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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

thenoflyzone Nov 17, 2018 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8382668)
Air Canada Rouge is operating seasonal non-stop service from YCD to YYZ from June to October, 4x per week. They are using an Airbus A319, which requires 3000-5000' of runway at mean sea level under ideal conditions (dry/little wind) - depending on load - ie 5000' is with maximum load.. Interesting that a 787-8 requires a similar runway length (B787-8 / 4,400ft - 5,000ft - MLW).

Rule of thumb - IIRC - is that an aircraft requires ~7% more runway length for each 1000' (~300m) rise in elevation from mean sea level.

You're talking about landing distances.

Landing distances required for commercial jets are usually shorter than takeoff distances.

Rouge has some A319s at 70t MTOW and some at 75.5t. All of the frames have CFM56 engines.

A 70t Rouge A319, in ISA conditions, needs about 5,500 ft of runway to takeoff at full load.

A 75.5 t A319 needs around 7,000 ft of runway at MTOW.

YCD-YYZ is less than 1,900 nm, and operates with a tailwind. So an A319 would be nowhere near MTOW.

Hence why the 6,600ft runway is more than enough for the A319 to YYZ.

chris Nov 17, 2018 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8382770)
You're talking about landing distances.

Landing distances required for commercial jets are usually shorter than takeoff distances.

Rouge has some A319s at 70t MTOW and some at 75.5t. All of the frames have CFM56 engines.

A 70t Rouge A319, in ISA conditions, needs about 5,500 ft of runway to takeoff at full load.

A 75.5 t A319 needs around 7,000 ft of runway at MTOW.

YCD-YYZ is less than 1,900 nm, and operates with a tailwind. So an A319 would be nowhere near MTOW.

Hence why the 6,600ft runway is more than enough for the A319 to YYZ.

So presumably, an A319 would be doable on YYZ-YQL.

DrNest Nov 17, 2018 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 8382801)
So presumably, an A319 would be doable on YYZ-YQL.

Yes

craneSpotter Nov 17, 2018 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8382770)
You're talking about landing distances.

Landing distances required for commercial jets are usually shorter than takeoff distances.

Rouge has some A319s at 70t MTOW and some at 75.5t. All of the frames have CFM56 engines.

A 70t Rouge A319, in ISA conditions, needs about 5,500 ft of runway to takeoff at full load.

A 75.5 t A319 needs around 7,000 ft of runway at MTOW.

YCD-YYZ is less than 1,900 nm, and operates with a tailwind. So an A319 would be nowhere near MTOW.

Hence why the 6,600ft runway is more than enough for the A319 to YYZ.

Thanks for the clarification! I imagine there would be a factor of safety used as well?

Lugnut Nov 19, 2018 6:42 PM

Region of Waterloo bought 200 acres in planning for an expansion at YKF

DrNest Nov 19, 2018 11:40 PM

^ Any word on what is planning to be expanded? Is it a longer runway or more apron/hangar space?

kwoldtimer Nov 19, 2018 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8384462)
^ Any word on what is planning to be expanded? Is it a longer runway or more apron/hangar space?

It's for a longer crosswind runway -- someday. No expansion is imminent.

DrNest Nov 20, 2018 12:25 AM

That makes sense. The main runway is long enough for the type of commercial carriers that will use CYKF. Having a longer crosswind runway for the times winds are gusting strongly would be good future planning

kwoldtimer Nov 20, 2018 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8384524)
That makes sense. The main runway is long enough for the type of commercial carriers that will use CYKF. Having a longer crosswind runway for the times winds are gusting strongly would be good future planning

Yes, the main runway is 2130m, while at present the shorter runway is only 1250m. Iirc, the airport bought a farm at the other end of this shorter runway in the past year.

Lugnut Nov 20, 2018 1:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 8384465)
It's for a longer crosswind runway -- someday. No expansion is imminent.

This is the somewhat frustrating thing. They WILL need it, so they got the land, which is smart, but the impatient part of me wants them to do it now.

Lugnut Nov 20, 2018 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 8384536)
Yes, the main runway is 2130m, while at present the shorter runway is only 1250m. Iirc, the airport bought a farm at the other end of this shorter runway in the past year.

I think this is the 2nd big purchase of theirs.

lubicon Nov 20, 2018 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8379226)
That's an old looking plane, glad nobody was killed and the the Lobsters got to their destination alright.

It was a 747-400 so not that old.

Cage Nov 20, 2018 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 8385365)
It was a 747-400 so not that old.

To be clear, the aircraft was a purpose built 747-400 Cargo version. The cargo version didn't have the extended upper deck like the passenger version. Therefore to the untrained eye, it would appear the aircraft was a 100 or 200 version that is much older.

nname Nov 21, 2018 7:36 AM

I just found this:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...19-AC_CA-1.jpg

I guess more change are coming from AC?

Which daily to LHR will be cancelled?

zahav Nov 21, 2018 7:57 AM

I don't know how to read that form, what is it saying exactly? That a 777 flight is being cancelled or added? It says YYZ on there, and aren't they the only ones operating a 777 on that route?

nname Nov 21, 2018 8:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8386026)
I don't know how to read that form, what is it saying exactly? That a 777 flight is being cancelled or added? It says YYZ on there, and aren't they the only ones operating a 777 on that route?

Pretty much means AC gives a 1050 arrival and 1400 departure slot to CA.

whywhyzee Nov 21, 2018 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8386021)
I just found this:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...19-AC_CA-1.jpg

I guess more change are coming from AC?

Which daily to LHR will be cancelled?

None to be cancelled, AC is getting a new slot pair from LH to replace the one going to CA.

DrNest Nov 21, 2018 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8386026)
I don't know how to read that form, what is it saying exactly? That a 777 flight is being cancelled or added? It says YYZ on there, and aren't they the only ones operating a 777 on that route?

Like nname says, Air Canada are trading one of the slots at Heathrow to Air China.
British Airways operate a 777 on the LHR-YYZ route, albeit the slightly smaller B772 as opposed to Air Canada's B77W.

thenoflyzone Nov 21, 2018 4:24 PM

AC swaps slots at LHR all the time.

Winter 2018 swaps:

AC and CZ

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-W18-AC_CZ.jpg

AC and CA

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-W18-AC_CA.jpg

Summer 2018 swaps:

AC and VS

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-S18-VS_AC.jpg

AC and OS

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/up...-S18-AC_OS.jpg

For summer 2019, there are no less than 13 airline swaps at LHR (so far). 2 of them involve AC.

Here is a complete list.

https://www.acl-uk.org/completed-trades/

nname Nov 21, 2018 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8386201)
None to be cancelled, AC is getting a new slot pair from LH to replace the one going to CA.

Ohhh didn't realized "Air C" meant "Air Canada" :haha:

Well, that makes sense... but schedule adjustment still need to be made though. Current flight time doesn't match these new slots it seems.


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