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-   -   Albina Vision / Rose Quarter Redevelopment (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152548)

tworivers Oct 23, 2013 11:34 PM

This is what Lynn Lashbrook has to say about Memorial Coliseum (full article here):

Quote:

PBJ: Why Memorial Coliseum?

Lashbrook: But Barry Smith has identified something unique. The Veterans Memorial Coliseum is a urinal. I’m embarrassed that people think it needs to be preserved. We need to honor vets another way, the right way.
I'm embarrassed for him that he apparently has so much respect for Barry Smith :koko:

2oh1 Oct 24, 2013 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvpcvm (Post 6313438)
Is it just me? Baseball doesn't seem very Portland.

I have to admit, the sports scene is one thing I don't understand about Portland. This should be a baseball city. But instead, it's a town for basketball? I don't get it. We have such marvelous baseball weather. And the relaxed vibe of the city fits the sport so well. I'm not surprised at all that soccer is doing so well here. I am surprised that baseball isn't.

Eugenepdx Oct 24, 2013 3:34 PM

Well having worked at the Coliseum as a Utility Worker, i can honestly say that it is time to tear it down. I've walked around, climbed up and down, crawled in and out of every little crevice you can imagine inside of the Coliseum and one thing i can say is that, it is old.
Imagine your trying to get ready for a hockey game and all of a sudden, plywood falls from the rafters because of the heavy rain that is hitting the roof. Or imagine your trying to get ready for the Rose Festival Parade but have to patch up 3 holes on the main floor because the ground itself is so old and cracked, a float rolling over one of the holes might actually sink in. The building is just not worth saving.
I think the only ones who are trying to save the Coliseum are the ones that went to shows and concerts there back in the 70's and 80's, or just like the building because of its "all glass" exterior.
So again, the building is not worth saving, there are other ways to remember veterans, whether its a baseball stadium, condos, a 35 story tower, whatever it is, theres other ways of doing it, but the Coliseum is not the way to go.

Photogeric Oct 24, 2013 3:56 PM

I don't think this overrated structure is going anywhere anytime soon....

A city spokeswoman said the new council directed staff to break apart the agreement and renegotiate individual operating and renovation pieces for the iconic Rose Quarter structure, home to the Portland Trail Blazers before they moved to what is now Moda Center. ...

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...next-june.html

cab Oct 24, 2013 4:46 PM

Its the architecture community. They talk a good game, but when push comes to shove to show up and actually do something, they go missing. They pushed hard to keep this building, where are they now? They should be leading the charge. I do feel the structure has merit as an architecture piece, but unless a function can be identified and paid for do we really need to keep it around for form? I kind of feel sometimes architects forget function and get too obsessed with form.

eric cantona Oct 24, 2013 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab (Post 6314212)
Its the architecture community. They talk a good game, but when push comes to shove to show up and actually do something, they go missing. They pushed hard to keep this building, where are they now? They should be leading the charge. I do feel the structure has merit as an architecture piece, but unless a function can be identified and paid for do we really need to keep it around for form? I kind of feel sometimes architects forget function and get too obsessed with form.

they're still around, no-one's gone missing. just because it's not on the front page doesn't mean that nothing's happening. renovation plans have been drawn up (BOORA?) and it is now a funding issue. what do you expect out of the architecture community at this juncture?

I find it really curious that there are so many in this community that seem to DESPISE the MC. I don't think it's an iconic structure, but appreciate many of the design elements. it certainly has a use, if properly maintained and cared for. tearing this down would be beyond silly, in my personal view.

beyond that, the area available for an MLB stadium is simply not enough in the RQ. it's great to maximize the existing infrastructure (parking and transit primarily) but to attempt to shoehorn a massive structure like this is foolhardy. especially considering the amount of land available across the street at the Blanchard property. that would provide enough room for the stadium and the additional parking that would be needed, while still being able to utilize the RQ facilities and transit options.

but the biggest question is whether MLB in PDX would actually fly long term. once the honeymoon is over then it comes down to population, disposable income and corporate spending. we are considerably deficient in all of those areas from a major sports franchise perspective. are we truly a major league city, or are we really, really (really) hoping to be? hope don't pay the bills.

maccoinnich Oct 24, 2013 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 6314285)
renovation plans have been drawn up (BOORA?)

It's Opsis. Although maybe it's a collaboration involving multiple firms.

urbanlife Oct 24, 2013 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 6314285)
they're still around, no-one's gone missing. just because it's not on the front page doesn't mean that nothing's happening. renovation plans have been drawn up (BOORA?) and it is now a funding issue. what do you expect out of the architecture community at this juncture?

I find it really curious that there are so many in this community that seem to DESPISE the MC. I don't think it's an iconic structure, but appreciate many of the design elements. it certainly has a use, if properly maintained and cared for. tearing this down would be beyond silly, in my personal view.

beyond that, the area available for an MLB stadium is simply not enough in the RQ. it's great to maximize the existing infrastructure (parking and transit primarily) but to attempt to shoehorn a massive structure like this is foolhardy. especially considering the amount of land available across the street at the Blanchard property. that would provide enough room for the stadium and the additional parking that would be needed, while still being able to utilize the RQ facilities and transit options.

but the biggest question is whether MLB in PDX would actually fly long term. once the honeymoon is over then it comes down to population, disposable income and corporate spending. we are considerably deficient in all of those areas from a major sports franchise perspective. are we truly a major league city, or are we really, really (really) hoping to be? hope don't pay the bills.

I don't think Portland could handle a MLB team, as it is now Seattle needs to use Portland when including their numbers to support a team. I would like to see Portland get back a minor league baseball team (though the Hillsboro Hops do technically count) and maybe an NHL team. But there is more than enough fan support for the Blazers and the Timbers.

2oh1 Oct 25, 2013 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 6314285)
I find it really curious that there are so many in this community that seem to DESPISE the MC. I don't think it's an iconic structure, but appreciate many of the design elements. it certainly has a use...

Please tell us what that use is, because I have no idea, and those booking the venue clearly have no idea either since the MC sits mostly unused or severely under-used. So much money and effort has been poured into figuring out what to do with the MC during the past 18 years, and each plan fizzled out. But hey, if you have the answer, by all means, let us all know. The main use for the MC is assemblies. ASSEMBLIES. It's crazy how much land - how much amazingly prime land - is being eaten up by that structure and its parking.

Personally, I love the look of the MC and I appreciate it's historic significance. But it's under-used and often not used at all. It isn't prepared to withstand a quake and there certainly isn't money around to fix that, especially since no one has been able to even find a proper use for the thing. And let's not even bother talking about energy efficiency. HA!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 6314285)
the area available for an MLB stadium is simply not enough in the RQ.

You might want to tell that to the representatives involved with MLB who came here, evaluated the site and deemed it acceptable. But, hey, what do they know, right?

I'd be glad to see Memorial Coliseum come down and be replaced by a baseball stadium, even if it's minor league.

My prediction is that the MC will sit as it is now, under-utilized, mostly empty, for decades. When a major quake hits, it'll be damaged beyond repair. And then, finally, something marvelous will happen on that site. I hope I'm wrong though. It's a gorgeous structure, but I hope it gets leveled, the sooner the better.


Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 6314285)
but the biggest question is whether MLB in PDX would actually fly long term. once the honeymoon is over then it comes down to population, disposable income and corporate spending. we are considerably deficient in all of those areas from a major sports franchise perspective. are we truly a major league city, or are we really, really (really) hoping to be? hope don't pay the bills.

I agree completely, but I don't view that as a reason to keep the MC. Whether or not Portland can support major league baseball has nothing to do with the fact that the MC sits mostly unused or under-used.

urbanlife Oct 25, 2013 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1 (Post 6315060)
Please tell us what that use is, because I have no idea, and those booking the venue clearly have no idea either since the MC sits mostly unused or severely under-used. So much money and effort has been poured into figuring out what to do with the MC during the past 18 years, and each plan fizzled out. But hey, if you have the answer, by all means, let us all know. The main use for the MC is assemblies. ASSEMBLIES. It's crazy how much land - how much amazingly prime land - is being eaten up by that structure and its parking.

Personally, I love the look of the MC and I appreciate it's historic significance. But it's under-used and often not used at all. It isn't prepared to withstand a quake and there certainly isn't money around to fix that, especially since no one has been able to even find a proper use for the thing. And let's not even bother talking about energy efficiency. HA!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!!!




You might want to tell that to the representatives involved with MLB who came here, evaluated the site and deemed it acceptable. But, hey, what do they know, right?

I'd be glad to see Memorial Coliseum come down and be replaced by a baseball stadium, even if it's minor league.

My prediction is that the MC will sit as it is now, under-utilized, mostly empty, for decades. When a major quake hits, it'll be damaged beyond repair. And then, finally, something marvelous will happen on that site. I hope I'm wrong though. It's a gorgeous structure, but I hope it gets leveled, the sooner the better.




I agree completely, but I don't view that as a reason to keep the MC. Whether or not Portland can support major league baseball has nothing to do with the fact that the MC sits mostly unused or under-used.

I have only heard the PPS building being a good location for a MLB stadium, I have never heard of MC being a large enough space for a MLB stadium. It barely could hold a small minor league baseball stadium.

2oh1 Oct 25, 2013 4:42 AM

Isn't that the site they were talking about here?

tworivers Oct 25, 2013 5:16 AM

Everyone can argue about whether or not MC should be demolished until the cows come home. It's a protected structure and it's not going to be torn down, period. Not even for a giant Salt & Straw with a spinning ice cream cone on top.

Mind you, I'd love to see it creatively re-purposed and even significantly altered for the right project. High speed rail station? Contemporary art museum? Portland isn't even close to that kind of game, though. Too timid, too poor, too provincial. Either way, it would continue our ugly history of cultural shortsightedness if we simply wiped it off the map.

Also, it may indeed come down in a massive earthquake (from what I've read, more likely all the glass will come off). That will be the least of our worries, seeing as just about every un-reinforced masonry structure will be toast, probably killing thousands of people and completely altering the Portland we know forever. At that point --all the vintage bridges down, what's left of historic Portland gone, thousands of people dead, massive population loss-- I'm not sure if I'd care what, if anything, gets built in its place.

bvpcvm Oct 25, 2013 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers (Post 6315231)
Not even for a giant Salt & Straw with a spinning ice cream cone on top.

Now THAT I could get behind! :)

eric cantona Oct 25, 2013 4:08 PM

@ 2oh1: a better analysis of the MC situation is here:

http://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/15...ssal-conundrum

my understanding is that the Opsis plans (thanks maccoinnich) were supposedly completed late last year, which is where the $31.5m figure came from, but I'm not 100% certain of that. bottom line is that the MC is currently being used, but the clusterfucky bureaucracy that is part and parcel of this city is making it extraordinarily difficult to KNOW anything about what's possible or probable.

I believe that the MC has a place due to it's size and location for a variety of events, just as it is now. with upgrades it will be an even more attractive draw for similar events. can it be profitable? ask an economist. or better yet, ask the City to do a better job of due diligence for the MC and the RQ. I've heard wildly divergent estimates on cost, ROI, etc. throughout this 'debate', and put little faith in them since the two sides of this question (MC or not to MC) are as polarized and vitriolic as MSNBC and Fox.

check out the latest planning efforts for the area by the City here:

http://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/415852

pg. 26 has some graphics showing the potential for the RQ and vicinity that is consistent with the majority of the latest thinking about the types and layout of uses.

cab Oct 25, 2013 4:20 PM

When the architecture community makes the case to save this building, it somehow became the cities problem to figure out a business venture? This is the problem. Fine, its an architecture jewel decreed by the architects, let them find a business model that is profitable. Instead they force the hand of the city and hand them a white elephant with a built in excuse when it fails. Oh it was the clusterfucky bureaucracy that did it in. BS, it was the private architect firms that didn't have a workable business plan other than "its a beautiful glass jewel box, save it" They didn't find any private partners or business that made sense, did they?. I'm so tired of the government blame game. No private entity has stepped up to save this beast. If you are going force the hand of government to save it, than deal with the public process.

2oh1 Oct 25, 2013 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab (Post 6315565)
When the architecture community makes the case to save this building, it somehow became the cities problem to figure out a business venture? This is the problem.

Exactly.

And it's a similar problem in cities with these old arenas. In many cases, there simply isn't a use for them and resources are being wasted in trying to figure out what to do with them. This problem isn't unique to Portland. And to say the MC is being used isn't just laughable. It's insulting. The MC's main use is assemblies, and the city loses money every year on the thing. It's a beautiful structure without a purpose, and it gets in the way of every plan to rejuvenate the Rose Quarter.

zilfondel Oct 27, 2013 7:46 AM

Memorial Coliseum hosting 400,000 to 450,000 visitors/year is hardly a "useless" or unused building. I do not understand the rhetoric on this forum regarding the MC, when I read comments that are against any demolition of historic brick buildings downtown, regardless of how significant they are, but call for the demolition of one of our most iconic buildings in the city. I have been to several events this past year at the MC alone. It does need a renovation; any building 50+ years old needs one!!

Mayor Hales really needs to foot the bill for the renovation. Buildings continuously degrade and fall apart the moment they are built. They are all money pits - and their upkeep must be funded, otherwise you will end up like Detroit. You know the old saying? "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Sustainability wise, its a no-brainer to spend the effort and actually get it renovated and programmed properly. Stop with the idiotic rhetoric, FUD and pipe dreams; this building can function very well as part of our entertainment venue area known as the Rose Quarter.

Note that MLB or baseball does not appear once in the draft NNE Quadrant Plan document. More importantly, the original plan for MLB by HOK & Fosler was for it to be built to the north of the RQ & Broadway bridge (Blanchard Property), where there was more room. Anyway, last time I heard it may be 10-20 years before MLB had a team open to moving. Why would they move to Portland? An unproven market without a viable site?

I suggest re-reading Brian Libby's coverage of the stories from his archives: http://chatterbox.typepad.com/portla...rial-coliseum/

And the MLB stadium plan: http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com...um_concept.htm

Opsis MC page:
http://www.opsisarch.com/blog/projec...ial-coliseum/#

Quote:

Originally Posted by cab
When the architecture community makes the case to save this building, it somehow became the cities problem to figure out a business venture? This is the problem.

BS. The city owns the MC, and architecture firms don't work for free (they also don't write business plans). The city listened to the public, which did not want the building destroyed. They need to have the balls to actually DO SOMETHING and not twiddle their thumbs for the next 5 years. Jesus, how long have they thought about moving forward on the Convention Center Hotel? 10 years? This city has serious leadership issues - as in it doesn't have any.

zilfondel Oct 27, 2013 7:50 AM

Aaaaanyways, the latest news on the MC:

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizjournals.com
New Veterans Memorial Coliseum plan due next June
Oct 24, 2013

The city of Portland is revising terms of a $31.5 million deal to renovate Veterans Memorial Coliseum after coming close to approving it last November.
The city council assigned the matter to the Office of Finance and Management last spring after Mayor Charlie Hales took over and several newcomers joined the council.
Adams and the prior council nearly approved the renovation deal at Christmas, but stepped back when the Portland Winterhawks were sanctioned by the Western Hockey League. The hockey team was to contribute $10 million to the renovation.
A city spokeswoman said the new council directed staff to break apart the agreement and renegotiate individual operating and renovation pieces for the iconic Rose Quarter structure, home to the Portland Trail Blazers before they moved to what is now Moda Center.
The city signed off on a new two-year operating agreement with Portland Arena Management in May.
The council set a June 2014 deadline for the OFM to return to the council with a new proposal, which will include potential new funding sources.
Veterans Memorial Coliseum, which was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 2009, is back on the public radar this week after a group working to recruit Major League Baseball identified it as a favorite site for a future baseball stadium.
Any move to remove the beloved glass box will raise stiff opposition from its fans in the architectural and veteran community. Too, its historic register listing ensures any proposal will be thoroughly vetted by the city’s Historic Landmarks Commission.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...next-june.html

Eugenepdx Oct 27, 2013 6:58 PM

400-450,000 people annually, you can't be serious. I would say that number is closer to 200,000 visitors annually. The only major events there are FrightTown, the comic book show and the OSAA events. Maybe that's just a little over 100,000 visitors combined. Those numbers haven't changed since I started working there in 2002.

This building needs to get bulldozed and made way for something new, different and exciting.

davehogan Oct 27, 2013 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugenepdx (Post 6317488)
400-450,000 people annually, you can't be serious. I would say that number is closer to 200,000 visitors annually. The only major events there are FrightTown, the comic book show and the OSAA events. Maybe that's just a little over 100,000 visitors combined. Those numbers haven't changed since I started working there in 2002.

This building needs to get bulldozed and made way for something new, different and exciting.

If the Winterhawks attract 10,000 people per home game (that was near their average last season), that's 360,000 people a year to start with, and doesn't count preseason or post season. Some of those are played at the Rose Garden, but that's still a significant number of people just for one team.


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