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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

spoonman Apr 14, 2012 5:26 PM

Anyone been to this site? It details the vision for new Trolley/Subway routes through 2050.

http://www.sandiegorailproject.com/

Derek Apr 14, 2012 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 5666375)
Anyone been to this site? It details the vision for new Trolley/Subway routes through 2050.

http://www.sandiegorailproject.com/

Some of those lines make too much sense.



They'll never happen.

mello Apr 14, 2012 6:59 PM

^^^ Question regarding this kind of thing, where is LA getting all of the money to build its rail projects the last few years? We are struggling to build that rinky dink line up to UTC that already has a right of way for most of its length and they are building stuff like gang busters.... What gives, LA is broke as shit just like the City of SD so how are they able to have all of those funds?

spoonman Apr 14, 2012 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5666461)
^^^ Question regarding this kind of thing, where is LA getting all of the money to build its rail projects the last few years? We are struggling to build that rinky dink line up to UTC that already has a right of way for most of its length and they are building stuff like gang busters.... What gives, LA is broke as shit just like the City of SD so how are they able to have all of those funds?

LA freeways are very neglected and in need of maintenance. SD seems to be balancing roads and rail more equally. Orange County is focused solely on roads.

mello Apr 14, 2012 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 5666548)
LA freeways are very neglected and in need of maintenance. SD seems to be balancing roads and rail more equally. Orange County is focused solely on roads.

True, but really the only thing we have been doing lately is expanding the 15. The 5 hasn't begun its expansion yet. The 78 could also be widened from Vista through the 15, that has become a terrible backup both east and west bound.

Has the 52 been extended to the 67 yet? Anyhow you didn't really answer my question as to where the money is coming from for this LA rail boom.

OneMetropolis Apr 14, 2012 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 5666548)
LA freeways are very neglected and in need of maintenance. SD seems to be balancing roads and rail more equally. Orange County is focused solely on roads.

Thats really not the reason. Huge funds were used to fix up the 405 freeway in LA like a year ago, and it was dubbed carrmageddon, and I am sure they also have other projects and money being used to fix up their plethora of freeways as well. It's beacause of a measure that was passed in LA like years ago called Measure R, which raises taxes to help pay for transportation projects in LA. Also their mayor has huge support for transportation development, and has made a measure called 30/10 which is like 30 projects in ten years which would get funding from the government, as LA pays it back with the money made from Measure R. So basically like a pay check in advance.

mello Apr 14, 2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneMetropolis (Post 5666603)
Thats really not the reason. Huge funds were used to fix up the 405 freeway in LA like a year ago, and it was dubbed carrmageddon, and I am sure they also have other projects and money being used to fix up their plethora of freeways as well. It's beacause of a measure that was passed in LA like years ago called Measure R, which raises taxes to help pay for transportation projects in LA. Also their mayor has huge support for transportation development, and has made a measure called 30/10 which is like 30 projects in ten years which would get funding from the government, as LA pays it back with the money made from Measure R. So basically like a pay check in advance.

So why hasn't anyone floated a measure like this in San Diego. It is obviously working just 120 miles to our North "hello McFly." Pass a measure and boom rail up the arse lol. :shrug:

OneMetropolis Apr 15, 2012 12:09 AM

Not enough effort on San Diego's part I am guessing.

spoonman Apr 15, 2012 3:26 AM

My perspective

What I was getting at in my post was that priorities are the driving factor in getting these projects done (or envisioned). LA's priorities are not in freeway building, which is how they've been able to shift funds and pass measures.

LA has not held freeways as a priority since the freeway revolts of the 70's. Their traffic is as bad as it is because many of the envisioned routes were never built. LA largely stopped execution of it's vision due to revolts and changing priorities. Unfortunately that change in priorities somehow evolved into total neglect and apathy. This neglect has made the existing freeways unable to stay current with demand, as have SD and OC freeways. In contrast, San Diego has nearly completed it's long term freeway system envisioned in the 40's and 50's. So has Orange County.

As far as the 405 goes, adding one lane in each direction is a band-aid and a joke. Another example of neglect is the 5 from downtown LA to the OC county line. There the 5 are only 3 lanes each way. There are very few major freeway projects underway in LA, as freeway projects don't fit the progressive agenda. The mantra is let the freeways rot until people embrace rail as the solution (not that I think it's not viable).

I agree more needs to be done in SD to accelerate rail growth such as passing a measure like a one-cent sales tax increase. My point though was that everything is just a matter of priorities (not that this is something we don't already know), and LA has probably been able to push further quicker because major new freeway projects are a non-starter.

As far as SD's recent freeway progress goes, I actually believe SANDAG and Caltrans have done a good job. Some major recent and ongoing projects include:

-15 additional managed lanes
-Completed the 56 freeway (better late than never)
-Completed the 52 extension to the 67 freeway
-Completed the 125 extension to the border
-Starting work on the 905 extension to the Otay Mesa crossing
-Extending carpool lanes onto the 805 with new Direct Access ramps at Sorrento Vly Rd

I wish they would add the additional connector ramps needed for the 56...that's my peeve.

bmfarley Apr 15, 2012 3:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5666461)
^^^ Question regarding this kind of thing, where is LA getting all of the money to build its rail projects the last few years? We are struggling to build that rinky dink line up to UTC that already has a right of way for most of its length and they are building stuff like gang busters.... What gives, LA is broke as shit just like the City of SD so how are they able to have all of those funds?

Here is why:
LA has funding with Measure R, a local half-cent sales tax measure
10 million people as a tax base
Decision to focus on mass transit

SD County has:
A bit less for sales tax for transportation
3 million people as a tax base
Decision to focus on highways for improvements

kpexpress Apr 15, 2012 7:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5665107)
Only 5 floors? This looks like a decent project for Sherman Heights of Barrio Logan but in my opinion not downtown worthy. Very uninspiring, and dull. I think anything built in downtown should be atleast 7 to 8 stories to get that Madrid/Paris streetscape going.

5 floors above podium. Any taller and they go into a different type construction = more $$. Bare minimum in this economy.

202_Cyclist Apr 15, 2012 1:06 PM

OneMetropolis:
Quote:

Thats really not the reason. Huge funds were used to fix up the 405 freeway in LA like a year ago, and it was dubbed carrmageddon, and I am sure they also have other projects and money being used to fix up their plethora of freeways as well. It's beacause of a measure that was passed in LA like years ago called Measure R, which raises taxes to help pay for transportation projects in LA. Also their mayor has huge support for transportation development, and has made a measure called 30/10 which is like 30 projects in ten years which would get funding from the government, as LA pays it back with the money made from Measure R. So basically like a pay check in advance.
You're correct that LA County voters agreed to raise their sales tax by one-half cent in 2008 to pay for transportation (mostly transit but some highway) improvements: http://www.metro.net/projects/measurer/. The 30/10 Plan would be a federal commitment to provide low-interest loans to LA County to be paid back with the Measure R sales tax revenue over several decades. Although Antonio Villarigosa has articulately and forcefully been advocating this to Congress, it has so far gone largely nowhere, with the Republicans in Congress more focused on how they can provide more tax loopholes to billionaires and oil companies, than on how we can build (or even maintain) our infrastructure. LA's Crenshaw line, which would connect to LAX (or near LAX) has received a $546M loan from the federal government in 2010. Construction on the Crenshaw line is expected to begin this summer.

As noted above, part of the difference between San Diego and Los Angeles is different priorities of the local political leadership. Former mayor Tom Bradley had a very large role in getting the Red Line built (http://metroprimaryresources.info/25...s-ground/1755/) and today, the commitment from Antonio Villariagosa has been essential to the planning and construction of these other lines for LA County.

Another reason for the difference is likely political commitment in Washington. LA County has a much larger and more unified congressional delegation in Washington than San Diego County does and with more seniority. Here is a map showing Federal Transit Administration New Starts funding in FY2010:

http://www.iwillride.org/wp-content/.../09/image4.png
Image courtesy of www.iwillride.org.

Los Angeles County has received a small amount of New Starts transit funding, but as you can see, even cities like Salt Lake, Phoenix, and Houston, all of these not usually thought of having extensive transit systems, have received considerable New Starts funding in recent years. An effort by local citizens and the local business community to inform the San Diego congressional delegation about the importance of transit would probably be helpful.

S.DviaPhilly Apr 15, 2012 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 5666991)
5 floors above podium. Any taller and they go into a different type construction = more $$. Bare minimum in this economy.

Then I say wait do not build it, it is boring and pretty drab and ugly. 13th and Market is 6 stories and even though it is not my favorite at least it has some character. Why build the "bare minimum" in our city? San Diego is way too nice for bare minimum. Bare minimum to me is the building between Park and 13th off Market where the 711 is and that building is hideous! (my apologies if anyone lives in there)

Not sure why, but I understand that construction loans are going through a lot easier for rental buildings than condo buildings. We need more condo buildings asap, there are only 175 condos on the market in all of 92101! A couple years ago there was well over 600! If SD keeps building these low-rise rentals, soon that is what downtown will turn into, or at least East Village and thats just not right!

mello Apr 15, 2012 8:03 PM

So what do you guys think is there any political will for a Measure R type of program for San Diego County? I understand LA County is bigger etc. but if they have 4 to 5 lines under construction you think San Diego could have 2 going right now. What is going on with our city leadership?

S.DviaPhilly: I agree the bare minimum is not what SD deserves and this building should definitely be taller and of better quality. Look at Vancouver, Melbourne, and Toronto proposals and current U/C's that is what we need here not this crap. I disagree with you as far as rentals though, San Diego County absolutely needs a ton of new quality rental housing units as well as for sale condos.

kpexpress Apr 16, 2012 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.DviaPhilly (Post 5667204)
Then I say wait do not build it, it is boring and pretty drab and ugly. 13th and Market is 6 stories and even though it is not my favorite at least it has some character. Why build the "bare minimum" in our city? San Diego is way too nice for bare minimum. Bare minimum to me is the building between Park and 13th off Market where the 711 is and that building is hideous! (my apologies if anyone lives in there)

Not sure why, but I understand that construction loans are going through a lot easier for rental buildings than condo buildings. We need more condo buildings asap, there are only 175 condos on the market in all of 92101! A couple years ago there was well over 600! If SD keeps building these low-rise rentals, soon that is what downtown will turn into, or at least East Village and thats just not right!

The downtown community plan (the governing document for all development downtown [among other documents]) sets out the min and max for density. If they're within that range what's keeping them from moving forward? The argument would be more effective if you advocate against the community plan (something I want to do at CCAC Predesign this year) as opposed to the building itself.

OneMetropolis Apr 16, 2012 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 5666846)
My perspective

What I was getting at in my post was that priorities are the driving factor in getting these projects done (or envisioned). LA's priorities are not in freeway building, which is how they've been able to shift funds and pass measures.

LA has not held freeways as a priority since the freeway revolts of the 70's. Their traffic is as bad as it is because many of the envisioned routes were never built. LA largely stopped execution of it's vision due to revolts and changing priorities. Unfortunately that change in priorities somehow evolved into total neglect and apathy. This neglect has made the existing freeways unable to stay current with demand, as have SD and OC freeways. In contrast, San Diego has nearly completed it's long term freeway system envisioned in the 40's and 50's. So has Orange County.

As far as the 405 goes, adding one lane in each direction is a band-aid and a joke. Another example of neglect is the 5 from downtown LA to the OC county line. There the 5 are only 3 lanes each way. There are very few major freeway projects underway in LA, as freeway projects don't fit the progressive agenda. The mantra is let the freeways rot until people embrace rail as the solution (not that I think it's not viable).

I agree more needs to be done in SD to accelerate rail growth such as passing a measure like a one-cent sales tax increase. My point though was that everything is just a matter of priorities (not that this is something we don't already know), and LA has probably been able to push further quicker because major new freeway projects are a non-starter.

As far as SD's recent freeway progress goes, I actually believe SANDAG and Caltrans have done a good job. Some major recent and ongoing projects include:

-15 additional managed lanes
-Completed the 56 freeway (better late than never)
-Completed the 52 extension to the 67 freeway
-Completed the 125 extension to the border
-Starting work on the 905 extension to the Otay Mesa crossing
-Extending carpool lanes onto the 805 with new Direct Access ramps at Sorrento Vly Rd

I wish they would add the additional connector ramps needed for the 56...that's my peeve.

Not true cause Measure R covers freeways in LA i.e. reason for mass freeway projects happening now in LA.

mello Apr 16, 2012 8:14 PM

Question about San Diego freeways and the connector ramps I have always wondered why: I-8 - can't go west when coming from 5 south and can't go north on 5 when going east out of Ocean Beach.

SR - 52 same scenario with I -5 Northbound access getting screwed coming from LJ and can't take it in to LJ when heading south.

SR - 56 can't go north on 5 when going westbound on 56. Can't go east onto 56 when coming south on 5.

Highway 78 - Have to sit at a stop light to take 5 south when the freeway ends in Oceanside.

I have never seen a freeway interchange in OC or LA county where you couldn't go in all directions no matter what direction you approach an interchange.

eburress Apr 16, 2012 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5668490)
Question about San Diego freeways and the connector ramps I have always wondered why: I-8 - can't go west when coming from 5 south and can't go north on 5 when going east out of Ocean Beach.

SR - 52 same scenario with I -5 Northbound access getting screwed coming from LJ and can't take it in to LJ when heading south.

SR - 56 can't go north on 5 when going westbound on 56. Can't go east onto 56 when coming south on 5.

Highway 78 - Have to sit at a stop light to take 5 south when the freeway ends in Oceanside.

I have never seen a freeway interchange in OC or LA county where you couldn't go in all directions no matter what direction you approach an interchange.

NIMBYs and preservationists, mostly.

For example, CalTrans is working on adding direct connectors at the I-5/Hwy 56 interchange, but the community (frustrated Carmel Valley moms, I imagine) is fighting them tooth and nail. They are concerned about the aesthetic of additional freeway ramps...

...ignoring the fact that there are *already* ramps on this interchange, but why worry about the details.

spoonman Apr 17, 2012 3:37 AM

It's amazing. They'd rather have cars causing traffic and polluting more on city streets than having the ramps...insane. That said, if Caltrans got the 15 Freeway project done, it can get anything done.

eburress Apr 17, 2012 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 5669000)
It's amazing. They'd rather have cars causing traffic and polluting more on city streets than having the ramps...insane. That said, if Caltrans got the 15 Freeway project done, it can get anything done.

On the bright side, I think a ramp from the southbound I-5 to the eastbound Hwy 56 will eventually happen because the two other alternatives really aren't an option. A tunnel underneath the existing exchange is cost prohibitive and they can't do a loop connector because of its impact on the nearby wetlands. So, battling Caltrans on this is futile, but it has delayed the project and cost the state additional money.


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