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LeftCoaster Dec 4, 2017 9:13 PM

Numbers out for YVR October, back to big growth after a very disapointing September:
  • Domestic up 6.0%
  • International up 15.7%
  • Transborder up 10.5%
  • Total up 9.4%

This puts YVR at just under 20.5 million PAX through October.

Given current growth rates and new services started/starting in Nov and Dec YVR should end the year comfortably into 24 million. Just to put that into perspective that is where Pearson was in 2003.

zahav Dec 5, 2017 4:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8004221)
Great news for YUL, yes it's about time it starts having figures like this, as it should. I did a summary of YTD to September for the big 4 YYZ, YVR, YUl, YYC (since only YUL has posted Octobe, it's not comparable to include it). YUL and YVR were either #1 or #2 in each category. YUL is top % gain for domestic, international (not incl. transborder), and overall growth. YVR is top % gain for transborder and international (including transborder). YYZ was 3rd in all categories, and YYC 4th. I'll be very curious where YVR stands by the end of the year for international traffic (incl. transborder) in North America. Already at 9.5 million with 3 more months to go.

Great to see all airports doing well and adding services!

Now YVR, YYC, and YUL have October stats posted (YYZ still to come). The ranking above still stand, although YVR edged out YUL for overall October growth so some of YVRs % increases went up, but YTD rankings in each of the categories remain the same. And if current trends hold for Nov and Dec, probably will end the year like that

Johnny Aussie Dec 5, 2017 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8008546)
Now YVR, YYC, and YUL have October stats posted (YYZ still to come). The ranking above still stand, although YVR edged out YUL for overall October growth so some of YVRs % increases went up, but YTD rankings in each of the categories remain the same. And if current trends hold for Nov and Dec, probably will end the year like that

In total pax figures YTD Oct 2017 compared to 2016

YVR is up 1,544,590
YUL is up 1,344,495
YYC is up 444,627

YYZ was up 2,108,227 YTD Sept 2017

DrNest Dec 5, 2017 4:48 PM

Looks like Canada Jetlines have announced Halifax as their Eastern base, to go with Hamilton and Abbotsford as their other main bases.
Canada Jetlines Press Release

Cage Dec 6, 2017 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8008950)
Looks like Canada Jetlines have announced Halifax as their Eastern base, to go with Hamilton and Abbotsford as their other main bases.
Canada Jetlines Press Release

Quote:

Stan Gadek, CEO of Jetlines stated, “We are pleased to announce the selection of Halifax Stanfield International Airport as our eastern operations base. Halifax is the leading airport of the Atlantic provinces and we look forward to lowering the cost of air travel to and from Atlantic Canada with our Ultra-Low Fares.” This announcement marks the third airport that Jetlines has agreed to terms with, in addition to Hamilton, ON and Abbotsford, BC, as we continue to implement our strategy of becoming Canada’s first true Ultra-Low Cost Carrier (ULCC).
The bolded statement is a little bit concerning. Specifically, what are the unique terms that Jetlines is requiring of its airports? The usual terms and conditions haven't changed much since the days of Transport Canada. The exceptions that I am aware of are the AC and WS long-term commercial agreements with the GTAA.

Provisions that I c0ould see Jetlines requiring an reconsideration:
- XXX pax per day require so many checkin positions.
- Preferential use of a bag carousel requires a staffed bag office.
- Minimum back off space requirements.
These were all provisions that WS hated back in 96-99 period when they first started.

casper Dec 6, 2017 1:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage (Post 8009548)
The bolded statement is a little bit concerning. Specifically, what are the unique terms that Jetlines is requiring of its airports? The usual terms and conditions haven't changed much since the days of Transport Canada. The exceptions that I am aware of are the AC and WS long-term commercial agreements with the GTAA.

Provisions that I c0ould see Jetlines requiring an reconsideration:
- XXX pax per day require so many checkin positions.
- Preferential use of a bag carousel requires a staffed bag office.
- Minimum back off space requirements.
These were all provisions that WS hated back in 96-99 period when they first started.

I would not be surprised if Abbotsford and Hamilton are willing to given this airline (or any airline) these things. I do not think these airport are oversubscribed. Not certain about Halifax.

SaskOttaLoo Dec 6, 2017 5:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nephersir7 (Post 8004443)
Yup, it's from the middle east:

"Roughly 80 per cent of the fuel consumed by Air Canada planes at Pearson now comes from refineries in the Middle East, South America and parts of Asia. A similar program on the West Coast meets about 75 per cent of the airline's fuel needs in Vancouver.

"There's no other airline on the planet that does this," says Whitty. "Airlines are typically a captive audience to their local refining community."

Air Canada's fuel is brought into the country on ocean-going freighters and is unloaded at a port in Quebec City, the furthest up the St. Lawrence Seaway the fuel-carrying freighters can safely travel. From there, it is either placed on a barge that travels up the seaway to Hamilton, where it is put in holding tanks until it's trucked to Pearson, or put on rail cars that travel to a depot located 26 kilometres from the airport. The fuel is then trucked in for the final stretch.

https://www.thestar.com/business/200...ly_system.html

Wow. That article is disturbing. Some selected quotes:

Whitty says Air Canada decided in 2002 to create its own fuel-supply chain because of concerns that the supply in Ontario, where most of Air Canada's flying originates, was not reliable enough to meet its fuel needs.

Air Canada's decision to immerse itself in the fuel importation business speaks to the larger question of refinery capacity – or lack thereof – in Canada.

Critics have blamed a lack of refining ability for a spate of gasoline shortages across Canada in recent years. In one instance, a fire at an Imperial Oil refinery in Nanticoke in February of 2007 combined with a strike by employees at Canadian National Railway Co. left hundreds of gas stations in Ontario and Quebec without any gas to sell.

More recently, a problem with the catalytic cracking unit at an Edmonton refinery caused the pumps to run dry in Alberta.

"A lot of the refineries in Ontario are old and antiquated," says Whitty. "These unanticipated shutdowns are becoming more and more frequent."

While the oil companies claim such situations are rare, observers say there is a reluctance to build more refining capacity into the system because of razor-thin margins. The last new refinery was built in Canada in 1984, while Ontario actually has fewer refineries today than it did just three years ago.

"Refineries are large capital investments," says Spencer Knipping, a petroleum adviser with the province's ministry of energy and infrastructure. "And as we go into the future with ethanol blends and all these developments, oil companies are getting antsy about these big capital projects."

Last month, for example, Shell scrapped a plan to build a 150,000 to 250,000 barrels-per-day refinery next to its existing plant in Sarnia, citing poor market conditions and rising construction costs.

"These oil companies and energy trading companies have more or less captured all of the infrastructure needed to bring product into these regions," he says. "So, for example, the tankage that we've secured at the ports in Quebec City and Hamilton, had we not secured them a few years ago, we wouldn't have it today."


I wonder why they don't use Canadian fuel?

casper Dec 6, 2017 5:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo (Post 8009838)
Wow. That article is disturbing. Some selected quotes:

Whitty says Air Canada decided in 2002 to create its own fuel-supply chain because of concerns that the supply in Ontario, where most of Air Canada's flying originates, was not reliable enough to meet its fuel needs.

Air Canada's decision to immerse itself in the fuel importation business speaks to the larger question of refinery capacity – or lack thereof – in Canada.

Critics have blamed a lack of refining ability for a spate of gasoline shortages across Canada in recent years. In one instance, a fire at an Imperial Oil refinery in Nanticoke in February of 2007 combined with a strike by employees at Canadian National Railway Co. left hundreds of gas stations in Ontario and Quebec without any gas to sell.

More recently, a problem with the catalytic cracking unit at an Edmonton refinery caused the pumps to run dry in Alberta.

"A lot of the refineries in Ontario are old and antiquated," says Whitty. "These unanticipated shutdowns are becoming more and more frequent."

While the oil companies claim such situations are rare, observers say there is a reluctance to build more refining capacity into the system because of razor-thin margins. The last new refinery was built in Canada in 1984, while Ontario actually has fewer refineries today than it did just three years ago.

"Refineries are large capital investments," says Spencer Knipping, a petroleum adviser with the province's ministry of energy and infrastructure. "And as we go into the future with ethanol blends and all these developments, oil companies are getting antsy about these big capital projects."

Last month, for example, Shell scrapped a plan to build a 150,000 to 250,000 barrels-per-day refinery next to its existing plant in Sarnia, citing poor market conditions and rising construction costs.

"These oil companies and energy trading companies have more or less captured all of the infrastructure needed to bring product into these regions," he says. "So, for example, the tankage that we've secured at the ports in Quebec City and Hamilton, had we not secured them a few years ago, we wouldn't have it today."


I wonder why they don't use Canadian fuel?

It might be going back 5-6 years ago. The Globe and Mail had a full two page article on Air Canada fuel supply chain with a big map and drawing of the entire thing. Going by memory, I believe Venezuela was a major supplier back then. Perhaps that is changed now.

I think it comes down to price and an airport distribution system that is supplier neutral. I think they are going to world market and buying an ocean going ship load of fuel at a time.

If you go into smaller airport, the FBO have some type of franchise with Shell or Esso, etc. If you want to fuel, you have to phone one of these FBO up and they send a tanker over to your aircraft and fill it up.

Pearson and Vancouver, the guys the pump fuel into the aircraft work for a non-profit owned by the airlines. The airline is responsible to arrange for a refinery to delivery an equivalent amount of fuel into its depot. It means Air Canada at these airports is not tied to buying fuel from a company that has local delivery operations at the airport.

As for the problem of refineries in Canada. It is going to get worse. Here is Sothern BC, the one refinery that supplies Vancouver (and barges to Vancouver Island) is the one at the end of the Kinder Morgan pipeline.

YVR already had an underground pipeline from this refinery to the airport (as well as the competing oil companies depot that are also next to the refinery). However the airport wants a second pipeline to another terminal that is accessible by ocean going ship.

Here is a some details:
http://vancouverairportfuel.ca/admin...C_Brochure.pdf

ghYHZ Dec 6, 2017 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8009614)
I would not be surprised if Abbotsford and Hamilton are willing to given this airline (or any airline) these things. I do not think these airport are oversubscribed. Not certain about Halifax.

There’s already three airlines between Halifax and central Canada: Air Canada (including wide-bodies) Westjet and Porter….but I guess there’s the prestige of having another airline…..and an LCC

casper Dec 6, 2017 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8009959)
There’s already three airlines between Halifax and central Canada: Air Canada (including wide-bodies) Westjet and Porter….but I guess there’s the prestige of having another airline…..and an LCC

The point I was trying to make is if the airport is over built relative to its current demand it may have a surplus of check in counters, gates, baggage areas etc. It may look at the situation and decide to lease lots of space to an upstart airline even if it is not warranted to attract it to setup shop.

We need Porter to comes out west. It can help keep Air Canada and WestJet honest. Perhaps make a buck in the process.

FFX-ME Dec 6, 2017 3:19 PM

Do you think any of these low cost carriers will start serving YND to tap into the Ottawa market?

Acajack Dec 6, 2017 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 8010132)
Do you think any of these low cost carriers will start serving YND to tap into the Ottawa market?

I've always wondered where the ND in our airport code came from.

Could there be an old hamlet near there that was called Notre-Dame-de-Whateveux or something?

FFX-ME Dec 6, 2017 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8010174)
I've always wondered where the ND in our airport code came from.

Could there be an old hamlet near there that was called Notre-Dame-de-Whateveux or something?

Most airport codes in Canada do not have any meaning. YYZ? YUL? YYC? YEG? There are a few that do like YOW, YQB and YVR but most don't.

thenoflyzone Dec 6, 2017 10:47 PM

New YYZ 2017-2037master plan, came out last week.

https://www.torontopearson.com/uploa...inal_Draft.pdf

Highlights:

-Passenger numbers will double (85 million), movements will go up to 632,000 per year by 2037. No new runway planned.
-Cargo numbers will double to 960,000 tonnes in 2037.
-New Pier H at T1 and pier D at T3, the latter will link both terminals. Addition of gates to satellite pier A.
-Build a regional transit centre that can accommodate a range of trains and buses and is fully integrated with the terminal facilities, such as at AMS, LHR or FRA. Goal is to increase passenger transit share from 10% to 30% by 2037.

So YYZ and YVR have updated master plans. I'm eagerly waiting for YUL's master plan to be updated. The old one, from 2013, had the airport reaching 20 million pax in 2028....:uhh: By the looks of it, we are going to reach it by the end of next year, 10 years ahead of schedule.

isaidso Dec 7, 2017 2:52 AM

I thought the idea was to eventually take T3 down so that T1 can expand on to where it sits. T3 is cramped and should be demolished imo.

esquire Dec 7, 2017 4:16 AM

^ T3 is nice now! The renovations have made it a pleasant place again, and I would say it's as roomy and spacious as it needs to be.

casper Dec 7, 2017 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8011144)
^ T3 is nice now! The renovations have made it a pleasant place again, and I would say it's as roomy and spacious as it needs to be.

I agree. Never understood the leaning of Toronto airport to tear down buildings. Other airports (Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Saskatoon) all appear to be able to grow and have modern spaces through renovation and expansion.

esquire Dec 7, 2017 4:35 PM

^ If anything, I'm a little surprised by the somewhat modest terminal expansion plans by the GTAA. I think what would really take Pearson to the next level is to convert the existing T1 international gates to domestic/transborder, and then build a new international pier that's a bit bigger than the current one.

The international area strikes me as being a fair bit busier now than when T1 opened 12 or so years ago... you end up with multiple gates in a row boarding heavies at almost the same time, especially during the evening peak hours, and it ends up being jam packed. Shops, lounges, restaurants, washrooms, everything. They could use more space to handle those crowds.

DrNest Dec 7, 2017 6:44 PM

That Master plan made for interesting reading. I've been hearing a lot of speculation of extending taxiway V westwards to join with the holding bay of 06R and add more room to hold aircraft for flow delays. But there doesn't appear to be mention of that in the plan, just a widening of the corner to make it easier for A380 movement. I've also heard a significant talk of building 23L/05R, so again, even though they mention room for it, there's not plan in the coming years to actually build it. I'm disappointed in that fact.

It makes sense to join Terminals 1 and 3. And there definitely needs to be more expansion to T1, that can't come soon enough.

nephersir7 Dec 8, 2017 3:22 PM

Bill C-23 has cleared Senate and will be signed into law in the coming days.

https://twitter.com/SenHarder/status/938885135839019008

That means that pre-clearance can finally go ahead at YQB and YTZ


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