SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Denscity Apr 14, 2021 3:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9248084)
If the airport gets an RNP AR approach and runway lights, the restriction for night time flights could be lifted for properly equipped aircraft.

We do have some form of runway lights coming apparently.
Castlegarsource.com reported it.

Also at 80 000 passengers per year despite multiple cancelations that's still 10 times our population. And also apparently 80 something percent of our cancelations would end with RNP.

thenoflyzone Apr 14, 2021 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9248123)
And also apparently 80 something percent of our cancelations would end with RNP.

Theoretically, yes, but that's assuming airlines are willing to send in aircraft that can fly these approaches.

The Dash 100s/300s and Beech 1900s won't be able to, and I believe these aircraft represent the majority of the commercial aircraft movements at YCG.

It's going to be about cost/benefit. Is it worth it for AC Express to send in a larger aircraft (which costs more to operate) into a very small market on the odd chance the weather might be below minimums?

The one thing going for YCG is that the days of the Q100/300s are numbered, so eventually, only the Q400s will remain.

Denscity Apr 14, 2021 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9248359)
Theoretically, yes, but that's assuming airlines are willing to send in aircraft that can fly these approaches.

The Dash 100s/300s and Beech 1900s won't be able to, and I believe these aircraft represent the majority of the commercial aircraft movements at YCG.

It's going to be about cost/benefit. Is it worth it for AC Express to send in a larger aircraft (which costs more to operate) into a very small market on the odd chance the weather might be below minimums?

The one thing going for YCG is that the days of the Q100/300s are numbered, so eventually, only the Q400s will remain.

Yup their willingness to send is the issue.
But I'm thinking the 3 daily Dashes to Vancouver could be reduced to daily or twice daily with the Q.
The daily Calgary Dash may turn into a 3 or 4 weekly Q.

Nick Apr 14, 2021 3:55 PM

With Jazz retiring their Dash 8-300 fleet things may be forced. The plane that used to serve YCG aren't in YYC or YVR anymore. Either RNP (We call in RNAV Y in ATC world these days) or a smaller regional carrier such as CMA, Pacific Coastal would serve it using their smaller aircraft.

Question for noflyzone: Do they have RNAV Y approaches at YUL? At YYC we are all in on that. We also have EOR (established on RNAV) for two independent parallel approaches with a monitor.

Denscity Apr 14, 2021 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 9248585)
With Jazz retiring their Dash 8-300 fleet things may be forced. The plane that used to serve YCG aren't in YYC or YVR anymore. Either RNP (We call in RNAV Y in ATC world these days) or a smaller regional carrier such as CMA, Pacific Coastal would serve it using their smaller aircraft.

Question for noflyzone: Do they have RNAV Y approaches at YUL? At YYC we are all in on that. We also have EOR (established on RNAV) for two independent parallel approaches with a monitor.

We do currently have CMA service to YVR 4 days a week. Was daily.
But we are missing our flight to Calgary perhaps Westjet Link will fill that destination we've had for decades with AC Jazz.

Dominion301 Apr 14, 2021 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9247787)
So again, WS will start routes to Kamloops and Penticton. Why is the government forcing AC to start routes to Kamloops and Penticton with taxpayer money? You already have an airline that is providing service based on demand.

Once the vaccinations are completed, demand will return as will the routes as will open hotels, restaurants and stores and spending. This will take care of itself. People use Zoom, Teams, etc. to conduct business. Business travel will come back but never to the extent that it was. I work for a global company that is definitely downsizing office space. It saves them money, it saves us on fuel and parking and it saves the environment. Not having an Amsterdam-Edmonton-Kamloops route isn't going to decimate the economy of Kamloops.

And as to the vaccinations, when the government (and many other governments i'm sure) realized that the vaccines were not coming fast enough they then continued to extend the time between doses. 20% of Canadians have had one dose of a vaccine (rank 20 in the world) but only 2.2% of Canadians have been fully vaccinated (rank 47 in the world).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...s-tracker.html

The deal with AC (and in the next few weeks with other airlines) isn't "taxpayer money". It's principally a government loan with interest that needs to be repaid within 7 years. The equity stake, if the government holds the stock for a period of time, could yield a tidy profit...the previous government failed miserably at that with GM & Chrysler when they sold their shares prematurely as part of their tactics of creating the illusion of a balanced budget. The previous gov't also failed at tying financial aid to strict terms and conditions. That hasn't happened with the AC agreement, one of which is to restore service to a list of small cities. It's very appropriate to force AC to restart service to those communities sooner than they otherwise would have...and in a couple of cases probably never would have. They're also forced to sign interlines or codeshares with the small regionals (e.g. Air Creebec at YVO) to their former cities that they're permanently abandoning so that those cities & towns can remain connected to the global AC network. YVO is optimistic in this Radio-Canada article: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...e-aerienne-pal.

WS is free to apply to seek the same type of deal with the feds...but maybe Ed Sims can't live off a paltry $1 million per year as part of the Ts&Cs.

For the politics of vaccinations, look/complain to your provincial premier and the large inventories in some provinces. The federal government has said for months (before Christmas) that the target was 6 million does delivered to Canada by the end of March 2021. Well lo and behold approximately 6.2 million doses were delivered by 31MAR21. I guess it's their fault for not just meeting, but also beating their target?

LO 044 Apr 14, 2021 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9248836)
The deal with AC (and in the next few weeks with other airlines) isn't "taxpayer money". It's principally a government loan with interest that needs to be repaid within 7 years. The equity stake, if the government holds the stock for a period of time, could yield a tidy profit...the previous government failed miserably at that with GM & Chrysler when they sold their shares prematurely as part of their tactics of creating the illusion of a balanced budget. The previous gov't also failed at tying financial aid to strict terms and conditions. That hasn't happened with the AC agreement, one of which is to restore service to a list of small cities. It's very appropriate to force AC to restart service to those communities sooner than they otherwise would have...and in a couple of cases probably never would have. They're also forced to sign interlines or codeshares with the small regionals (e.g. Air Creebec at YVO) to their former cities that they're permanently abandoning so that those cities & towns can remain connected to the global AC network. YVO is optimistic in this Radio-Canada article: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...e-aerienne-pal.

WS is free to apply to seek the same type of deal with the feds...but maybe Ed Sims can't live off a paltry $1 million per year as part of the Ts&Cs.

For the politics of vaccinations, look/complain to your provincial premier and the large inventories in some provinces. The federal government has said for months (before Christmas) that the target was 6 million does delivered to Canada by the end of March 2021. Well lo and behold approximately 6.2 million doses were delivered by 31MAR21. I guess it's their fault for not just meeting, but also beating their target?

Nice try, the way this federal government spends money, my great grandkids won't see a balanced budget in their life. This government is amongst the highest spending G7 or was it G20 nations per person during the pandemic and everyone has taken the free money and put it in their bank account.

Must not have been a very good target i guess.
"Canada now has more new COVID cases per capita than the U.S."
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...a-than-the-u-s

At the end of the day we'll agree to disagree. It could have been worse, the NDP would have given AC 1 billion dollars for an "I owe you" piece of paper. I do hope that AC does well and i do enjoy flying them because they take me where i need to go. I don't blame AC in fact i wonder if this is one of those please take the money so we can show our upcoming voters that we support them. Everyone has said that AC is in a good financial situation anyways and as others have said very few companies have taken advantage of the government handouts for a variety of poor terms and conditions.

No point slagging WS here. They are taking full responsibility for their efforts as a private company. They have provided more refunds to Canadians than AC without the government forcing them. If Ed Sims gets to keep his million so be it, there is no risk to joe taxpayer so there's no issue. The public has no right to tell WS how to run their business.

thenoflyzone Apr 14, 2021 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 9248585)

Question for noflyzone: Do they have RNAV Y approaches at YUL? At YYC we are all in on that. We also have EOR (established on RNAV) for two independent parallel approaches with a monitor.

No RNAV Y / RNP AR approaches or EOR at YUL.

TCU can't even run parallel independent ILS approaches here. There are no procedures in place for a monitor position, nor do they have the staffing for it, nor the approval. They are restricted to simultaneous dependent ILS approaches. The only time TCU can do side by side approaches is if one aircraft is on the visual approach. Otherwise, a minimum of 2 nm stagger is the name of the game.

As for the reason why YUL (and YYZ for that matter) don't have RNP AR approaches, it's because a good chunk of the traffic can't support those procedures, so the benefit is minimal. it might also be a question of noise abatement, as RNP AR approaches often turn final well inside 10 nm final. (this is the case at YOW and YQB.) Jets need to turn final at or above 3000ft here.

At YYC, you guys are over 50% westjet and encore, all of which can do RNP AR approaches. Not the case at YUL or YYZ. Eventually though, as more aircraft are capable, I'm guessing we will join the bandwagon.

Here is a neat map of airports in Canada with RNP AR approaches. (last updated Feb 2021). You'll notice no YUL or YYZ.

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/nav_cana...page_rnp_e.pdf

Other maps are available depicting airports with ILS, LNAV, LNAV/VNAV and LPV at the link below. Just scroll down.

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/flight-p...veillance.aspx

casper Apr 14, 2021 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9248977)
Nice try, the way this federal government spends money, my great grandkids won't see a balanced budget in their life. This government is amongst the highest spending G7 or was it G20 nations per person during the pandemic and everyone has taken the free money and put it in their bank account.

The budget will be balanced again. Canada has a good track record of doing that in good times. As for paying down the national debt, yes your grand kids will likely not see that day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9248977)
Must not have been a very good target i guess.
"Canada now has more new COVID cases per capita than the U.S."
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...a-than-the-u-s

Significantly less loss of life than the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9248977)
No point slagging WS here. They are taking full responsibility for their efforts as a private company. They have provided more refunds to Canadians than AC without the government forcing them. If Ed Sims gets to keep his million so be it, there is no risk to joe taxpayer so there's no issue. The public has no right to tell WS how to run their business.

Business is business. WestJet is not passing on the loans because of some moral issue. If they don't take it is not philosophy but some terms i the package it does not like.

samuelx88 Apr 15, 2021 12:38 AM

According to Les Ailes du Québec, Air Canada will interline with Pascan to restore service to Gaspé, Baie-Comeau, Iles-de-la-Madeleine, Mont-Joli and Wabush. Pascan will use their Saab 340B for these routes. They will also share cargo. Their first interline will be on June 10th

https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/pas...-a-air-canada/

thenoflyzone Apr 15, 2021 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelx88 (Post 9249343)
According to Les Ailes du Québec, Air Canada will interline with Pascan to restore service to Gaspé, Baie-Comeau, Iles-de-la-Madeleine, Mont-Joli and Wabush. Pascan will use their Saab 340B for these routes. They will also share cargo. Their first interline will be on June 10th

https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/pas...-a-air-canada/

Proof that the Q400 is too big for a lot of markets.

Alexcaban Apr 15, 2021 12:03 PM

AC has no problem filling two Q400's in the summer to Iles-de-la-Madeleine from YUL, why use Pascan.

J81 Apr 15, 2021 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9249688)
AC has no problem filling two Q400's in the summer to Iles-de-la-Madeleine from YUL, why use Pascan.

Pre covid maybe. Not a chance now.

Alexcaban Apr 15, 2021 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 9249693)
Pre covid maybe. Not a chance now.

What are you talking about! This was last summer! Pre-covid AC was running a single DH3 and before 2019 one DH1 that did YUL-YQB-YGP-YGR milk run.

Especially this summer, when airlines are focusing on "domestic travel". I stand by what I said.

thenoflyzone Apr 15, 2021 12:57 PM

^this deal was a year in the making, apparently. It's clearly a long term deal. The uptick in domestic travel Quebec -and Canada- is seeing will wither once this pandemic is over. People will go back to booking their all inclusives to Cancun or their European/Asian vacations instead of going to YGR.

Just because the Q is operating to YGR today doesn't mean that will be the case next year. AC securing this interline is proof of that.

Alexcaban Apr 15, 2021 1:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9249712)
^this deal was a year in the making, apparently. It's clearly a long term deal. The uptick in domestic travel Quebec -and Canada- is seeing will wither once this pandemic is over. People will go back to booking their all inclusives to Cancun or their European/Asian vacations instead of going to YGR.

Just because the Q is operating to YGR today doesn't mean that will be the case next year. AC securing this interline is proof of that.

Long term sure not problem, but by switching to a smaller carrier this summer already when you were filling your Q's, seems kind of odd.

Dominion301 Apr 16, 2021 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9249719)
Long term sure not problem, but by switching to a smaller carrier this summer already when you were filling your Q's, seems kind of odd.

I don’t ever remember AC sending anything bigger than a DH3 to YGP & YGR.

This is a good deal as it should provide Pascan with long-term stability.

I still have no idea how the proposed Treq thinks they can make a go of it I intra-Quebec & YWK with DH4s.

Alexcaban Apr 16, 2021 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9251176)
I don’t ever remember AC sending anything bigger than a DH3 to YGP & YGR.

This is a good deal as it should provide Pascan with long-term stability.

I still have no idea how the proposed Treq thinks they can make a go of it I intra-Quebec & YWK with DH4s.

Last summer AC was running double daily Q400s to YGR

AC8734
AC8738

YGP was only from YQB but was soon cancelled.

samuelx88 Apr 16, 2021 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9251434)
Last summer AC was running double daily Q400s to YGR

AC8734
AC8738

YGP was only from YQB but was soon cancelled.

According to Les Ailes du Québec, Pascan will add 4 more Saab 340 within a year from now to serve YGP, YGR and other cities in Québec as part of their interline with Air Canada.

They are also waiting for Transport Canada certification of the Saab 2000 (50 pax) to add two of them to their fleet to expend flights out of Québec.

https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/pas...n-plan-viable/

JakeLRS Apr 16, 2021 7:41 PM

Ontario is set to announce province-to-province travel restrictions.

Prepare for quite a few cancelations.

My guess:
Flair will likely axe most YKF routes until June.
Smaller airports which were suppose to get a bump in service will get those axed too.


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.