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milomilo Feb 9, 2018 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One (Post 8078768)
Also, most importantly, for some strange region we don’t have a true federal highway program. This severely limits our ability to build through such regions.

Agreed, the TCH really should be a proper federal road, not a hodge podge of different provincial roads with differing standards. IMO, every city over or approaching 100,000 should be connected to a federal Trans Canada Highway network. It's not fair to put all the burden of building the TCH through the mountains solely onto BC.

240glt Feb 9, 2018 3:52 AM

I wonder if a toll highway would be an option. Golden to Malakwa is about the same distance as Kamloops to Hope on the Coquihalla, Maybe the same approach could be taken. The Coquihalla cut the drive time between the interior and the coast in half. If a similar time savings and the benefits of better safety could be realized on that stretch of the TCH maybe it's a viable option to get it done faster

nname Feb 9, 2018 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipper316 (Post 8077597)
The particular section that I linked is easy to re-do. It's in Sicamous nice and flat.

Nice and flat?

https://goo.gl/maps/ssi5HRBHJ612

That's the bridge they're replacing. Note the bluff ahead... they will need to cut straight through it for all of the options. For some of the options they will be building an interchange over there with the dirt road below.

Dengler Avenue Feb 9, 2018 4:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt (Post 8078970)
I wonder if a toll highway would be an option. Golden to Malakwa is about the same distance as Kamloops to Hope on the Coquihalla, Maybe the same approach could be taken. The Coquihalla cut the drive time between the interior and the coast in half. If a similar time savings and the benefits of better safety could be realized on that stretch of the TCH maybe it's a viable option to get it done faster

IMO the western terminus of the tolled freeway, if ever built, should be near Balmoral. Yes, it will cross Shuswap Lake and completely bypass Sicamous and Salmon Arm.

That then brings out a problem:
(1) Won't the towns along TCH be opposed to such proposal? It's gonna bypass them, and you all know what has happened to those towns on Highway 1 where Coquihalla is an alternative.

(2) The terrain looks very formidable. Also, we have to be careful not to accidentally build into the national parks.

(3) Most importantly, aren't NDP opposed to tolls?? If they eliminated those on Port Mann and Golden Ears, I don't see why they will wanna toll the new freeway.

I don't wanna sound dismissive, but the stack against a tolled freeway is high.

240glt Feb 9, 2018 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8078995)
IMO the western terminus of the tolled freeway, if ever built, should be near Balmoral. Yes, it will cross Shuswap Lake and completely bypass Sicamous and Salmon Arm.

That then brings out a problem:
(1) Won't the towns along TCH be opposed to such proposal? It's gonna bypass them, and you all know what has happened to those towns on Highway 1 where Coquihalla is an alternative.

(2) The terrain looks very formidable. Also, we have to be careful not to accidentally build into the national parks.

(3) Most importantly, aren't NDP opposed to tolls?? If they eliminated those on Port Mann and Golden Ears, I don't see why they will wanna toll the new freeway.

I don't wanna sound dismissive, but the stack against a tolled freeway is high.

I agree the stretch through the Shuswap needs to be addressed but I see a more pressing need through the Selkirks. I think the ideal location for a toll would be right where the old Glacier Lodge used to be, as that would toll those folks using the highway to travel long distances and not punish local municipalities. Folks in Golden already travel to Calgary for big city stuff and people in the Shuswaps go to Vancouver, so you're not really cutting anyone off with a toll road.

The only town really affected would be Revelstoke, and technically it's bypassed already by the highway, and Revelstoke has become much more of a destination than a drive through town over the past decade so I don't think it would affect it substantially.

Terrain is rough yes but so is the terrain on the Coquihalla. Yeah the NDP seems anti-toll, but the government won't be NDP there forever, so who knows.

I'm just musing here, but without the toll highway the Coquihalla probably never would have been built, and at $10 an axle it'd be good motivation to get the project moving, but who knows.

lubicon Feb 9, 2018 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8078337)
Problem is, US is rich and Canada isn't. :(
Remember how the states got a lot of money from WWII? IMO that's why they afforded to build all those fabulous interstates.
Also, for going through the Rockies, don't forget about I-90. ;)

There is money, we just choose not to spend on roads and rather spend on other things instead. It's all about choices and politicians make the priority getting re-elected which for them means spending money on other things rather than basic infrastructure. Which is ironic because that is what grows the economy and allows for even greater revenue for governments.

And the population density argument holds no water. The western U.S. is sparsely settled in many areas and there are multiple interstate highways running through these areas. It's about connecting major population centres together, not about the small towns along the way.

Dengler Avenue Feb 9, 2018 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt (Post 8079366)
I agree the stretch through the Shuswap needs to be addressed but I see a more pressing need through the Selkirks. I think the ideal location for a toll would be right where the old Glacier Lodge used to be, as that would toll those folks using the highway to travel long distances and not punish local municipalities. Folks in Golden already travel to Calgary for big city stuff and people in the Shuswaps go to Vancouver, so you're not really cutting anyone off with a toll road.

The only town really affected would be Revelstoke, and technically it's bypassed already by the highway, and Revelstoke has become much more of a destination than a drive through town over the past decade so I don't think it would affect it substantially.

Terrain is rough yes but so is the terrain on the Coquihalla. Yeah the NDP seems anti-toll, but the government won't be NDP there forever, so who knows.

I'm just musing here, but without the toll highway the Coquihalla probably never would have been built, and at $10 an axle it'd be good motivation to get the project moving, but who knows.

Hmm interesting points...
I have a question about tolls though: Why did the tolls for Coquihalla pay for itself, while those for Port Mann Bridge and Golden Ears Bridge did not? Poor management? I heard both projects were handled by the liberals. (Is that true?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 8079635)
There is money, we just choose not to spend on roads and rather spend on other things instead. It's all about choices and politicians make the priority getting re-elected which for them means spending money on other things rather than basic infrastructure. Which is ironic because that is what grows the economy and allows for even greater revenue for governments.

And the population density argument holds no water. The western U.S. is sparsely settled in many areas and there are multiple interstate highways running through these areas. It's about connecting major population centres together, not about the small towns along the way.

Yea it's very sad to see the lack of political will to make TCH a proper 4-lane freeway. It's not just in BC, but also elsewhere, like Ontario (where Queens Park doesn't seem to care except for certain segments, i.e. between Thunder Bay and Nipigon where the bridge broke 2 years ago), Newfoundland.

240glt Feb 9, 2018 7:48 PM

Quote:

I have a question about tolls though: Why did the tolls for Coquihalla pay for itself, while those for Port Mann Bridge and Golden Ears Bridge did not? Poor management? I heard both projects were handled by the liberals. (Is that true?)
The Coquihalla was commissioned by the Social Credit government. The Coquihalla didn't really pay for itself, the first leg from Merritt to Hope cost 1 billion in 1986 dollars and I believe they re-couped $845 million before they removed the toll in '08. But the tolls did recoup a significant amount of money.

I have no idea what happened with the bridges, I hadn't really been paying attention. But those bridges aren't that old, I'd assume it takes a while to recoup those kinds of dollars

Metro-One Feb 10, 2018 2:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8079709)
Hmm interesting points...
I have a question about tolls though: Why did the tolls for Coquihalla pay for itself, while those for Port Mann Bridge and Golden Ears Bridge did not? Poor management? I heard both projects were handled by the liberals. (Is that true?)



Yea it's very sad to see the lack of political will to make TCH a proper 4-lane freeway. It's not just in BC, but also elsewhere, like Ontario (where Queens Park doesn't seem to care except for certain segments, i.e. between Thunder Bay and Nipigon where the bridge broke 2 years ago), Newfoundland.

Those tolls were removed last year by the NDP, simply because they promised to do so during the election, it was just a political ploy.

Dengler Avenue Feb 10, 2018 4:53 AM

Something just occurred to me. Could it be that, since NDP needs Green Party's support (and the latter is staunchly environmentalistic), the former can only do so little in terms of highway 1 twinning?
I'm just conjecturing, by the way. ;)

So far the only news that I have heard is twinning in Yoho and twinning the bridge leading into Sicamous.

Metro-One Feb 10, 2018 5:56 AM

Twinning around Chase is starting, and it will involve interchanges.

craner Feb 10, 2018 8:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8078991)
Nice and flat?

https://goo.gl/maps/ssi5HRBHJ612

That's the bridge they're replacing. Note the bluff ahead... they will need to cut straight through it for all of the options. For some of the options they will be building an interchange over there with the dirt road below.

Hard to beleive this is our national highway - how embarassing and pathetic.

Dengler Avenue Feb 10, 2018 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner (Post 8080534)
Hard to beleive this is our national highway - how embarassing and pathetic.

Speaking of the terrain on Highway 1, why has the decision always been to twin 1 instead of 16? The latter seems to have easier terrain.

craner Feb 12, 2018 4:35 AM

^ I assume it's because #1 is more the "main" highway, more direct routing, higher traffic count, etc.

nname Feb 13, 2018 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner (Post 8080534)
Hard to beleive this is our national highway - how embarassing and pathetic.

At least that is better than some sections of Australian national highway :D

https://goo.gl/maps/JNcoW2aRmat

240glt Feb 14, 2018 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8080601)
Speaking of the terrain on Highway 1, why has the decision always been to twin 1 instead of 16? The latter seems to have easier terrain.

16 is just not as important or busy a highway. The port in Prince Rupert is getting busier but still doesn't justify twinning the stretch from the coast to the AB border.

A case could be made for twinning segments of hwy 5 between Kamloops and Robson, given the industrial traffic moving goods to the oil sands, but the vast majority of the trade and tourist traffic runs on the #1

Airboy Feb 14, 2018 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt (Post 8085220)
16 is just not as important or busy a highway. The port in Prince Rupert is getting busier but still doesn't justify twinning the stretch from the coast to the AB border.

A case could be made for twinning segments of hwy 5 between Kamloops and Robson, given the industrial traffic moving goods to the oil sands, but the vast majority of the trade and tourist traffic runs on the #1

Upgrading the Drive from Kamloops to Clearwater would do wonders for that road. Adding more passing lanes and twinning the road form the Jasper East gate to the boarder would speed things up.

Most of the drive would be easy and relatively cheap to upgrade.

240glt Feb 14, 2018 7:31 PM

Yes there are ample areas where passing lanes could be added, and the road twinned in many spots. Overall I don't find the traffic too bad on 5, but I always try to time it so I'm not driving out on Friday afternoon or coming back on a Sunday.

The bane of that trip is the amount of truck traffic, but since the oil prices collapsed it hasn't been that busy, but has picked up recently, and also the rental RV's. Whenever I come around a corner and see a Canadream going 20 under with 30 cars behind it I know I'm in for a task trying to pass all of them. That's the other thing.. people are scared to pass but will ride each other's bumpers so that no one else can pass. I gave up trying to be polite, I just cut in when I need to and make the tailgaters slam on their brakes

Dengler Avenue Feb 22, 2018 5:10 AM

Did the provincial budget mention anything about twinning Highway 1? I couldn’t seem to find it (or perhaps I was just bad at looking stuff up). Also, Massey Tunnel replacement wasn’t in the plan.

Metro-One Feb 22, 2018 5:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8094488)
Did the provincial budget mention anything about twinning Highway 1? I couldn’t seem to find it (or perhaps I was just bad at looking stuff up). Also, Massey Tunnel replacement wasn’t in the plan.

The NDP campaigned on halting the project for “review.” No one was ever expecting it to be in the budget.

Consider it dormant / dead for now.

Also outside of pre announced projects (twinning near Chase and the the Kicking Horse canyon) I wouldn’t expect any major highway projects from this government.


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