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hollywoodcory Jul 9, 2021 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9334974)
YEG and YWG both have Swoop. Wise to avoid direct competition with WestJet's flanker brand in as many places as possible. Looks like YYZ-SFB, YYZ-AZA and YYZ-LAS are the only routes F8 will directly compete on with W0.

But it also means they'll go head to head with WS mainline on routes like YYC-LAS/AZA. Vegas and Phoenix are pretty dominated by WS (Not to mention AC also flies to LAS and PHX too).

I do get it, as they know WS will not have Swoop replace any of their YYC or YVR-Transborder routes, so they can be the sole low-carrier to fly to those places. I'm happy to see more competition and see Flair thriving.

What are the odds WS will pull something petty and add YYC-BUR of their own? I wouldn't put it past them, but would hope they keep their focus at LAX/SNA.

YYCguys Jul 9, 2021 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9335277)
But it also means they'll go head to head with WS mainline on routes like YYC-LAS/AZA. Vegas and Phoenix are pretty dominated by WS (Not to mention AC also flies to LAS and PHX too).

I do get it, as they know WS will not have Swoop replace any of their YYC or YVR-Transborder routes, so they can be the sole low-carrier to fly to those places. I'm happy to see more competition and see Flair thriving.

What are the odds WS will pull something petty and add YYC-BUR of their own? I wouldn't put it past them, but would hope they keep their focus at LAX/SNA.

What is the largest aircraft that BUR can handle? And given that BUR is boxed in by residential on all sides, are there any landing/take off curfews or restrictions?

hollywoodcory Jul 9, 2021 3:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9335345)
What is the largest aircraft that BUR can handle? And given that BUR is boxed in by residential on all sides, are there any landing/take off curfews or restrictions?

Based on its scheduled departures I'm seeing a lot of 737/320 and even 1 757 so it looks like it can handle most aircraft types.

As for landing/take off curfews, its website says between the hours of 10pm and 7am no "noisy" aircraft are prohibited.

https://hollywoodburbankairport.com/.../noise-issues/

Dominion301 Jul 9, 2021 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9335277)
But it also means they'll go head to head with WS mainline on routes like YYC-LAS/AZA. Vegas and Phoenix are pretty dominated by WS (Not to mention AC also flies to LAS and PHX too).

I do get it, as they know WS will not have Swoop replace any of their YYC or YVR-Transborder routes, so they can be the sole low-carrier to fly to those places. I'm happy to see more competition and see Flair thriving.

What are the odds WS will pull something petty and add YYC-BUR of their own? I wouldn't put it past them, but would hope they keep their focus at LAX/SNA.

I wouldn't put it past WS. They've been petty like that plenty of times in the past. Although whenever they've done it historically, they were gushing cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9335406)
Based on its scheduled departures I'm seeing a lot of 737/320 and even 1 757 so it looks like it can handle most aircraft types.

As for landing/take off curfews, its website says between the hours of 10pm and 7am no "noisy" aircraft are prohibited.

https://hollywoodburbankairport.com/.../noise-issues/

Indeed and I believe arrivals are permitted until midnight. Also, the BUR curfew is a soft curfew vs the hard curfew at LGB where B6 would get fined all the time. In other words, late arrivals or departures due to IROPS are permitted at BUR. For example, last night WN1482 from LAS arrived at 00:03.

BUR used to be a big overnight hub for Ameriflight...back in the days of transporting paper cheques! Hence the 'noisy' caveat. All those B99s and SWMs were okay. :tup: AMF still have a handful of departures out of BUR...usually still during curfew.

As for aircraft types, pax wise, I believe the 757 is the largest that the airport can handle, but on the freighter side, A300s are common. Both UPS and FX fly them to BUR...and they arrive during curfew hours.

hollywoodcory Jul 9, 2021 5:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9335778)
I wouldn't put it past WS. They've been petty like that plenty of times in the past. Although whenever they've done it historically, they were gushing cash.

Indeed and I believe arrivals are permitted until midnight. Also, the BUR curfew is a soft curfew vs the hard curfew at LGB where B6 would get fined all the time. In other words, late arrivals or departures due to IROPS are permitted at BUR. For example, last night WN1482 from LAS arrived at 00:03.

BUR used to be a big overnight hub for Ameriflight...back in the days of transporting paper cheques! Hence the 'noisy' caveat. All those B99s and SWMs were okay. :tup: AMF still have a handful of departures out of BUR...usually still during curfew.

As for aircraft types, pax wise, I believe the 757 is the largest that the airport can handle, but on the freighter side, A300s are common. Both UPS and FX fly them to BUR...and they arrive during curfew hours.

That's true, but it seems like were slowly getting back to the times where airlines launched money-losing routes to 'stick it' to their competition. I'm just hoping that given WS already well serves the LA region at both LAX and SNA they don't see a need to add BUR as well. I'm happy Flair isn't imitated by the big guys and giving travelers a lower costing option.

The PHX/AZA flights will probably be fine. Last winter, YYC had 3 airlines fly to PHX and all had good loads.

I've used BUR in the past, and its a good airport if your destination is in the valley (or even Universal Studios) but if your headed to downtown LA, the beaches or Orange County (Disneyland) LAX is far better connected to those. I remember it taking over 90 minutes to commute from BUR Airport to Pasadena but LAX has express buses that take you straight to Union Station and cuts that travel time by over half.

Dominion301 Jul 10, 2021 3:28 PM

Harbour Air's electric flight testing continues to progress well. They've now reached 29 minutes of flying time with their latest test flights. That's more than enough for the Vancouver-Nanaimo and Vancouver-Victoria hops.

Target for first revenue all-electric flights is 2023: https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/h...ghts-1.5501756

hollywoodcory Jul 10, 2021 6:43 PM

WS' revised August schedule is pretty ambitious to say the least.

New:
YYC-AMS (From Aug 5)

Resuming:
YYC-CDG (From Aug 20)
YYZ-NAS (From Aug 8)
YYZ-BNA (From Aug 5)
YVR-LGW (From Aug 7)
YVR-HNL (From Aug 7)
YVR-LAX (From Aug 6)

YYC-ATL/LAX/PHX are all increased to daily.
YYC-LAS is up to 11x weekly.

Looking briefly at domestic I'm seeing some evening YYC departures to YOW and YUL with morning returns.

YYC/YVR-YYZ seems to be slowly edging back to pre-COVID levels.

BenYOW Jul 12, 2021 2:12 PM

The Porter Airlines Embraer E195-E2 rumours have been confirmed:
  • Up to 80 new E195-E2 aircraft
  • Routes from Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax, and Toronto Pearson
  • Aircraft deliveries beginning in mid-2022

Twitter
Quote:

BIG NEWS: Porter is extending its award-winning service to destinations throughout North America with the introduction of up to 80 state-of-the-art, fuel-efficient
@embraer
E195-E2 aircraft into its fleet!
Porter Airlines Website
Quote:

Fly with us throughout North America in our new planes
The Porter flying refined service that you already love is extending - to dozens of popular destinations throughout North America. We’re excited that up to 80 brand new state-of-the-art, fuel-efficient Embraer E195-E2 aircraft will be added to our fleet to take you to these new destinations.

We are planning to fly our new jets from Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax and Toronto Pearson International Airport, giving you more travel options with us. Destinations will include the west coast, and sunny spots in the southern United States, Mexico and the Caribbean. Our initial set of new routes will be finalized ahead of aircraft deliveries in mid-2022. We look forward to sharing them with you!

You can continue to count on our convenience of Toronto’s downtown Billy Bishop Airport. We will carry on serving you on our regional routes with our De Havilland Dash 8-400 aircraft from our city centre hub.

Embraer E195-E2
Advanced technology from Canada’s aerospace companies are key components of our new Embraer E195-E2, which are the most environmentally-friendly single-aisle aircraft. They are up to 65% quieter and up to 25% cleaner than previous-generation aircraft.

The plane’s interior complements our traditional service, with a passenger-focused design emphasizing space and comfort. Features include only aisle or window seating for every passenger, with no middle seats, plus large overhead bins and windows, and cabin mood lighting.
https://i.imgur.com/jvhrKXy.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/zsTpJBx.jpg?1

Dominion301 Jul 12, 2021 2:27 PM

Fantastic news to hear Porter are in it for the long-haul and will be flying transcons.

Routes like YOW-LAX, YOW-SFO and YOW-PHX (F8 might beat them to that to AZA) might finally become a reality as the right sized aircraft for said routes finally exist, especially with some eastern connecting traffic. Hopefully it also leads to the re-establishment some city pairs like YOW-YQR and YOW-YXE.

Glad to see DH4 ops will continue at YTZ...but you have to wonder if they might shrink YTZ a bit. Instead of 16-18x to YOW and YUL, maybe going forward it'll be 12-14x in 5 years' time? This is also a defensive move against Via Rail's HFR that now looks like it'll become a reality around 2030, which will eat into YOW-YTZ, their currently biggest route.

Quote:

The ability to convert purchase rights to smaller E190-E2s is included in the agreement.

thewave46 Jul 12, 2021 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW (Post 9337594)
The Porter Airlines Embraer E195-E2 rumours have been confirmed:
  • Up to 80 new E195-E2 aircraft
  • Routes from Ottawa, Montreal, Halifax, and Toronto Pearson
  • Aircraft deliveries beginning in mid-2022

A bold move for Porter. Going toe-to-toe with the big boys on their turf using a new-to-them airplane. They must have received a screaming deal on it, as Embraer isn't having much success selling them.

My real question is now this: How does the Canadian aviation market shake out in the next few years?

We've Flair, Rouge and Swoop duking it out for the ULCC passenger.

Air Transat, Sunwing and Rouge are aiming for the sun/leisure vacationers.

Now, it's Air Canada, Westjet and Porter going for mainline.

I can't see everybody surviving it. It's great while it lasts (and maybe I'd buy a ticket for the right price and not too far in advance), but I think Porter just pulled a Bombardier-esqe move here. It's one thing to be Westjet and swoop (see what I did there) in as Air Canada was having problems absorbing Canadian Airlines, but picking a fight with the big boys when they're strong isn't the wisest tactic.

Definitely have the popcorn out.

Innsertnamehere Jul 12, 2021 2:36 PM

Perhaps the Canadian Air market is finally large enough for 3 airlines to comfortably operate. This country is a lot bigger and a lot more likely to fly than 20-30 years ago.

The pandemic and how long it takes for traffic to return is of course the big question.

Dominion301 Jul 12, 2021 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9336719)
WS' revised August schedule is pretty ambitious to say the least.

New:
YYC-AMS (From Aug 5)

Resuming:
YYC-CDG (From Aug 20)
YYZ-NAS (From Aug 8)
YYZ-BNA (From Aug 5)
YVR-LGW (From Aug 7)
YVR-HNL (From Aug 7)
YVR-LAX (From Aug 6)

YYC-ATL/LAX/PHX are all increased to daily.
YYC-LAS is up to 11x weekly.

Looking briefly at domestic I'm seeing some evening YYC departures to YOW and YUL with morning returns.

YYC/YVR-YYZ seems to be slowly edging back to pre-COVID levels.

Some other domestic routes include the return of YOW-YWG, which will be 3x weekly and YOW-YVR increasing on most days of the week to 2x daily.

Innsertnamehere Jul 12, 2021 2:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9336719)
WS' revised August schedule is pretty ambitious to say the least.

New:
YYC-AMS (From Aug 5)

Resuming:
YYC-CDG (From Aug 20)
YYZ-NAS (From Aug 8)
YYZ-BNA (From Aug 5)
YVR-LGW (From Aug 7)
YVR-HNL (From Aug 7)
YVR-LAX (From Aug 6)

YYC-ATL/LAX/PHX are all increased to daily.
YYC-LAS is up to 11x weekly.

Looking briefly at domestic I'm seeing some evening YYC departures to YOW and YUL with morning returns.

YYC/YVR-YYZ seems to be slowly edging back to pre-COVID levels.

Really seems to be making a bet that travel restrictions will indeed drop on July 21, at least for vaccinated individuals. We will have to see still. I'm sure we will be hearing very soon on that matter.

Dominion301 Jul 12, 2021 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9337624)
Really seems to be making a bet that travel restrictions will indeed drop on July 21, at least for vaccinated individuals. We will have to see still. I'm sure we will be hearing very soon on that matter.

It's definitely ambitious with the USA's 5th wave of COVID just getting underway. This one fuelled by the Delta variant.

hollywoodcory Jul 12, 2021 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9337624)
Really seems to be making a bet that travel restrictions will indeed drop on July 21, at least for vaccinated individuals. We will have to see still. I'm sure we will be hearing very soon on that matter.

They are seeing pretty decent advance bookings at least to the US. The Europe flights are so-so.

Based on this, all bets are apparently on Vegas as they'll have up to 19x weekly total flights.

10x weekly from YYC
4x weekly from YVR
5x weekly from YYZ

Here's the full International schedule through September 7th:
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flight...ional-schedule

And domestic:
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flights/domestic-schedule

thenoflyzone Jul 12, 2021 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9337616)
Fantastic news to hear Porter are in it for the long-haul and will be flying transcons.

Routes like YOW-LAX, YOW-SFO and YOW-PHX (F8 might beat them to that to AZA) might finally become a reality as the right sized aircraft for said routes finally exist, especially with some eastern connecting traffic.

I dont know. Range on the E195-E2 is a bit tight for those routes on the westbound leg. Definitely not doable without a payload hit in winter. Summertime, it might be doable, but it's tight. This is where the 1000nm extra range of the A220-300 vs the E195 would have come in handy ! That's over 2 hours of flying time !

I think YYZ-California (and west coast Canada-California, obviously) is a safer bet for Porter. Even from Toronto, according to the Porter range map below, YYZ-LAX is close to the edge.

https://www.flyporter.com/Content/Im...rsion=8.8.0.1a

thewave46 Jul 12, 2021 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9337622)
Perhaps the Canadian Air market is finally large enough for 3 airlines to comfortably operate. This country is a lot bigger and a lot more likely to fly than 20-30 years ago.

The pandemic and how long it takes for traffic to return is of course the big question.

As a contrast it's interesting to see that the world's largest aviation market to the south of us coalesced from many airlines into 4 major ones plus a couple of minor ones in the last decade.

I wish Porter well, as shakeups are good for industry and customers. I just can't see everyone coming out of it though - the US airlines were notorious for competing ruthlessly enough with each other to bleed everyone out until a wave of mergers happened in the 2000s and 2010s.

It's not like AC is the wounded beast of the early 2000s. Or Westjet the upstart just getting a hold. They're both in strong positions with fuel efficient newer fleets. AC's strong position in intercontinental travel will insulate it from being overly dependent on North American travel too.

Interesting times.

Coldrsx Jul 12, 2021 3:14 PM

I'd love to see Porter on the YEG-YYC-YVR triangle and or YEG-MSP-YYZ or YEG-ORD-YUL.

thenoflyzone Jul 12, 2021 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9337622)
Perhaps the Canadian Air market is finally large enough for 3 airlines to comfortably operate. This country is a lot bigger and a lot more likely to fly than 20-30 years ago.

If the whole of the US has the 4 major airlines (the big 3 +Southwest), with a domestic market several times larger than that of Canada, how can Canada be large enough for 3 airlines?

We are lucky to have 2 airlines.

Flair won't last. Too big, too fast. Wrong timing.
Porter's ambitions with the E195-E2 are too big too fast as well. This is an airline announcing an order+options on 80 planes, when they haven't flown a single flight in almost a year and a half. Not the soundest decision. How about you restart operations first, get your feet wet again, gauge the market, and reassess your aircraft orders then. That's too prudent I guess. Their aggressive expansion over a decade ago worked because of the valuable slots they had at YTZ. This is a different ballgame altogether. AC will defend it's market share out of YYZ, YOW and YUL tooth and nail. They couldn't out of YTZ.

Innsertnamehere Jul 12, 2021 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9337632)
It's definitely ambitious with the USA's 5th wave of COVID just getting underway. This one fuelled by the Delta variant.

Depends if it's a UK style explosion of cases or an Israel style bump in cases. Isreal's new "wave" is already in decline again.

The US's low vaccination rates mean there will likely be spread, but I'm doubtful it'll turn into a UK type scenario as the UK has problems with significant demographics being completely unvaccinated.


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