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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

wave46 Feb 10, 2017 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 7708169)
How so?

Air Canada/Air Transat POV: Montreal-Paris is a fairly high demand city pair. Instead of setting up operations in Ottawa for a flight that might be subject to seasonality (example: flights from Ottawa-Frankfurt), easier to send passengers on a 200km Air Canada Express regional flight to Montreal first. Or passengers might just drive for the distance and save the cost of flying out of Ottawa.

Air France POV: Demand is higher in Montreal region (serves all Quebec). Easier logistically to operate out of a few larger airports. Ottawa isn't much of a connection point either, most people travel through Toronto/Montreal, so not going to pick up much connecting traffic. Air France is Skyteam, so no airline alliance to feed into in Canada - codeshare with Westjet is the closest they can get.

esquire Feb 10, 2017 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 7708166)
This speculation had made me so anxious to know lol.

I'd guess it's Paris flights. They seem to be choosing the appropriate symbolic European cities. Dublin for us, Glasgow for HFX. Paris for MTL would align with that cute thing they've got going.

If that's the case, then I can't wait for Winnipeg-Lviv!

Blader Feb 10, 2017 7:46 PM

For the fun of it - it could be a grand slam. C series and Air Transat and more wide bodies.

Blader Feb 10, 2017 7:52 PM

^^^
Oh to be a grand slam it has to be 4 runs. Joining an alliance. That makes four.

p_xavier Feb 10, 2017 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader (Post 7708197)
^^^
Oh to be a grand slam it has to be 4 runs. Joining an alliance. That makes four.

It's actually one of the reasons why I don't fly WestJet. I like my points.

FFX-ME Feb 10, 2017 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7708185)
Air Canada/Air Transat POV: Montreal-Paris is a fairly high demand city pair. Instead of setting up operations in Ottawa for a flight that might be subject to seasonality (example: flights from Ottawa-Frankfurt), easier to send passengers on a 200km Air Canada Express regional flight to Montreal first. Or passengers might just drive for the distance and save the cost of flying out of Ottawa.

Air France POV: Demand is higher in Montreal region (serves all Quebec). Easier logistically to operate out of a few larger airports. Ottawa isn't much of a connection point either, most people travel through Toronto/Montreal, so not going to pick up much connecting traffic. Air France is Skyteam, so no airline alliance to feed into in Canada - codeshare with Westjet is the closest they can get.

That's true in principle then if an airline has a monopoly but since there is competition if one airline decides to service Ottawa it would then dominate that market as the detriment of the other airlines. They would then gain a greater market share of the route.

wave46 Feb 10, 2017 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME (Post 7708281)
That's true in principle then if an airline has a monopoly but since there is competition if one airline decides to service Ottawa it would then dominate that market as the detriment of the other airlines. They would then gain a greater market share of the route.

True - but Ottawa's biggest knock is that it is a 'tweener market. It is probably too small/lacks enough connecting passengers to fill a wide-body aircraft reliably and too far to use a current narrow-body aircraft. The best you could hope for currently is a 1-2X/week flight, with maybe 3-4X during summer travel season. That's discounting that both nearby Toronto and Montreal effectively siphon off passengers with their daily flights to Paris. To me, I'd rather deal with a connection and get daily service when I want to go as opposed to being tied to when the airline wants to fly.

Now, if a new airplane like the A321neoLR performs as advertised you might have a business case for an Ottawa-Paris flight. It's small enough that you probably could fill it consistently to economical loads, but has enough range that it will make a transatlantic flight without stopping for fuel.

jmt18325 Feb 10, 2017 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7708136)
With what planes? They're pretty much maxed out using the 4 767s they have on their LGW runs from Toronto, Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton and Winnipeg.

They've been hunting for new metal.

jmt18325 Feb 10, 2017 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker (Post 7708138)
Would be out of left field, but C-Series purchase?

Possibly - it's a long way from the Q400 to Max 8 (since Max 7 is now bigger and may not happen).

jmt18325 Feb 10, 2017 9:23 PM

The thing though - why is Garneau there?

MalcolmTucker Feb 10, 2017 9:29 PM

Could be an update on either of these things, like a voluntary system of standards to avoid regulation?:

Liberals to lift foreign ownership of domestic airlines, draft bill of rights for passengers

Transport Minister Marc Garneau tight lipped on inaccessible travel review

Rico Rommheim Feb 11, 2017 3:05 PM

It's nice to see YUL continue its upward climb. On top of that it will soon be connected with a world-class light rail system. The bush league days are coming to an end.

cyeg66 Feb 11, 2017 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 7708896)
It's nice to see YUL continue its upward climb. On top of that it will soon be connected with a world-class light rail system. The bush league days are coming to an end.

Agreed, though the airport isn't that far from downtown from a major city POV, it's still awkward and a pain negotiating the clover leaf traffic circles and such just to get out of there. And the 20 to get downtown can be a bit of a piece of shite. All it takes is one stalled car.... The LRT could be a godsend.

thenoflyzone Feb 11, 2017 7:40 PM

" Eastern guests".

Maybe a Q400 base with added destinations to the Maritimes and the North-eastern US? It's about time WS gets a base operation going in YUL.

Still doesnt explain why Garneau is there. I don't think WS would go for the CSeries right now. I think they are perfectly set up with the Q400/B737/B763. Don't need anything in between at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 7708896)
It's nice to see YUL continue its upward climb. On top of that it will soon be connected with a world-class light rail system. The bush league days are coming to an end.

define soon? The LRT will take quite a few years to be built. Their 2020 time frame is not realistic. If you've seen how Quebec construction projects go, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyeg66 (Post 7708977)
Agreed, though the airport isn't that far from downtown from a major city POV, it's still awkward and a pain negotiating the clover leaf traffic circles and such just to get out of there. And the 20 to get downtown can be a bit of a piece of shite. All it takes is one stalled car.... The LRT could be a godsend.

No more clover leafs...per se...

The Dorval circle has been worked on in the last 10 years. The project stalled a few years ago, leading to a "bridge to nowhere". That bridge should be completed later this year, and the whole project done with in 2018 (landscaping by 2019), or so they say. We'll see.

jmt18325 Feb 11, 2017 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7709042)
Still doesnt explain why Garneau is there. I don't think WS would go for the CSeries right now. I think they are perfectly set up with the Q400/B737/B763. Don't need anything in between at the moment.

Maybe not right now, but they are going to need a replacement for their 736 and 73G aircraft at some point. The Max 7 isn't a proper replacement anymore, and I'm not sure if they'll actually take them.

thenoflyzone Feb 11, 2017 9:38 PM

The more i think about this, the more a Q400 base sounds plausible. YUL-YQB/YQM/YHZ/YYT/BOS, or a combination thereof.

A little competition wouldn't hurt. AC enjoys a monopoly on YQM and BOS. YQB could use another "major" player as well.

thewave46 Feb 11, 2017 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7709136)
The more i think about this, the more a Q400 base sounds plausible. YUL-YQB/YQM/YHZ/YYT/BOS, or a combination thereof.

A little competition wouldn't hurt. AC enjoys a monopoly on YQM and BOS. YQB could use another "major" player as well.

Quebec has long been Westjet's weakest market. Given that growth is hard to find right now, this makes a lot of sense - give AC a run for their money and benefit Quebec fliers.

thenoflyzone Feb 12, 2017 1:39 AM

^
^

Forgot to add YUL-YOW to that list. Probably not initially, but once the focus city operation develops.

Some other good news for YUL. At yesterday's unveiling, AC CEO Calin Rovinescu said that "after Shanghai, it's not over for Montreal. The Montreal community will still have something to celebrate" (Link in french only, so you westerners can brush up on your french. Or use google translate !)

http://www.ledevoir.com/economie/act...nge-de-couleur

Some quick facts that are mentioned.

AC carried 8.3 million passengers in/out of YUL in 2016 (+11.5%)
AC's transatlantic capacity from YUL in summer 2017 will be 19% greater than 2016. This is an 81% increase in the last 3 years.

Also, a second terminal is in the planning stages for YUL. In between the two parallel runways. A tunnel will supposedly link both terminals. If a 4% growth rate is achieved in the next few years, YUL will see 20 million passengers by 2020. Interview with new ADM CEO Philippe Rainville. Again, link in french only.

http://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2017/02/1...agrandissement

isaidso Feb 12, 2017 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 7708896)
It's nice to see YUL continue its upward climb. On top of that it will soon be connected with a world-class light rail system. The bush league days are coming to an end.

I look forward to a YUL at 40 million PAX.

thenoflyzone Feb 12, 2017 1:05 PM

airlineroute let it slip out..

YUL-YHZ 2x daily, Q400 - eff 15 Mar
YUL-YQB 4x daily, Q400 - eff 15 Jun
YUL-BOS 2x daily, Q400 - eff 15 Oct
YUL-YYC increase from 2 to 3x daily (weekdays) 737, eff 01 May
YUL-YVR increase from 1 to 2x daily 737, eff 01 May

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...ervice-in-s17/

I love how they are going all in with YUL-YQB. straight to 4x daily, evenly spread out throughout the day. Anything less would have been useless.

Two daily to BOS is also welcome. As I said, AC had a monopoly on this route. This will help drop prices to Beantown. Great for the consumer.

Too bad YQM isn't on the initial expansion list. Hopefully it gets added. The increases out west are also great. Domestic traffic at YUL will get a nice boost with these flights. 2016 already saw a healthy increase, and with AC planning on adding more feed to YUL, these numbers are sure to rise in the future.

WS will need at least one more dedicated gate with these flights. The domestic wing at YUL looks small all of a sudden ;)


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