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G.S MTL Nov 1, 2015 10:17 PM

Just got some news Air Canada will re operate AC892 YUL-FCO on an A333...I believe it's daily but will confirm for sure. No more Air Canada Rouge to Rome ! ;)

rbt Nov 1, 2015 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 7219100)
Also, Air Canada's HQ is in Montreal so Toronto technically has no airline.

Porter, but as you know they're not at YYZ.

urbanfan89 Nov 2, 2015 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak (Post 7215512)
I'm not convinced this is an accurate reading of government policy. There are plenty of open sky agreements the government has made that don't necessarily favour Canadian airlines over foreign ones. The problem with Dubai is two-fold though. First, an open skies agreement wouldn't offer reciprocal benefit to Canadian airlines since, as you point out, the market being targeted isn't the UAE itself, but the Indian subcontinent. Secondly, the benefit to consumers may be fleeting since service to the UAE may compromise service to other locations that depend partially on connections to India and surrounding areas, as EK and EY can compete at a much lower cost base. You may disagree with decision, but I would say it is likely a combination of protecting the interests of Canadian businesses and Canadian consumers.

I hope the new government at least expands service rights from the UAE and Qatar. The current policy doesn't even protect Air Canada, since it simply funnels passengers into Star Alliance hubs in Europe.

If expanding service rights hurts Lufthansa routes to India it's not Ottawa's problem. The government can work with Air Canada to find other markets to compete on, for instance the South America to Asia routes, or smaller US cities to Europe/Asia routes. It could turn YYZ and YVR into proper global hubs by abolishing immigration checks for transit passengers.

I was half-expecting expanded service rights last spring, so that daily EK/EY into YYZ and new service to YVR would commence in the summer, and thus help Harper retain seats in the GTA/Metro Vancouver. Maybe he forgot to do so. :shrug:

casper Nov 2, 2015 1:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanfan89 (Post 7219276)
I hope the new government at least expands service rights from the UAE and Qatar. The current policy doesn't even protect Air Canada, since it simply funnels passengers into Star Alliance hubs in Europe.

If expanding service rights hurts Lufthansa routes to India it's not Ottawa's problem. The government can work with Air Canada to find other markets to compete on, for instance the South America to Asia routes, or smaller US cities to Europe/Asia routes. It could turn YYZ and YVR into proper global hubs by abolishing immigration checks for transit passengers.

I was half-expecting expanded service rights last spring, so that daily EK/EY into YYZ and new service to YVR would commence in the summer, and thus help Harper retain seats in the GTA/Metro Vancouver. Maybe he forgot to do so. :shrug:

I hope they don't.

What it does do is make a host of other direct flights from Toronto that may not be viable. YYZ has flights to places like Geneva, Istanbul, Dublin, Rome, Vienna, Cairo, Ethiopia, Warsaw, Islamabad, Jeddah as well as most of the destinations in Asia. Some of these destination start to become less viable if they don't some connections.

Allow Dubai to expand and we are likely to lose competition to Air Canada on Europe and start to pay more.

Same thing for YVR. There is a reason Vancouver is doing better with diversity of air carriers vrs Emeritis.

It is not about protecting Air Canada, it is about ensuring we have lots of competition going to Europe and Asia.

urbanfan89 Nov 2, 2015 5:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7219357)
I hope they don't.

What it does do is make a host of other direct flights from Toronto that may not be viable. YYZ has flights to places like Geneva, Istanbul, Dublin, Rome, Vienna, Cairo, Ethiopia, Warsaw, Islamabad, Jeddah as well as most of the destinations in Asia. Some of these destination start to become less viable if they don't some connections.

Allow Dubai to expand and we are likely to lose competition to Air Canada on Europe and start to pay more.

Same thing for YVR. There is a reason Vancouver is doing better with diversity of air carriers vrs Emeritis.

It is not about protecting Air Canada, it is about ensuring we have lots of competition going to Europe and Asia.

The GTA population is large and multicultural enough, and its economy wealthy enough, to sustain flights to all these countries and cities. We're not Atlanta, whose economy is too small to act as a global air hub on its own and therefore is entirely dependent on connections.

And besides, EK and EY aren't the only airlines with a hub/spoke business model. Almost all the foreign airlines at YYZ funnel passengers beyond their country. And even AC's business plan revolves around developing YYZ as a truly global hub beyond Canada - like Rio to Shanghai, St. Louis to Rome, Mexico to Copenhagen, etc. So I don't see why the Gulf Arabs should be seen as different from BA, Lufthansa, etc. If we simply ignore them, then Canada will lose. Toronto will be further away from, say, Hyderabad, Durban, and Tehran than our competitors like Boston or Chicago. Not to mention, Dubai has become such an important city in its own right that AC just started non-stop service.

There shouldn't be unlimited open skies like the US, but Toronto can absorb a daily 777 from EK and EY perfectly fine.

Bourkky Nov 2, 2015 6:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7219210)
Just got some news Air Canada will re operate AC892 YUL-FCO on an A333...I believe it's daily but will confirm for sure. No more Air Canada Rouge to Rome ! ;)

Its already in Air Canada's system. The thing is now, AC has to many routes with the A333 than it has A333 for summer 2016. They have 8 A333 and 11 routes with it:

1-YYZ-MAD
2-YYZ-AMS
3-YYZ-MUC
4-YYZ-FCO
5-YYC-LHR
6-YYC-FRA
7-YUL-BRU
8-YUL-GVA
9-YUL-YVR
10-YUL-FCO
11-YUL-FRA

3 of those routes will have to have equipment change. I'm guessing YYZ-MUC will go 787-9. I read in another forum YYZ-FCO might go 77W. No idea for the third one? All those routes in the summer are very busy so any one of them could easily get upgrade to 787-9.

Johnny Aussie Nov 2, 2015 7:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourkky (Post 7219540)
Its already in Air Canada's system. The thing is now, AC has to many routes with the A333 than it has A333 for summer 2016. They have 8 A333 and 11 routes with it:

1-YYZ-MAD
2-YYZ-AMS
3-YYZ-MUC
4-YYZ-FCO
5-YYC-LHR
6-YYC-FRA
7-YUL-BRU
8-YUL-GVA
9-YUL-YVR
10-YUL-FCO
11-YUL-FRA

3 of those routes will have to have equipment change. I'm guessing YYZ-MUC will go 787-9. I read in another forum YYZ-FCO might go 77W. No idea for the third one? All those routes in the summer are very busy so any one of them could easily get upgrade to 787-9.

In AC's press release about YYZ-ICN, it specifically mentions YYC-LHR, YYC-FRA and YYC-NRT will be 787 routes in 2016. When in 2016 though? The news release wasn't clear... But if it is by summer, there are two frames freed up right there.

And yes, YYZ-FCO is now showing 77W next summer.

thenoflyzone Nov 2, 2015 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourkky (Post 7219540)
They have 8 A333 and 11 routes with it:
.
.
.
9-YUL-YVR
.
.

This route doesn't need a dedicated A333.

You have to understand that AC can easily operate 9 or more routes with only 8 planes, if one of the routes is short, such as YUL-YVR. It's all about fleet planning and adequate shuffling between hubs, all in the name of efficiency and increased fleet utilization.

YUL-Europe-YUL is gone and done with in under 16-17h. That still leaves 5 to 6 hours during a day when that A333 can operate a domestic leg, such as to YYZ or YVR.

Bourkky Nov 2, 2015 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7219600)
This route doesn't need a dedicated A333.

You have to understand that AC can easily operate 9 or more routes with only 8 planes, if one of the routes is short, such as YUL-YVR. It's all about fleet planning and adequate shuffling between hubs, all in the name of efficiency and increased fleet utilization.

Actually this one does, that's why I put it there. Its the only AC A333 YVR sees too. Leaving YUL at 18h35, it is flying at the same time all the other ones are. The plane sleeps in YVR and come backs the next day at 16h30. including the layover in YVR, that makes 22hours.

Klazu Nov 2, 2015 7:03 PM

Last week I had the opportunity to visit the YVR corporate offices and they had this model in their lobby. I highlighted the planned new extension in red. All photos taken with a cell phone.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c..._laajennus.jpg

There is a model of the airport today on the observation platform.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c...yleiskuva1.jpg

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c...yleiskuva2.jpg

Panorama from the domestic terminal observation platform. This was taken during noon, so there was not many planes in the bay.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c..._panoraama.jpg

Considering how beautiful the airport is, the flight control tower is an ugly beast.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c...johtotorni.jpg

Domestic terminal. The YVR corporate offices are located in that glass structure.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c...terminaali.jpg

Waiting to board SkyTrain back to city.

http://vuosiamaailmalla.fi/blog/wp-c...r_skytrain.jpg

thenoflyzone Nov 2, 2015 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourkky (Post 7219843)
Actually this one does, that's why I put it there. Its the only AC A333 YVR sees too. Leaving YUL at 18h35, it is flying at the same time all the other ones are. The plane sleeps in YVR and come backs the next day at 16h30. including the layover in YVR, that makes 22hours.

Wow, that's a waste of an A333 !

What's funny in all of this is the fact that YUL will see the most A333 operations next summer, and yet the A333 flight crews are based in YYZ and YVR.

Surrealplaces Nov 2, 2015 10:01 PM

Hey guys off topic from YYC, but an avgeek type of question nonetheless ;)

Does anyone recall a time when Canadian flights to Cuba couldn't fly over U.S. Airspace?

G.S MTL Nov 2, 2015 10:18 PM

YUL. Updated and clearer version :)

http://s14.postimg.org/rkkyan0qp/yul.jpg

begratto Nov 2, 2015 10:48 PM

Great list! But why wouldn't you include Copa?

kwoldtimer Nov 2, 2015 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 7220391)
Great list! But why wouldn't you include Copa?

This was raised earlier - COPA flies to Panama City, which is in North America, so not intercontinental.

G.S MTL Nov 2, 2015 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 7220400)
This was raised earlier - COPA flies to Panama City, which is in North America, so not intercontinental.

Thanks for clearing it up! Hehehe...intercontinental !! Just like I didn't include Aeromexico.

G.S MTL Nov 3, 2015 12:17 AM

Montreal Trudeau airport...International jetty expansion (orange to the left ) should be completed by 2016 I believe....the USA trans boarder expansion will begin in a few years I believe ;) here u can see the international (blue) domestic (red) and trans border (green) gates ;)

http://s1.postimg.org/bha41mipp/image.png

Trans border expansion in orange at the bottom 2018 it says

http://s17.postimg.org/ipyt8hbjh/image.png




If anyone is interested 2014 annual report YUL http://www.admtl.com/sites/default/files/RA2014-A.pdf

And 2013 future expansion/plan http://www.admtl.com/sites/default/f...al_12-2013.pdf
Tried to find the English version and I can't seem to find it again ;( if anyone has it please post.

Johnny Aussie Nov 3, 2015 4:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 7218795)
The top 5 as of September

1. YYZ: 27,982,740 (+6.9% YTD) AS OF AUGUST
2. YVR: 15,609,226 (+4.8% YTD)
3. YUL: 11,973,423 (+4.4% YTD)
4. YYC: 11,762,816 (+1.8% YTD)
5. YEG: 5,510,302 (-0.8% YTD)

Just updated for YVR September stats.

YVR is up over 700,000 passengers YTD compared to 2014. Over 530,000 of that increase is total international.

September saw particulary strong Asia Pacific growth which surged an impressive 12.3% compared to Sept 2014.

YVR is on its way to smashing through the 20 million barrier and obviously YYZ will just turbo past 40 million.

From what I have seen, read and heard, this growth will certainly continue into 2016.

halifaxboyns Nov 3, 2015 6:03 AM

Looks like YEG is losing two routes. AC announced today that YEG-LHR will not be renewed and AA announced it was dropping the YEG-DFW route.

Johnny Aussie Nov 3, 2015 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns (Post 7220837)
Looks like YEG is losing two routes. AC announced today that YEG-LHR will not be renewed and AA announced it was dropping the YEG-DFW route.

And now YEG-YQR on AC too.

Lately, YEG has seen other transborder routes suffer with AA dropping LAX and some routes taking hits with frequency reductions like UA to ORD and IAH and AA to PHX. AA really looked promising but will soon be down to just one daily flight. Westjet has not added any transborder flights in about two years now from YEG. The transborder numbers being released by YEG are reflecting these draw downs.

The good news is DL is launching SEA soon and this should ramp up to twice daily next summer.


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