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-   -   What two cities do you find most similar in nearly every respect? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240041)

jd3189 Aug 19, 2019 5:25 PM

I started a thread on this more than a year ago. This is a very fun exercise.


Based on my recent time working outside San Jose and being from NYC, I find that there are a lot of similarities ( superficial and some deep) between the Bay Area and the NY Tri-State area. A central harbor and a major city and neighbors being in the the center with islands and bridges in the mix. Both are strong economic centers for their respective coasts and offer the highest urban density in the country. Of course NYC is much bigger and more dominant, but I see similar dynamics between SF and Oakland/ Manhattan and Brooklyn.

eschaton Aug 19, 2019 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 8662619)
I started a thread on this more than a year ago. This is a very fun exercise.


Based on my recent time working outside San Jose and being from NYC, I find that there are a lot of similarities ( superficial and some deep) between the Bay Area and the NY Tri-State area. A central harbor and a major city and neighbors being in the the center with islands and bridges in the mix. Both are strong economic centers for their respective coasts and offer the highest urban density in the country. Of course NYC is much bigger and more dominant, but I see similar dynamics between SF and Oakland/ Manhattan and Brooklyn.

To me, the "Oakland" of the tri-state area is pretty obviously Jersey City. Both cities are overshadowed by their neighbors. Both cities are incredibly diverse, with about equal numbers of blacks, whites, Latinos, and Asians. And both cities have an increasingly trendy downtown area which is seeing a lot of new investment.

destroycreate Aug 19, 2019 5:43 PM

Idk, Chicago and Toronto to me are essentially twins. They seem incredibly similar.

Crawford Aug 19, 2019 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAYNYC (Post 8662546)
But when I say the same with regards to New York City and Philadelphia, you go off the edge.

NYC and Philly are far more similar than Chicago and Toronto.

Chicago and Toronto developed during different eras. They're in different countries, obviously, 10 hours apart. Chicago was (arguably) the third or fourth most important city on earth when Toronto was basically a poor man's Buffalo. In contrast, NYC and Philly are neighbors that developed concurrently.

Chisouthside Aug 19, 2019 5:44 PM

Mexico City and New York City

Mexico City delegaciones function much like NYC borroughs
Pretty expansive Subway system
cultural capitals for their respective countries
absurd density
Street food all over the place
Center for capital and huge concentration of rich people
Multiple skylines(though NYCs are much taller)

Crawford Aug 19, 2019 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate (Post 8662648)
Idk, Chicago and Toronto to me are essentially twins. They seem incredibly similar.

This is a typical urban commercial corridor in Toronto's favored quarter:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yo...!4d-79.3983225

This is a typical urban commercial corridor in Chicago's favored quarter:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+...!4d-87.6587002

Do they strike you as "incredibly similar"? Is there anyplace in Chicago that looks like the Toronto streetscape? Is there anyplace in Toronto that looks like the Chicago streetscape? Nope.

tdawg Aug 19, 2019 5:51 PM

Probably Savannah and Charleston.

jtown,man Aug 19, 2019 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8662660)
This is a typical urban commercial corridor in Toronto's favored quarter:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yo...!4d-79.3983225

This is a typical urban commercial corridor in Chicago's favored quarter:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+...!4d-87.6587002

Do they strike you as "incredibly similar"? Is there anyplace in Chicago that looks like the Toronto streetscape? Is there anyplace in Toronto that looks like the Chicago streetscape? Nope.

No. But a lot of this is subjective. Maybe from the big-view from the lakes they look pretty similar but on the ground no so much.

Crawford Aug 19, 2019 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chisouthside (Post 8662652)
Mexico City and New York City

Mexico City's biggest boom era, by far, and NYC's biggest era of decline, by far, was the 1970's. So they don't look anything alike. Mexico City is mostly characterized by an era that has almost no physical record in NYC.

Mexico City is most similar to LA, with extreme decentralization, extreme postwar boom, westward wealth orientation, permanent spring-like weather, and flat valley surrounded by mountains.

LA21st Aug 19, 2019 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8662660)
This is a typical urban commercial corridor in Toronto's favored quarter:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yo...!4d-79.3983225

This is a typical urban commercial corridor in Chicago's favored quarter:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+...!4d-87.6587002

Do they strike you as "incredibly similar"? Is there anyplace in Chicago that looks like the Toronto streetscape? Is there anyplace in Toronto that looks like the Chicago streetscape? Nope.

That's not a typical corridor for Toronto's favored quarter, come on. Maybe it's main corridor, but typical? No.

Crawford Aug 19, 2019 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA21st (Post 8662673)
That's not a typical corridor for Toronto's favored quarter, come on. Maybe it's main corridor, but typical? No.

What would be a more representative commercial streetscape of Toronto's favored quarter than the Yonge corridor?

Steely Dan Aug 19, 2019 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by destroycreate (Post 8662648)
Idk, Chicago and Toronto to me are essentially twins. They seem incredibly similar.

chicago and toronto are about as "incredibly similar" as boston and DC, similar distances separate the pairs as well (~400 miles).

there's some macro-level superficial stuff - great lakes, densely populated (by north american standards), giant skylines - but beyond those 30,000' observations, the details on the ground between the two are quite a bit different, along with fairly different histories, demographics, local culture, etc.

likewise with DC and boston - big east coast cities filled with lots of US history - but they are not "essentially twins".

the urban politician Aug 19, 2019 6:09 PM

Chicago and Toronto are not similar in the least, although I can understand why, superficially, people would think so.

MonkeyRonin Aug 19, 2019 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8662678)
What would be a more representative commercial streetscape of Toronto's favored quarter than the Yonge corridor?


I mean sure, but you certainly couldn't have picked a less representative stretch of Yonge Street itself.

Toronto also doesn't really have "favourted quarters" in the way American cities do. Something like this is a bit more typical of retail corridors in Toronto (emphasis on the word retail, not the frontages of a bunch of office towers in a peripheral business district): https://goo.gl/maps/fHwqdWn5oKsouRQr7

LA21st Aug 19, 2019 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8662678)
What would be a more representative commercial streetscape of Toronto's favored quarter than the Yonge corridor?

I don't know, but you can easily see Younge is not TYPICAL for that part of Toronto by just looking at an aerial. It's just a taller, more dense Wilshire Blvd. It's easily the main corridor, but that's not the same thing as typical, obviously.

Crawford Aug 19, 2019 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin (Post 8662716)
I mean sure, but you certainly couldn't have picked a less representative stretch of Yonge Street itself.

Yonge isn't characterized by large buildings clustered around subway stops, dating from the 60's to the present?

glowrock Aug 19, 2019 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 (Post 8662548)
Cincinnati-Pittsburgh

This.

Also add Chattanooga as a little brother to those two.

Aaron (Glowrock)

glowrock Aug 19, 2019 6:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8662678)
What would be a more representative commercial streetscape of Toronto's favored quarter than the Yonge corridor?

Bloor is relatively similar to the Mag Mile of Michigan Ave., that's for sure. As for Yonge, there really aren't any true equivalents, though perhaps State St. could be relatively close?

Most of Chicago's retail streets are pretty similar to those in say the St. Lawrence Market section of Toronto, perhaps the Distillery District, those kinds of areas. More neighborhood-oriented.

Aaron (Glowrock)

JAYNYC Aug 19, 2019 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8662612)
That's because NYC and Philly differ immensely in many ways, not the least of which being shear size

You completely missed my point.

My point was that I've stated frequently here that NYC and Philly are not comparable from a development perspective (which is what you are essentially saying).

Crawford, on the other hand, believes that NYC and Philly are comparable from a development perspective, yet turns around and states that Toronto and Chicago are not.

JAYNYC Aug 19, 2019 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8662650)
Chicago was (arguably) the third or fourth most important city on earth.

Said no one, ever.


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