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Chadillaccc Jan 18, 2014 5:21 AM

I think pickering is a poor choice of location for the 2nd airport.

MTLskyline Jan 18, 2014 5:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 6411843)
YMX is mirabel I take it? I often wonder if Pickering will become Mirabel 2.0.. It seems like Pearson still has plenty of space to grow before running into issues. They can essentially still double the size of T1..

Affirmative.

It would be bad news if they built a second major international airport in Toronto (well third). That is unless Pearson was exceeding capacity beyond what they could do at the current site. I wonder how long a Pickering airport would have to wait for rail service?

One advantage Toronto's geography has is that it extends more or less in a 180 degree radius from the lake. Montreal extends in a 360 degree radius, making a location like Mirabel hard to get to for a good chunk of the population. I live in an inner suburb on the south shore, and I am close to 25km from Trudeau, but 60km from Mirabel, which would require crossing three bridges, and driving through the entire width of Montreal, Laval, and various North Shore cities before arriving in Mirabel. If I lived somewhere like Mont-Saint-Hiliare (still within Greater Montreal), I'd be talking about 90km (similar to Burlington to Pickering). It's pretty much the same distance to Plattsburgh Airport, where the flights are a lot cheaper.

Coincidentally there was a report on television about Mirabel this evening. It is owned and operated by the same non-profit organization as Trudeau Airport. Here is the link for those who are curious (or who want to practice their French) http://tva.canoe.ca/emissions/je/reportages/206001.html

A few recent pictures
http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_r...y=80&size=650x

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_r...y=80&size=650x

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_r...y=80&size=650x

Source: http://www.journaldemontreal.com/201...rogare-fantome

VIce Jan 18, 2014 5:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTLskyline (Post 6411709)
and especially YMX

The aerospace manufacturing and development / testing facilities at Mirabel get updated pretty frequently. It has quite the number of tenants, after all.

esquire Jan 18, 2014 2:47 PM

It still blows my mind that one of the biggest and best airports in Canada just sits there pretty much abandoned, aside from maybe a handful of freight and aerospace industry users. And to think that what was built was just the initial phase of what was supposed to be a much larger project.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rptdiagram.png

That said, I get the impression that an airport in Pickering would face a much different fate than Mirabel. In that case, it would be needed because Pearson is going to eventually max out its capacity. And I think there were a lot of lessons learned from Mirabel, beginning with much better connectivity between airports and city.

WhipperSnapper Jan 18, 2014 3:32 PM

Ideally, Pickering would support Durham Region and the east side of York Region. These poor guys don't even have an Ikea yet either.

Innsertnamehere Jan 18, 2014 8:55 PM

Pickering airport would be a 50km drive from Downtown, it isn't exactly close.

It may eventually be needed and I think the land should be kept for it, but I simply don't see Pearson maxing out for a long while yet. Trudeau was at a similar point that Pearson is at today.


When it opens it will need to serve discount carriers and will need a form of free express bus between it and Pearson. Maybe move Pearson freight customers to it to allow for more passenger movements at Pearson as well.

The rail line that runs to Peterborough goes right beside the site, so a rail connection is possible.

caltrane74 Jan 18, 2014 9:42 PM

If and when a Pickering Airport is built a rail connection and station can be built at the same time.

I don't see Pearson maxing out for at least another 20 to 30 years. But the land should be maintained just in case it is needed.

Policy Wonk Jan 19, 2014 10:02 AM

Pickering as it will open will be primarily a general aviation facility, which is under tremendous strain in the region between Buttonville presumably closing, bad long-term prospects for GA at YTZ and Bombardier refusing to even entertain the possibility of opening Downsview to other users.

Commercial service at Pickering is only precariously theoretical.

flipv Jan 20, 2014 5:19 PM

I'm very excited with the changes at Toronto-Pearson. The appointment of Howard Eng as CEO of the airport has brought a much needed kick in the back for the airport to offer amenities that are expected at a major global hub.

So long the boring Pearson - hello a dining and shopping paradise. Can't wait for my flight to St. Maarten in two weeks, I'll get to sample the new Duty Free shops.

-- All pictures from GTAA's Facebook page --

Vinifera:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...80027711_n.jpg

New luxury duty free shopping (long time coming, thanks Pearson)

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...68089619_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...01924765_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...99586718_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...36735372_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...87194207_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...71522107_n.jpg

Acer:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...43900044_n.jpg

Heirloom:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...19851691_n.jpg

Nobel:

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...05639805_n.jpg

Marathi:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...73367891_n.jpg

There were numerous other restaurants and smaller shops opened in the last few months (too many to post) but the change is dramatic.

As for major developments, T1 still has a bit of capacity left until further construction is needed. Based on yyzhyd on SSC - the GTAA is planning to scuttle the original expansion plan of T1 and focus on another hammerhead type pier (like Pier F) for all non-Star Alliance/Air Canada flights. This would be an international pier for non-aligned carriers. Pier F would presumably be refitted to provide a Star Alliance/Air Canada focus as it would be the primary base for this airline's operations (goes in tandem with AC's announcement to massively increase its present at YYZ and turn it into its global hub.. which I'm pretty sure it is already...)

To close it off - some ramp photos again from GTAA's FB page:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...30559386_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...44260662_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...51790157_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...93014209_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...42716581_n.jpg

SkahHigh Jan 21, 2014 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 6412093)
It still blows my mind that one of the biggest and best airports in Canada just sits there pretty much abandoned, aside from maybe a handful of freight and aerospace industry users. And to think that what was built was just the initial phase of what was supposed to be a much larger project.

What a waste of land and money it is... Plus, it'll never handle passengers again.

Trudeau is near perfect for Montreal. It is only 20 kilometers away from Downtown and still has enough land left to expand. With proximity to the Vaudreuil-Hudson Line, there is possibility of implanting a rail shuttle to Dorval Station with commuter rail frequency every 15 minutes.

With all the current and future expansions, Trudeau is good for another 20 years. After that, there is still room for expansion.

YYCguys Jan 21, 2014 5:05 PM

flipv, thank you for the information about T1. Very exciting news for users of T1! I wonder about what will be done for T3, which seems to have been forgotten in expansion plans. It is terribly overcrowded (especially the transborder side), dated looking, and down right boring. Do you have any information in that regards?

flipv Jan 21, 2014 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 6415769)
flipv, thank you for the information about T1. Very exciting news for users of T1! I wonder about what will be done for T3, which seems to have been forgotten in expansion plans. It is terribly overcrowded (especially the transborder side), dated looking, and down right boring. Do you have any information in that regards?

T3 is getting a similar dining upgrade (most of it implemented already), and apparently word is a similar retail upgrade is in the works (luxury shops, etc).

As for expansion, I doubt T3 will get any.

My thoughts are, once T1 is further expanded - T3 will be used solely for Westjet, charters and holiday destination flights. Possibly some transborder as well.

The rest of the international carriers (Air France, KLM, British Airways, etc) that are part of another alliance or are non-aligned will be moved to the expanded T1.

YYCguys Jan 21, 2014 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipv (Post 6415851)
T3 will be used solely for Westjet, charters and holiday destination flights. Possibly some transborder as well.

Westjet has tons of transborder flights, so I hope that all of Westjet's operations would be concentrated into the same terminal! Westjet also has lots of codeshares with the likes of AF, BA, etc so I would hope those codeshare partners would be allowed to reside in the same terminal as Westjet.

caltrane74 Jan 23, 2014 3:21 AM

History of Airport Expansion at Pearson International Airport previously Malton Airport

http://airchive.com/blog/wp-content/...4/01/yvr25.jpg

History of Pearson International Airport

Terminal 1 | Now Demolished, you can see it's footprint in the photo above with the blackened runway, taxiway area

http://airchive.com/blog/wp-content/.../4-300x183.png

Terminal 3

http://airchive.com/blog/wp-content/...39-300x224.jpg



January 21st, 2014

Quote:

In 2001, T3 eventually became the Eastern Canada hub for Westjet Airlines, and the YYZ home for Oneworld and SkyTeam international airlines.
The Greater Toronto Airports Authority (GTAA) took over management of YYZ in the mid-1990s from government agency Transport Canada, and continued to develop the airport’s Master Plan. The GTAA proposed to replace both the Aeroquay and Terminal 2 with a single unified terminal, which along with Terminal 3 would accommodate up to 50 million passengers per year. Along with a huge number of airside improvements, this new terminal was planned to take YYZ through to 2030. We’ll look at this next phase of YYZ’s development in Part Two of our story.
Read More Here History of Pearson International Airport

eemy Jan 23, 2014 3:25 AM

When I was a kid, we would sometimes drive to the top of the old T1 when we were in Toronto to watch all the planes. Fond memories!

Chadillaccc Jan 23, 2014 3:46 AM

Can't wait to see what Calgary's new 2 million square foot terminal is going to look like in person!

Here's a construction update! :)

http://www.cfms-alberta.com/wp-conte...oads/IFP-1.jpg
http://www.cfms-alberta.com/portfoli...ional-airport/
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5544/1...03013189_b.jpg
http://globalnews.ca/news/989093/gal...rminal/port11/
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5533/1...ce2cb723_b.jpg
YYC by Chadillaccc, on Flickr




and a render showing the scope of the project that I've never seen before...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5497/1...883235b0_b.jpg

caltrane74 Jan 23, 2014 3:57 AM

That airport configuration does not look like it maximizes space for expansion. Look at the Pearson photo above and you can see massive expansion slots for Terminal One to both the East and Northwest.

The Calgary airport looks like an future expansion would require a rebuild of the brand new terminal presently under construction. They should build a U shape that you can expand to infinitude. What is the capacity of that new terminal?

MTLskyline Jan 23, 2014 3:58 AM

I'm jealous of the Calgary expansion. I love terminals with high ceilings and lots of natural light.

One of my main complaints about Trudeau Airport is that the ceilings are low in most places (it feels like a basement or something), and there should be a lot more natural light than there currently is.

On a side note, there will be a new Panama City-Montreal service by Copa Airlines starting this June.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cop...k=MW_news_stmp

Chadillaccc Jan 23, 2014 4:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 6418579)
That airport configuration does not look like it maximizes space for expansion. Look at the Pearson photo above and you can see massive expansion slots for Terminal One to both the East and Northwest.

The Calgary airport looks like an future expansion would require a rebuild of the brand new terminal presently under construction. They should build a U shape that you can expand to infinitude. What is the capacity of that new terminal?

I'm not sure what the capacity will be, but I know it will have 5 levels and 22 new gates, including 2 two-storey gates to accommodate the A380 Superjumbo. Their website says they have taken the need for future expansion into consideration in the design, so I'm sure it will be fine. It's an entirely new terminal, not demolishing our old one. There is still tons of space. Here is a different view:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y11...r7/Runway1.jpg

YYCguys Jan 23, 2014 4:22 AM

Thanks caltrane74, for the history on YYZ. It was a very interesting read and enjoyed seeing the pictures!

I wonder if T1 and T3 in Toronto will, in the future, be physically connected somehow or if they will remain separate buildings.


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