continue to operate its Spirit ship on a seasonal basis in San Diego. That ship makes eight-day trips to Mexico between October and March.

“The shorter cruises draw mostly drive-in business versus fly-in, and the business we get from the state where the ship is based is very critical to a program's success, so given the state of the economy, particularly in California, we think that's likely a big factor here,” de la Cruz said.

San Diego Unified Port District official Rita Vandergaw said another factor was the sharp drop-off in travel to Mexico, which has suffered from the swine flu scare and an escalation of drug-related violence in Baja California.

The planned departure of the Elation by the end of April is a financial blow to San Diego, given the millions of dollars generated by visiting passengers and the cruise line itself.

A 2005 study conducted by the Port District found that each cruise ship contributes $2 million to the economy. Multiply that by the 78 stops the Elation makes in San Diego during a year, and that's nearly $160 million in lost revenue, said Vandergaw, who manages the cruise program for the Port of San Diego.

“I don't know if people understand how much of an impact it is,” she said. “The passengers spend a lot of money when they're here, and the cruise line spends a lot of money in the area through jobs and services that they purchase, like the longshoreman jobs, the taxicabs, the shuttle services, the suppliers that provide goods to the terminal, the truckers, the florists.

“It's extremely disappointing.”

A bit of good news was the debut last week of Royal Caribbean's Radiance of the Seas, an eight-year-old, 2,500-passenger ship that will be making about 30 round-trip cruises to Mexico from San Diego, starting with four- and five-night trips to the Mexican Riviera through Nov. 16, said spokeswoman Lyan Sierra-Caro.

After that, the ship also will offer longer itineraries of nine to 12 nights through May to such destinations as Acapulco, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan.

“We started this year to be year-round from Los Angeles, so we thought it was important to have another West Coast option with a different itinerary,” Sierra-Caro said. “San Diego is a great source market for us, and it's an easy destination for people to fly into.”

With the departure of the Elation, the port estimates that the number of ships coming into San Diego for long and short cruises will fall to about 200 over the course of a year. Other cruise lines that pull into San Diego include Holland America and Celebrity.

The schedule for the next fiscal year has yet to be finalized, Vandergaw said.

Given the port's dogged efforts to attract new cruise lines, it's a shame to have lost the Elation, said Joe Terzi, president of the San Diego Convention & Visitors Bureau.

“When passengers get off the ships, they're down in the Gaslamp, in the restaurants, Horton Plaza mall. It's a good economic engine,” Terzi said. “It just breathes more life into the waterfront and brings more businesses, so it's something we don't want to see disappear from San Diego.”

That isn't about to happen, said Vandergaw, who is hoping a new $28 million cruise ship terminal now under construction at the Broadway Pier will add some bayside appeal for San Diego.

It will allow one cruise ship to be berthed there, but it will be a far-better space for accommodating cruise lines and their passengers, she said. Vandergaw's hope is that once the building is completed by the end of next year, the Port District would be able to start work on upgrading the much-larger B Street Pier, though a plan has not been approved nor has financing been lined up, she said.

The Port District earlier this year was courting the Walt Disney Co. in hopes of persuading it to bring its planned West Coast cruise operations to San Diego. The Disney Cruise Line ultimately opted for the Los Angeles area.

“You have to have facilities that meet the cruise lines' standards, and the lines have said we don't meet their standards,” Vandergaw said. “Carnival loaned us $12 million to improve our facilities to meet their standards, and we still have a ways to go.

“Losing this business (from Carnival), I think, is cyclical, and it happens when economies contract. I'm confident we'll have the business back.”
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