SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

JHikka Feb 24, 2019 7:36 PM

Keeping on topic with items that aren't Canadian:

For NHL fans who might want fewer outdoor games, PIT/PHI did really well on NBC last night. Via NBCPR:

Last night’s #StadiumSeries overtime thriller between the @penguins and @NHLFlyers on NBC was the most-watched Stadium Series game since 2014, producing a 1.38 overnight rating; up 17% from the same matchup in 2017.

Saturday night’s #StadiumSeries game on NBC delivered the highest local ratings ever in the Pittsburgh (16.9) and Philadelphia (6.3) markets for any Penguins or Flyers regular-season games, excluding Winter Classics.


Also, 70K people showed up, so that's something. My quick math says that a 16.9 in Pittsburgh is roughly 190K TVs and a 6.3 in Philadelphia is roughly 200K TVs.

esquire Feb 25, 2019 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8485437)
There was a funny quote on twitter, "Nobody's watching, nobody's listening, nobody cares" will be the title of the ESPN 30 for 30 doc next year.

In all seriousness, a spring league could make it if the owners didn't want to be NFL wannabees. The USFL had a decent shot at it until a guy named Donald Trump came along. Never underestimate people's penchant for greed.

The fundamental mistake that so many of these upstart leagues are making is assuming that they can make enough people care right away to put large crowds in the stadiums and get a lucrative broadcasting deal right from day one.

Even the NFL didn't become the NFL overnight. It was second fiddle to college football probably until about the 60s. And even in the 60s, games with attendances under 20,000 were still very common.

esquire Feb 25, 2019 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8485517)
Keeping on topic with items that aren't Canadian:

For NHL fans who might want fewer outdoor games, PIT/PHI did really well on NBC last night.

I wouldn't call myself a NHL fan who wants fewer outdoor games, I'm just surprised at the willingness of fans to constantly lap them up, particularly in person where you're paying a stiff premium for a lousy view and a game where there's a strong chance that the conditions will worsen the quality of play.

But yeah, if you can pack the joint with 70,000 people and get a bunch more than usual watching on TV, then that guarantees the stadium games will continue to be a frequent sideshow on the NHL schedule.

Berklon Feb 25, 2019 9:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8486144)
The fundamental mistake that so many of these upstart leagues are making is assuming that they can make enough people care right away to put large crowds in the stadiums and get a lucrative broadcasting deal right from day one.

I think one problem is that they assumed people are starving for more football once the Super Bowl is over. After months of NCAA and the NFL, I think football fans want a bit of a break from it. Week 1 of the AAF started the very next weekend after the SB. To me that feels way too soon. They should wait at least 1 month. I know they want a whole month without competing with baseball, but if people are starving for football - they'd go to it regardless.

In any case, I think this will ultimately tell us if Americans think the NCAA and NFL are enough to satisfy their football craving, or if they want more. If this fails, even with the backing of the NFL, it would be sheer stupidity to make any other attempts for another league.

isaidso Feb 26, 2019 2:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8486144)

Even the NFL didn't become the NFL overnight. It was second fiddle to college football probably until about the 60s. And even in the 60s, games with attendances under 20,000 were still very common.

Believe it or not even the University of Toronto had higher average attendance than the NFL at one point. It was only a tad higher but still.

suburbanite Feb 26, 2019 2:57 AM

Saw that the Spurs/Raps game this weekend was the most-watched regular season game ever in Canada. Average of 710,000 and a total 2.5 million unique viewers.

JHikka Feb 26, 2019 1:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8487286)
Saw that the Spurs/Raps game this weekend was the most-watched regular season game ever in Canada. Average of 710,000 and a total 2.5 million unique viewers.

That's a big jump. Kawhi's debut with the team set the record at 528K earlier in the season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSN
Here in Canada, viewership for the first three games aired on TSN this season is up 67 per cent over the first three games the station aired last year. Last Wednesday's season-opening win over Cleveland was the most-watched Raptors regular season game ever on TSN with 528,000 viewers.

https://www.tsn.ca/leonard-making-ra...e-tv-1.1198256

osmo Feb 26, 2019 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8486796)
I think one problem is that they assumed people are starving for more football once the Super Bowl is over. After months of NCAA and the NFL, I think football fans want a bit of a break from it. Week 1 of the AAF started the very next weekend after the SB. To me that feels way too soon. They should wait at least 1 month. I know they want a whole month without competing with baseball, but if people are starving for football - they'd go to it regardless.

In any case, I think this will ultimately tell us if Americans think the NCAA and NFL are enough to satisfy their football craving, or if they want more. If this fails, even with the backing of the NFL, it would be sheer stupidity to make any other attempts for another league.

This is just your assumption and opinion as American interest and appetite before football still has room. Silly to think two upstart leagues didn't do thier homework. Both AAF and XFL recognized there is still (as crazy as it sounds) more demand for football. Replays of old games on NFL network still gets better ratings than many scripted shows. Football and it's connection tonAnerica makes no sense, it is thier equivalent to Canadian the obsession with hockey.

My bet is one of the two upstart leagues will survive and thrive, not sure who it will be but we will see with time.

Berklon Feb 26, 2019 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8487608)
This is just your assumption and opinion as American interest and appetite before football still has room. Silly to think two upstart leagues didn't do thier homework. Both AAF and XFL recognized there is still (as crazy as it sounds) more demand for football. Replays of old games on NFL network still gets better ratings than many scripted shows.

Right, replays of old NFL games are getting good ratings.
Americans may still have an appetite for more football, but that just might mean they want more NCAA and NFL (ie. more games + more teams). It doesn't necessarily mean they want more football from a different league.

There's been a history of failed football leagues in the US after all.

It's still way too early to determine either way, so maybe one of the leagues will succeed. But if none of them do, I have to believe that will answer the question as to whether there's enough interest in pro football outside the NCAA and NFL.

JHikka Feb 26, 2019 7:54 PM

Via TSNPR:

Yesterday, @TSN_Sports #TradeCentre coverage attracted an average audience of 143,000 viewers, 61% higher than its closest competitor. The 10-hour special reached a total of 1.9 million unique Canadian viewers, an increase of 5% from last year.

TSN digital platforms recorded over 3 million video starts on #TradeCentre, more than doubling the network’s previous single-day record, as well as 11 million page views, including more than 880,000 on the Trade Deadline Blog alone.

TSN’s #TradeCentre posts generated more than 16 million impressions on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook throughout the day.

osmo Feb 26, 2019 8:25 PM

^^^^^

Gross. So again, we will continue to see the TradeCentre/TradeDeadline Day coverage hype continue. I never understood who would sit and watch trade day programming when with the internet and your smartphone you get updates and find analysis very quickly for these sort of events. The hype machine for Trade Day for the NHL is one of my least favourite things about Canadian sports television.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8487867)
Right, replays of old NFL games are getting good ratings.
Americans may still have an appetite for more football, but that just might mean they want more NCAA and NFL (ie. more games + more teams). It doesn't necessarily mean they want more football from a different league.

There's been a history of failed football leagues in the US after all.

It's still way too early to determine either way, so maybe one of the leagues will succeed. But if none of them do, I have to believe that will answer the question as to whether there's enough interest in pro football outside the NCAA and NFL.

There obviously is, since as we have this discussion there are 3-4 other leagues being planned for the USA to start playing football in 2020/2021. Again, if there was no demand for football as you claim why are so many leagues looking to startup?


AFC was successful USFL was widely successful and on the path to normally up until Trump steered them to the league's death.

WFL, sure it was a failure, largely because the Toronto Northmen ownership blew up salaries all before the Govt stepped in and stamped them out to protect the CFL.

Again, we as Canadians don't grasp the depth of love for football in America. You spend time in some of the parts of Texas and such where it is a religion and it really makes no sense.

Also, I don't agree that Americans lust for NFL football. NFL is just the biggest player in town but many Americans are not satisfied with that product but consume it for lack of other options. Thus, why so many startups are taking advantage in trying to carve out a niche in presenting new football product for Americans.

esquire Feb 26, 2019 8:45 PM

^ Viewership is cumulatively high but I doubt it's very long. I would think most people flip to TSN, watch the ticker for a few minutes to see whether there are any big developments and carry on.

Personally, I find apps like The Score or Twitter much better suited to tracking that stuff. The idea of sitting there watching TV waiting for news to break is straight out of the 80s.

JHikka Feb 26, 2019 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8488197)
^ Viewership is cumulatively high but I doubt it's very long. I would think most people flip to TSN, watch the ticker for a few minutes to see whether there are any big developments and carry on.

Personally, I find apps like The Score or Twitter much better suited to tracking that stuff. The idea of sitting there watching TV waiting for news to break is straight out of the 80s.

Indeed. Trade Day usually means i'm on Twitter scanning through feeds and seeing what's going on. I haven't actually watched a trade deadline on TV in probably five or six years.

143K average over 10 hours would likely be better than whatever else they would be showing through the day (Lumberjack sports? ESPN talking heads?) but i'm curious what the average was between 1-3PM or 2-3PM when Stone was being moved. Obviously the big figures for them are the online and mobile activations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo
Thus, why so many startups are taking advantage in trying to carve out a niche in presenting new football product for Americans.

This entire conversation is outside the realm of this thread as it exclusively pertains to American sport but I will note that new football leagues in the US are not contained to just AAF and XFL - two interesting startups are the American Flag Football League and Pacific Pro Football.

The former is, of course, a flag football league featuring many former NFLers and is picking up some decent steam. The latter is a new venture in California which looks to provide a place for high school graduates (who aren't going to school) a place to play and get paid. Offering an option for immediate pay at 18 or 19. Compensation would include potential tuition, injury-liability, etc.

elly63 Feb 27, 2019 10:50 PM

CFL, USports working to realign Grey Cup and Vanier Cup
3Down Staff February 27, 2019

The Grey Cup and Vanier Cup could be getting back together.

The CFL championship and Canadian university football national title games haven’t been played in the same city since 2011 and 2012. The two events were paired in 2007 and 1973, both in Toronto.

CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie has been working with USports CEO Graham Brown on a reunion of sorts.

“We’ve been talking about how we come together. If you look at the analysis of all the strongest pro sports in the world, they have a correspondingly very strong amateur football system and we can never reach the full potential of the Canadian Football League until we reach the full potential of USports,” Ambrosie said on CKRM The SportsCage.

“Graham and I and all of the USports community are talking about realigning Grey Cup and the Vanier Cup because we know that’s a winning formula. It’s something that we really need to focus on and make sure that we’re working together to help strengthen our university sports, the cascading effect of that is going to be a positive effect on amateur football in this country. And that’s something that we absolutely have to be dedicated to.”

The all-time Vanier Cup attendance record was set in 2012 at Rogers Centre when 37,098 watched Laval beat McMaster a rematch of the epic double overtime thriller from 2011 that the Marauders won 41-38.

The Vanier Cup is booked for Quebec City (2019) while the CFL has Calgary set (2019) and awarded the Grey Cups to Regina (2020) and Hamilton (2021.)

Holding the Vanier Cup in Quebec City has been an easy fallback option for USports because of the support in the city for football powerhouse Laval. If USports could find a way to move it for 2019 and link the Vanier Cup with the Grey Cup, that would be a win.

VANRIDERFAN Feb 28, 2019 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8489738)
CFL, USports working to realign Grey Cup and Vanier Cup
3Down Staff February 27, 2019

The Grey Cup and Vanier Cup could be getting back together.

The CFL championship and Canadian university football national title games haven’t been played in the same city since 2011 and 2012. The two events were paired in 2007 and 1973, both in Toronto.

CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie has been working with USports CEO Graham Brown on a reunion of sorts.

“We’ve been talking about how we come together. If you look at the analysis of all the strongest pro sports in the world, they have a correspondingly very strong amateur football system and we can never reach the full potential of the Canadian Football League until we reach the full potential of USports,” Ambrosie said on CKRM The SportsCage.

“Graham and I and all of the USports community are talking about realigning Grey Cup and the Vanier Cup because we know that’s a winning formula. It’s something that we really need to focus on and make sure that we’re working together to help strengthen our university sports, the cascading effect of that is going to be a positive effect on amateur football in this country. And that’s something that we absolutely have to be dedicated to.”

The all-time Vanier Cup attendance record was set in 2012 at Rogers Centre when 37,098 watched Laval beat McMaster a rematch of the epic double overtime thriller from 2011 that the Marauders won 41-38.

The Vanier Cup is booked for Quebec City (2019) while the CFL has Calgary set (2019) and awarded the Grey Cups to Regina (2020) and Hamilton (2021.)

Holding the Vanier Cup in Quebec City has been an easy fallback option for USports because of the support in the city for football powerhouse Laval. If USports could find a way to move it for 2019 and link the Vanier Cup with the Grey Cup, that would be a win.

Great news!

elly63 Feb 28, 2019 2:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8489738)
CFL, USports working to realign Grey Cup and Vanier Cup
3Down Staff February 27, 2019

The all-time Vanier Cup attendance record was set in 2012 at Rogers Centre when 37,098 watched Laval beat McMaster a rematch of the epic double overtime thriller from 2011 that the Marauders won 41-38.

Blast from the past

Best Game Ever - The 2011 McMaster Football Season

isaidso Feb 28, 2019 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN (Post 8489855)
Great news!

+1

It made little sense to separate them. One more wish is for the game to revert to its old name: The College Bowl. They could still keep the name of the trophy the Vanier Cup.

jonny24 Mar 2, 2019 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8490950)
+1

It made little sense to separate them. One more wish is for the game to revert to its old name: The College Bowl. They could still keep the name of the trophy the Vanier Cup.

Hmm.... I'd be against that. Don't know how old you are, but I'm 25 and never heard of the College Bowl, only ever the Vanier Cup. Sounds like something American... They got bowls, we got Cups! Stanley, Grey, Vanier, Memorial, Allan, MacTier, McCormack... Cups are better! :cheers:


Edit: of course I'm hugely in favour of combining the Vanier and Grey Cups again, it's only logical. Hope they get it done for the Hamilton GC in 2021.

isaidso Mar 2, 2019 3:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny24 (Post 8491752)
Hmm.... I'd be against that. Don't know how old you are, but I'm 25 and never heard of the College Bowl, only ever the Vanier Cup. Sounds like something American... They got bowls, we got Cups! Stanley, Grey, Vanier, Memorial, Allan, MacTier, McCormack... Cups are better! :cheers:

I'm Generation X. I've only ever known the Vanier Cup too but 'College Bowl' is what it was originally called. I don't like when people mess with history and tradition. People who don't know about our history aren't going to value it ....but that's no excuse.

Big football games have always been known as bowl games. It's not country specific. Beside the Vanier Cup originally being the College Bowl, both semi-finals are bowl games. Even in the pros we affectionately label memorable football games using the word bowl: Banjo Bowl, Mud Bowl, Ice Bowl, Fog Bowl, etc. I didn't like the Atlantic Bowl being renamed either. I liked Larry Uteck and it was a nice gesture but the wrong way to honour him.

Btw, none of your examples are football except the Grey Cup.

osmo Mar 2, 2019 6:47 AM

I'm trying to remember the reason exactly CIS\USports split away the combination VC\GC? Was it because that GC overshadowed too much?


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:29 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.