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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

elly63 Dec 2, 2018 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396673)
Interesting how I can post NBA numbers and the discussion still ends up being about the CFL.

Because you're shit disturbing and everyone knows it. And when someone posts a negative post against MLS in retaliation, is when you bring out the delete club which you have no business in having and modding a CFL thread at the same time. You should do the honourable thing and step down if you're going to troll post.

The Kawhi effect? Are you serious? Maybe in the GTA or big time sports fans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396673)
The CFL and TSN are sort of in this together at this point: TSN has no other major properties coming up for availability any time soon and the CFL needs TSN to survive financially.

You have no idea about that, the CFL survived for years without TSN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396673)
Firstly, these are only TV numbers, an antiquated system of surveying a sports team's popularity. I post them here because they're numbers but they're not the end of any discussion. If TSN ever posted streaming/mobile numbers we would have a better indication of their social media impact as a whole for most properties. It's a shame they don't.

It's antiquated to you because the teams you support are doing so poorly and you have to rationalize it. And it's also insulting because you assume that the CFL's audience are incapable of streaming

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396673)
It's a very simplistic way of looking at things if you're assuming TV ratings are the end-all, be-all of a team's popularity or economic well-being. This isn't the 1980s anymore.

And until they figure out a way to monetize social media and the like it's the only system we have.

We get it, we know you want the CFL dead, your posts (and using the delete club) tell us that on a constant basis, I'd just like to know why. Do you really think that if the CFL is gone people will suddenly start to watch soccer?

I saw your insulting post about golf and Nascar and their demise (to you). As people mature they gravitate to golf and some also come back to the CFL. A 50 year old man playing a wannabe hoolie with the millennials at a TFC game is a friggin embarrassment, almost like an old guy trolling the bars.

elly63 Dec 2, 2018 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396661)
NBA-Raptors fans in Canada are all (apparently) young and diverse, so perhaps the bulk of their viewers are streaming cord-cutters, and don't show up in TSN's numbers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8396668)
The only possible explanation, really. Much like how the millions of TFC fans are not reflected in their infomercial tier TV ratings.

And also the inference that baby boomers don't have smart phones and lack the knowledge and ability to stream.

MonctonRad Dec 2, 2018 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396702)
And also the inference that baby boomers don't have smart phones and lack the knowledge and ability to stream.

I wouldn't say that...... :)

I really wonder how much of a revolution the "cord cutting" out there really is. When I was away from home at university in the early 1980s, I didn't have cable either. I made do with a little black & white TV with rabbit ears (that I rarely watched).

In today's connected world, there is a real need for a cell phone and an internet connection, but cable TV is still a relative luxury. I wonder if these same twenty-somethings will still be streaming everything when they are 40 years old, or will they have a cable subscription for their big screen TV

elly63 Dec 2, 2018 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8396712)
I really wonder how much of a revolution the "cord cutting" out there really is. When I was away from home at university in the early 1980s, I didn't have cable either. I made do with a little black & white TV with rabbit ears (that I rarely watched).

In today's connected world, there is a real need for a cell phone and an internet connection, but cable TV is still a relative luxury. I wonder if these same twenty-somethings will still be streaming everything when they are 40 years old, or will they have a cable subscription for their big screen TV

I think we might be living on parallel lines, more than you think. :) One of my previous careers was in IT, I know technology and have been around computers since the late 70s. But I refuse to use a cell phone, I have one, because a friend gave me an old one because I wanted to take pictures and do some other offline things. I don't have a cell phone connection because I see it as a freedom issue and the phone as a ball and chain, but that's just me, I know I differ from most on that.

But I have older family members who do have phones and have somehow figured out how to stream and this constant inference that only young people do, that pisses me off.

Unlike my statement of people turning to golf or CFL as they age (which has been quoted in articles) IMO these kids will not turn to cable TV. They have grown up in a generation of "free" movies, music and TV, why would you pay for it? To them it isn't an inconvenience as they know all the tricks how to get things for "free", as do I.

Cord cutting is a big issue as are "cord nevers" see below.

A detailed look at cord cutters and ‘cord nevers’
The latest MTM report details who has a TV subscription in Canada, who doesn't want one anymore and who never had one in the first place.
Regan Reid Media in Canada August 11, 2017

A new report from Media Technology Monitors gives a closer look at who is cutting the cord in Canada – and who never had a cord to cut in the first place.

According to the latest report, which surveyed more than 4,000 Canadians in spring 2017, three quarters of Canadians subscribe to a TV service, but penetration is declining, falling from 86% in 2005.

That leaves 25% of the population without a paid television subscription. Of those, 52% are cord cutters and 36% are “cord nevers.”

While they may not have a TV subscription, cord cutters and cord nevers are still interested in watching television. The report states that 72% of cord cutters watch TV content online, as do 68% of cord nevers, with nearly half of both groups watching on Netflix.

So who is cutting the cord in Canada? Younger Canadians between 18 and 34 (18%) are more likely to cut the cord than those between the ages of 35 and 49 (16%) and 65+ (5%). Canadians who only own a cell phone (and not a home phone) are the most likely to cut the cord at 22%.

Looking at cord nevers, students are most likely to have never subscribed to a cable package (20%), followed by 18- to 34-year-olds (18%), those with a household income of less than $35,000 (16%) and visible minorities (14%).

Of TV subscribers in Canada, 25% have cut back on their paid TV subscription within the last 12 months to try and reduce costs.

Looking ahead, the survey asked current TV subscribers how many were considering cancelling their service within the next year. Nearly a quarter (23%) responded that they were likely to do so (though the report does state that intent doesn’t always translate into action, so the number of people who actually cut the cord is likely to be a lot lower).

Of those subscribers, Anglophones are more likely to consider cutting the cord (24%) compared to Francophones (20%), with visible minorities (34%), cell phone-only homes (32%), 35- to 49-year-olds (31%) and households with kids under 12 (29%) the most likely to consider getting rid of cable.

On the other hand women (21%), Canadians over the age of 65 (14%) and those with a high school education or less (18%) have lower interest in cord cutting.

56.6 million US consumers to go without pay TV this year, as cord cutting accelerates
Sarah Perez 1 year ago

Cord-Cutting 101: What is a Cord-Never?
Curt Stelter Cut The Cord

Cord-nevers could be bigger threat to TV than cord-cutters
Watch out for the growing number of people who have never subscribed to traditional TV
Sophia Harris CBC News Nov 09, 2015

Cord-cutters and cord-nevers: Changing the way we consume content

The plot thickens...

Netflix Canada is hiking prices in its biggest increase yet
Netflix's standard plan will now cost $3 more, or $13.99 a month, while the premium package jumps to $16.99
David Friend The Canadian Press November 29, 2018

...The basic plan — which does not offer high-definition video and only allows one stream — rises a dollar to $9.99 a month.

mistercorporate Dec 2, 2018 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396740)
The plot thickens...

Netflix Canada is hiking prices in its biggest increase yet
Netflix's standard plan will now cost $3 more, or $13.99 a month, while the premium package jumps to $16.99
David Friend The Canadian Press November 29, 2018

...The basic plan — which does not offer high-definition video and only allows one stream — rises a dollar to $9.99 a month.

I think it's long overdue, now they can invest in better content.

Acajack Dec 2, 2018 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396673)
Secondly, CFL teams play a limited number of games per year compared to an NHL or NBA team. The Raptors play 82 games in a regular season, so there's plenty more space for ads and ad placements as a whole regardless of viewers. Even if the Raptors average slightly less viewers than the Argos on TSN they're playing four times as many games. The Raptors play as many games as the CFL does as a whole which equates to an equal sponsorship plate for advertisers.

It's a very simplistic way of looking at things if you're assuming TV ratings are the end-all, be-all of a team's popularity or economic well-being. This isn't the 1980s anymore.



They're a death knell for the CFL because TV is their main, major source of revenue for most teams. CFL teams cannot bring in sponsorship dollars that major league sports teams can. The Raptors don't need to use TV as a crutch as much as CFL teams need to.

The amount the Raptors rake in on their jersey sponsor patch alone could pay for an entire CFL's teams wages for a full season. [Source] The CFL simply doesn't have this potential for sponsorship.

:

Thank goodness for the CFL then that their overall operating costs are nowhere near as high as they are for those other leagues: especially salaries.

I mean, I'm also a fan of a number of the really big leagues, but one thing that's refreshing about the CFL is a healthier balance between being in it for the game as opposed to be having so much titled towards business and money.

Acajack Dec 2, 2018 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396693)

And until they figure out a way to monetize social media and the like it's the only system we have.

.

Streaming's been around for a while now. Don't you find it fishy that this type of data is almost never available from broadcasters? I mean, any number of Joe Schmos in my office can provide me with a bunch of data indicators about our web and social media at the drop of a hat. I can't believe for a minute the big guys aren't totally in tune with what is going on.

BTW this is not a criticism of any specific league.

DDP Dec 2, 2018 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8393125)
It could very well happen to the NHL too. I mean, things can change fast... it was only a generation ago that NHL tickets were maybe 3x or 4x the cost of a movie ticket and it was not uncommon for a NHLer to make 120 grand.

It is definitely not written in stone that third liners will continue to command millions a year until the end of time.

I read a report that teen interest in pro sports in falling fast, mostly because of how many options teens have. So they will never follow sports like the generations did before them.

If it turns out to be true, pro sports will be in for a massive fight. Young people will likely never have cable, and probably not want to spent $100 bucks to watch a game on a regular basis.

Acajack Dec 2, 2018 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396069)
The Kawhi effect is real.

I have no idea who that is. I am Canadian and watch Sports 30 on RDS or TVA Sports more days that I don't. Maybe they do talk about him and his team but it must be towards the tail end of the broadcast when I've tuned out.

Acajack Dec 2, 2018 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396658)
Have to agree. When I read that, the first thing I thought of was that that was an average CFL regular season rating.

As I said it's all perception, the CFL is competing against it's own history, that Raptors number is a triumph for them but the start of a death knell for the CFL.

What I can't understand is why a few here so gleefully campaign to try and kill about the only true national league we have in favour of foreign products. I just don't know how or why that is hurting them.

I've often derided obsessive Canadian NFL or March Madness fandom as akin to gloating about your neighbour's hot car.

In the case of the Raptors (and to some degree the Blue Jays too) it's not quite as bad as you actually do have a team based in Canada, even if I find the "Canadian pride" angle associated with them a bit overwrought. (Hope that is the right word in English.)

But when you consider how difficult it is for Canadian clubs to win championships in these leagues (and we could say this about the NHL too perhaps), it's still kinda like gloating about your neighbour's hot car as being "yours", and once in a blue moon he might let you take it our for a spin.

EpicPonyTime Dec 2, 2018 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDP (Post 8396815)
If it turns out to be true, pro sports will be in for a massive fight. Young people will likely never have cable, and probably not want to spent $100 bucks to watch a game on a regular basis.

I want to say this will be the biggest issue facing pro sports. Even the CFL has become far too expensive for a lot of people I know. You can't make your product too expensive for young people to participate in and then sit there and wonder why no young people are fans.

theman23 Dec 2, 2018 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396835)
I've often derided obsessive Canadian NFL or March Madness fandom as akin to gloating about your neighbour's hot car.

In the case of the Raptors (and to some degree the Blue Jays too) it's not quite as bad as you actually do have a team based in Canada, even if I find the "Canadian pride" angle associated with them a bit overwrought. (Hope that is the right word in English.)

But when you consider how difficult it is for Canadian clubs to win championships in these leagues (and we could say this about the NHL too perhaps), it's still kinda like gloating about your neighbour's hot car as being "yours", and once in a blue moon he might let you take it our for a spin.

Uh, the Raptors are Toronto’s team. You’re terrible at analogies (and old and out of touch).

Acajack Dec 2, 2018 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23 (Post 8396898)
Uh, the Raptors are Toronto’s team. You’re terrible at analogies (and old and out of touch).

First time I've been subjected to ageism and not even 50 yet !

elly63 Dec 2, 2018 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396796)
Streaming's been around for a while now. Don't you find it fishy that this type of data is almost never available from broadcasters? I mean, any number of Joe Schmos in my office can provide me with a bunch of data indicators about our web and social media at the drop of a hat. I can't believe for a minute the big guys aren't totally in tune with what is going on.

BTW this is not a criticism of any specific league.

Of course people know those numbers, and they're not being released because they are likely not too flattering. And aside from that, I ran across an article on smart phone use, Millenials and GenXers are very close in their cell phone use, baby boomers aren't that far off them. Senior use was farther off but still a sizeable number. Older people that I know in their 70s use smart phones and are able to engage whatever kind of content they want even if someone has to show them how. When I configured my sister's PC to get Bell Online TV all I had to do was go to the website and it configured automatically. She could have done that herself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDP (Post 8396815)
I read a report that teen interest in pro sports in falling fast, mostly because of how many options teens have. So they will never follow sports like the generations did before them.

If it turns out to be true, pro sports will be in for a massive fight. Young people will likely never have cable, and probably not want to spent $100 bucks to watch a game on a regular basis.

I believe that, although I don't think it's an option thing. I think it's a brainwashed, wrap in bubble wrap, helicopter parent, protection thing.

I don't know how I survived being outside in the hot sun for 10 hours, no sunblock, no water bottle, no overprotective gear and no supervision, how did we survive?

I'm just watching an interview with Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson and they are talking about things that relate to that. The idiocy of things like not keeping score in kid games and the like, and how that is not constructive in forming character. Regardless, we have to be competitive in one way or another and it seems that those who haven't developed those skills are more likely to have socialist leanings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396903)
First time I've been subjected to ageism and not even 50 yet !

Ageism, I thought it was jerkism, that shot was unnecessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396819)
I have no idea who that is. I am Canadian and watch Sports 30 on RDS or TVA Sports more days that I don't. Maybe they do talk about him and his team but it must be towards the tail end of the broadcast when I've tuned out.

Unless you're a basketball fan or watch SportCentre every night nobody knows who the hell he is.

It's like me saying a guy in GTA knows who Bo Levi Mitchell is or I really used to laugh when some idiots used to say that it would be the greatest thing for soccer in Canada that Owen Hargreaves played for England. Well for one it didn't do anything except turn off a generation of players to playing for Canada and two, Joe Canadian Sixpack had no idea who the hell he was.

I've met Kyle Lowery and Marcus Stroman and because I marginally still follow sports I knew who they were but most of the people I worked with didn't have a clue.

It's just funny, because I don't know if it's getting older or the times (30 years before) but where I work now nobody talks about sports (and there's lots of young guys) and thirty years ago that's all we talked about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396835)
I've often derided obsessive Canadian NFL or March Madness fandom as akin to gloating about your neighbour's hot car.

Yeah, I had to laugh at John Shannon on PTS (and he's one of the more sensible ones) talking about "my Wolverines". Since when did Ryerson become the Wolverines :)

JHikka Dec 2, 2018 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396693)

I sure do take a lot of flak for having an opinion. :hmmm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack
Thank goodness for the CFL then that their overall operating costs are nowhere near as high as they are for those other leagues: especially salaries.

I mean, I'm also a fan of a number of the really big leagues, but one thing that's refreshing about the CFL is a healthier balance between being in it for the game as opposed to be having so much titled towards business and money.

We'll have to see how the CBA negotiations go over the offseason. The players are looking for a pay increase and some sort of job security in negotiations. I'm curious how they feel about the CFL reaching out to Mexico for players. Interesting timing to say the least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack
I have no idea who that is. I am Canadian and watch Sports 30 on RDS or TVA Sports more days that I don't. Maybe they do talk about him and his team but it must be towards the tail end of the broadcast when I've tuned out.

Kawhi Leonard. Two-time defensive player of the year, three-time first team all-star. Was exchanged for Derozan.

If you're watching RDS or TVA then it makes sense you're not being exposed. NBA/Raptors have very little visibility in Quebec, but they're covered extensively on TSN.

elly63 Dec 2, 2018 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396946)
I sure do take a lot of flak for having an opinion

Then why do you delete posts when someone has an opinion counter to yours? And why do you have an agenda to constantly portray our only true national league in a bad light? We don't go to your MLS thread and do that. Ninety percent of the time there are negative MLS posts, it is in response to your trolling shots.

And why are you screwing with my posts, did that save a lot of space? If so, you might want to edit when people reply to the same giant photo post five times on a page.

isaidso Dec 2, 2018 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8396903)
First time I've been subjected to ageism and not even 50 yet !

As self absorbed as comments like that are, in 10 years he'll have some child say the same thing to him. ;)

JHikka Dec 2, 2018 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396955)
Then why do you delete posts when someone has an opinion counter to yours? And why do you have an agenda to constantly portray our only true national league in a bad light? We don't go to your MLS thread and do that. Ninety percent of the time there are negative MLS posts, it is in response to your trolling shots.

I delete posts when they're targeted at other users specifically and derail the thread (off-topic). I am not the sole moderator that does this.

If you have an issue with my posts or what I post specifically you can send me a pm or put me on your ignore list. Public shaming other users is usually best avoided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396955)
And why are you screwing with my posts, did that save a lot of space? If so, you might want to edit when people reply to the same giant photo post five times on a page.

I merged your posts because quadruple and quintuple posting is akin to flooding/spamming threads. It tidies up threads a bit.

Anything further on this can be directed to me or other moderators via pm if you have any issues, for the sake of the on-topicness of this thread. :)

elly63 Dec 2, 2018 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8396971)
Anything further on this can be directed to me or other moderators via pm if you have any issues, for the sake of the on-topicness of this thread.

I like to keep things open and not behind closed doors :)

JHikka Dec 2, 2018 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8396992)
I like to keep things open and not behind closed doors :)

This isn't the elly and JHikka thread. :)

Moving on.

Acajack Dec 2, 2018 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8396967)
As self absorbed as comments like that are, in 10 years he'll have some child say the same thing to him. ;)

As far as me and my age, it's not really a factor. Wannabe Americanism got on my nerves when I was in my teens (1980s) and 20s (1990s) even more so than it does today. I've mellowed out a lot since then!

elly63 Dec 3, 2018 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8397015)
As far as me and my age, it's not really a factor. Wannabe Americanism got on my nerves when I was in my teens (1980s) and 20s (1990s) even more so than it does today. I've mellowed out a lot since then!

You'd think people would grow out of that but part of that is a total immersion into the myth of the American Superman.

Do you hear much about how well we do in the Winter Olympics when the Olympics aren't on? Or how we can have Canadian college athletes go straight to the NFL, which was totally unheard of years ago.

As Canadian colleges train athletes in a more "professional" manner and take that approach, the results have been evident.

Acajack Dec 3, 2018 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8397040)
Do you hear much about how well we do in the Winter Olympics when the Olympics aren't on? .

Do you mean by this, coverage of individual winter sports that are at the Olympics, outside of Olympic years?

elly63 Dec 3, 2018 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8397046)
Do you mean by this, coverage of individual winter sports that are at the Olympics, outside of Olympic years?

No, I'm talking about the fact that we have some really great athletes, which I think has gotten much better than when we were kids. We don't need to take a back seat to the Americans like we used to.

cjones2451 Dec 3, 2018 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime (Post 8396877)
I want to say this will be the biggest issue facing pro sports. Even the CFL has become far too expensive for a lot of people I know. You can't make your product too expensive for young people to participate in and then sit there and wonder why no young people are fans.

This is where I question this, in many CFL markets you can get in the door for $30-35, which is very reasonable, the BC Lions introduced a $20 GA ticket this year too
Then most of the same people slam the CFL for not having better players or paying them more.
Especially in the age of paying $6 for a Starbucks Latte or $8-10 for a drink at a bar or club

Acajack Dec 3, 2018 5:15 PM

I went to the CFL Eastern Final in Ottawa and my ticket was 49 bucks. I thought that was a pretty good price for a playoff game, all things considered. With that I had free trips on transit two hours before and two hours after the game.

esquire Dec 3, 2018 7:43 PM

"Get in" prices are fairly cheap for CFL games, but it gets pricy in a hurry if you want to sit in between the goal lines...

Acajack Dec 3, 2018 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8397766)
"Get in" prices are fairly cheap for CFL games, but it gets pricy in a hurry if you want to sit in between the goal lines...

In Ottawa, pretty much all the seats are between the goal lines! :P

blueandgoldguy Dec 3, 2018 9:15 PM

Well, I checked and esports revenue was $655 million in 2017 and expected to grow to $900 million by the end of this year.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp.../#734467896a36

Here is a breakdown of the revenues. Sponsorships have displayed some explosive growth.

http://dashboards.trefis.com/no-logi...s-grow-in-2018

Not sure what Canada's overall revenues are in that league, but I suspect at this point it might only be in the tens of millions at this point. The Aquilini Group (owner of the Canucks) owns an e-sports team. This could be the future for Canadian sports - thousands of people watching kids playing video games in an arena.;)

JHikka Dec 4, 2018 3:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8397855)
This could be the future for Canadian sports - thousands of people watching kids playing video games in an arena.;)

Obviously the stereotypes exist but a lot of professional gamers aren't that much younger than star pro athletes these days. If you're watching a high level eSports event the competitors are probably in their early to mid twenties for the most part. Depends on the game, how long it's been released, etc.

EpicPonyTime Dec 4, 2018 5:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjones2451 (Post 8397574)
This is where I question this, in many CFL markets you can get in the door for $30-35, which is very reasonable, the BC Lions introduced a $20 GA ticket this year too
Then most of the same people slam the CFL for not having better players or paying them more.
Especially in the age of paying $6 for a Starbucks Latte or $8-10 for a drink at a bar or club

My familiarity with other teams in the league is limited, but I know for the Riders a $30 ticket gets you a spot in the casual end-zone area, with an actual seat starting at $50. Obviously that excludes the cost of drinking or having a bite to eat at the game, which could come close to doubling the price of the $30 ticket. At that point I'd say the ticket prices are getting closer to "I might go to one or two games a year" territory. Much rather just use the money on a 24-pack.

Of course, like you point out, there's no easy answer to it. Can't have a league if people pay peanuts to come watch the game.

Berklon Dec 4, 2018 6:41 PM

$30 is a good price for tickets to a sporting event - at least compared to what I keep seeing.

However, to me - $30 is just too much for a single regular season game of any sport.
Less hard to take for football as the game means more (unless the team is out of the playoffs) since there aren't as many games played... but overpriced for hockey and basketball as there are 82 games. For baseball it's ludicrous. Just my opinion of course - maybe I'm a cheap bastard.

BTW, just noticed elly got suspended. I looked at his last few posts and didn't see him offending anyone - which is rare. What happened?

Acajack Dec 4, 2018 6:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8398827)

BTW, just noticed elly got suspended. I looked at his last few posts and didn't see him offending anyone - which is rare. What happened?

It's the SSP Purge!

Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do... when they come fo' you? :P

JHikka Dec 5, 2018 3:44 PM

Forbes has released their updated NHL Team valuations:
https://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/
Revenue/income from 2017-2018, all figures USD.

(Rank) Team $Value (Change)

(2) Toronto $1.45B (+4%) / $232M revenue / $94M operating income
(3) Montreal $1.3B (+4%) / $239M revenue / $102M operating income
(9) Vancouver $735M (+1%) / $168M revenue / $37M operating income
(13) Edmonton $540M (+4%) / $145M revenue /$21M operating income
(20) Calgary $450M (+5%) / $132M revenue / $11M operating income
(23) Ottawa $435M (+4%) / $124M revenue / $1.6M operating income
(27) Winnipeg $415M (+11%) / $135M revenue / $11M operating income

EpicPonyTime Dec 6, 2018 1:44 AM

So what was the argument behind the Flames needing a new arena, again? They weren't making money? They're doing as well as half the teams in the league.


Also, Panthers lost $21 million last year. Ooph.

JHikka Dec 9, 2018 8:24 PM

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/12/ufc-23...ate-in-toronto

Saturday’s UFC 230 event drew an announced attendance of 19,039 for a live gate of $2,481,552 [at Scotiabank Arena in Toronto].

Average entry of $130, for those curious.

TSN also extended their broadcast agreement with the UFC prior to the event.

JHikka Dec 12, 2018 3:56 PM

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/bursting...gues-1.4213030

'Bursting point': Booming Halifax courted by multiple sports leagues

It's a heady time for sports fans hankering for more athletic entertainment in Atlantic Canada's biggest city -- a place awash with cranes with a thriving construction sector, healthy employment gains, strong population growth and a booming housing market.

But the sports buzz is dampened by doubts about whether a city of 400,000 people -- even one that functions as a regional capital -- can sustain so many teams.

"There's only so much disposable income to go around," says Concordia University sports economist Moshe Lander.

"The more teams that you have with overlapping seasons, the more likely they will start cannibalizing each other."

It's a concern shared by even the most enthusiastic of sport boosters.

"As a sports fan, I hope it all works," says Bruce Rainnie, president and CEO of the Nova Scotia Sport Hall of Fame.

"But with all the options available for your sport-entertainment dollar, you just have to wonder if there's a bursting point."

The teams won't just be competing for fans and their wallets, but for corporate sponsorship as well.

...

The city's sports roster already includes the Mooseheads and the Halifax Hurricanes basketball team, and will soon add professional soccer, lacrosse and potentially CFL football -- not to mention several prominent university teams.

The HFX Wanderers Football Club is expected to compete in the Canadian Premier League in its inaugural 2019 season, and a new National Lacrosse League franchise -- a relocation of New York State's Rochester Knighthawks -- will play at the Scotiabank Centre under a new team name, potentially the Halifax Privateers, starting next December.

Maritime Football -- the group behind the newly named Atlantic Schooners -- is trying to land a Canadian Football League franchise for Halifax, a proposal that hinges on the construction of a new 24,000-seat stadium.

...

"You kind of scratch your head and wonder if there will be room for all of them," says Mark Raymond, associate academic dean at the Sobey School of Business at Saint Mary's University in Halifax.

"When we think of the Maritimes in general or Nova Scotia, there's only really a few major corporations."

He says companies will be interested in reaching new markets through sports sponsorships, as well as "staying top of mind" among existing customers.

"There's also a sense of corporate responsibility, of giving back to the community," Raymond says.

Still, the finite number of companies -- from telecoms and banks to car dealerships and grocery chains -- willing to sponsor sports in the city means teams could face a battle for sponsors.

"The big concern is on the corporate side," says Don Mills, chairman and CEO of Corporate Research Associates and a key player behind efforts to bring a new National Basketball League of Canada team -- the Halifax Hurricanes -- to the city after the Halifax Rainmen folded in 2015.

"There are only so many dollars to go around."

Unlike some teams, however, he says a CFL team would attract a larger pool of corporate sponsors.

"I'm anticipating there will be large national advertisers that will want to be part of a CFL team that would not be part of the Hurricanes, for example," he says.

...

While the Mooseheads hockey team has never had "anything but a honeymoon period," the Hurricanes are struggling to get more than 2,000 fans to attend games, says Rainnie.

"So far the only thing that has ever really worked here -- off the charts worked -- is the Halifax Mooseheads."

But Rainnie says a soccer team will likely thrive in Halifax -- a city with a growing immigrant population that tends to rally behind soccer -- and that lacrosse is quickly gaining in popularity among youth.

"I have tremendous optimism about soccer working," Rainnie says, adding that "lacrosse is a deep-rooted Canadian sport that has a physicality and a watchability to it."

He adds that a team's success is increasingly dependent on community engagement, and the willingness of players to "contribute to kids at the grassroots level of sports."

Football, on the other hand, is "truly a time-will-tell sort of thing," Rainnie says.

"At its best the CFL is a very exciting product," he says. "But I don't think the league right now is at its best."

Rainnie says in order to survive, the football team will have to attract fans from across the region -- Moncton, Charlottetown, Truro and beyond -- who are willing to drive to Halifax to watch the games."

someone123 Dec 12, 2018 7:38 PM

I don't know how the sports teams will work out but Halifax is in an interesting transition state right now. In some ways it is like a small city and in some ways it's like a medium-sized city in a Canadian context.

This might be one of those cases where there is a "tipping point". The city might become more of a household name in Canada in 10 or 20 years, a place lots of people think about moving to or visiting. That would be a good thing for the country as a whole because there aren't a lot of options like that to choose from.

The risk to all this is that the city is not very large and the character that makes it interesting could easily be swamped by new development. A lot of decision makers in the city traditionally had a very laissez-faire attitude about all this stuff because they felt like nothing would change very quickly and there would be lots of advance notice as any problems cropped up. Most of Canada suffers from this complacency to some degree, in my experience.

le calmar Dec 12, 2018 8:29 PM

I could be wrong, but I am not sure about a Lacrosse team in Halifax. Attendance is only solid for a few teams while the rest is not doing so well. I suspect teams like Buffalo are doing well now because the other local pro teams suck and have been doing so for a long time.

EpicPonyTime Dec 12, 2018 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 8406494)
I could be wrong, but I am not sure about a Lacrosse team in Halifax. Attendance is only solid for a few teams while the rest is not doing so well. I suspect teams like Buffalo are doing well now because the other local pro teams suck and have been doing so for a long time.

Buffalo has had good support for the Bandits for quite some time, actually. Same can be said about the Mammoth. I think in both cases lacrosse fills the "affordable pro sports" niche which obviously the major leagues do not.

One thing that bodes well for Halifax is that they will be inheriting a good team from Rochester. I don't know if a brand new team would have success drawing fans, but a solid team from the start will help them build buzz right out of the gate. Moreso than anything, I feel that was the biggest factor in the Rush's success. I don't know anyone who was interested in lacrosse before they moved to Saskatoon and I know plenty of people thought it would fail. The success of the team brought in fans that loved the atmosphere and it helped to build buzz. Now we have arguably the best supported team in the league.

It's almost cliche to look at Halifax pro sports and say "they'll be the Saskatchewan of the Maritimes" but in this case it could be true.

Acajack Dec 12, 2018 9:54 PM

I think CFL (if it happens) would do fine in Halifax. Yes, they need bigger crowds than the other sports to make money but there are only 9 home games a year. Plus it's the one sport that has a shot at becoming a regional team for Nova Scotia and even the Maritimes, and also the opportunity to make each game an event - making it more likely for some out-of-towners to make a mini-trip out of it.

Also, the CFL's marketing, media presence and visibility is definitely sub-par but it's still quite a bit better than any of the other leagues that are, will be or might be in Halifax.

As such, it will likely be the most "prestige" sports product in town. (Unless some people get a hard-on because the NLL has a few U.S. teams, and think it's the big time as a result. Now that I think of it... that's a definite possibility...)

JHikka Dec 12, 2018 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8406595)
As such, it will likely be the most "prestige" sports product in town. (Unless some people get a hard-on because the NLL has a few U.S. teams, and think it's the big time as a result. Now that I think of it... that's a definite possibility...)

Oh, please. The NLL because they play against US teams?

The current prestige team in Halifax is the Mooseheads, full stop. They're consistently competitive and consistently churn out top NHL talent. They're the direct local competition for a potential CFL team in terms of eyeballs and corporate support.

Both the NBL and NLL play relatively short seasons that don't overlap with the CFL schedule. A good portion of the CHL schedule overlaps (August-November) and Mooseheads play two-three times/week in that span. The CPL will run against the CFL all summer but remains to be seen how competitive they are in the markets they'll be entering (the Wanderers seem to be doing well in ticket confirmations and premium seat sales, IIRC).

Acajack Dec 12, 2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8406601)
Oh, please. The NLL because they play against US teams?

.

I've been there a few times. Trust me. It exists.

Acajack Dec 12, 2018 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8406601)
Oh, please. The NLL because they play against US teams?

The current prestige team in Halifax is the Mooseheads, full stop. They're consistently competitive and consistently churn out top NHL talent. They're the direct local competition for a potential CFL team in terms of eyeballs and corporate support.

Both the NBL and NLL play relatively short seasons that don't overlap with the CFL schedule. A good portion of the CHL schedule overlaps (August-November) and Mooseheads play two-three times/week in that span. The CPL will run against the CFL all summer but remains to be seen how competitive they are in the markets they'll be entering (the Wanderers seem to be doing well in ticket confirmations and premium seat sales, IIRC).

Seriously though, I agree with you that the Mooseheads are the top dog in the market and will be the main competition for the Schooners when it comes to the sports entertainment dollar and media attention. For all the reasons you cited - plus the Mooseheads play a sport that's more popular overall.

The CPL is a bit of an unknown, but though I wish them well, this is National Canadian Pro Soccer League 4.0 or 5.0 I think, so...

SaskScraper Dec 13, 2018 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime (Post 8406587)
Buffalo has had good support for the Bandits for quite some time, actually. Same can be said about the Mammoth. I think in both cases lacrosse fills the "affordable pro sports" niche which obviously the major leagues do not.

One thing that bodes well for Halifax is that they will be inheriting a good team from Rochester. I don't know if a brand new team would have success drawing fans, but a solid team from the start will help them build buzz right out of the gate. Moreso than anything, I feel that was the biggest factor in the Rush's success. I don't know anyone who was interested in lacrosse before they moved to Saskatoon and I know plenty of people thought it would fail. The success of the team brought in fans that loved the atmosphere and it helped to build buzz. Now we have arguably the best supported team in the league.

It's almost cliche to look at Halifax pro sports and say "they'll be the Saskatchewan of the Maritimes" but in this case it could be true.

Totally agree, The NLL entertainment value & fast moving action coupled with an experienced winning team in The Rush in a new city & province that has generations of rich sporting history guaranteed the NLL a successful franchise in Saskatchewan. It appears the cookie cutter formula of the Rush's triumph in relocating to Saskatoon is being used to see if Halifax can sustain same success with a tried & true relocated American team.

That Halifax Arena will basically have to sell out all their games to even be an average attendance success for the NLL. Colorado's NLL team goes up against hockey & basketball, & for brief period the NFL & MLB, during Mammoth's season but still gets the same attendance as the Avalanche. I have faith Halifax NLL team can be a success but not sure if it can be done, considering Halifax Hurricances can't even get more than couple thousand spectators and Mooseheads average little more than 6 to 7 thousand... similar to a hockey team like the Regina Pats.

As far as CFL goes, Halifax doesn't really get more than a couple thousand for it's university football team's games as compared to University of Saskatchewan's 6,500+ spectators, so hard to say if Saskatchewan example is an obtainable goal for success for a CFL team in Atlantic Canada. Not as much corporate sponsorship & less disposable income in that part of the country would only reinforce limited chance for long term success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka
Oh, please. The NLL because they play against US teams?
Hard to say, right now novelty of having USA teams for Halifax NLL team to play with may be an added spectator draw.

The WHL in Western Canada has American teams but I doubt anyone would say The Rush have an advantage over Saskatoon Blades since there had been just as many American hockey teams that come to Saskatoon as do NLL teams.

The Rush games against Vancouver & Calgary have just as many if not more spectators as when playing the American teams. The CFL is an all-Canadian league & even when there were American teams years ago, The Riders attendance over the last decade has been the highest than any other decade.

I think it's just novel for Canadians 'outside' of Saskatchewan to know American lacrosse & hockey teams play all over Saskatchewan.

Acajack Dec 13, 2018 3:57 PM

I don't have the answer but I think it's an interesting question whether the Saskatchewan Rush would still get 15,000 people a game if they played in a lacrosse league with only Canadian teams.

EpicPonyTime Dec 13, 2018 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8407377)
I don't have the answer but I think it's an interesting question whether the Saskatchewan Rush would still get 15,000 people a game if they played in a lacrosse league with only Canadian teams.

While I don't think it is a major factor, I do think fans get a kick out of knowing Saskatoon is in a league where there are teams from cities like Philadelphia or San Diego where they likely don't even know where Saskatoon is. New York will be getting a team in 2020; it'll be cool to play them.

esquire Dec 13, 2018 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8407377)
I don't have the answer but I think it's an interesting question whether the Saskatchewan Rush would still get 15,000 people a game if they played in a lacrosse league with only Canadian teams.

I can't speak for Sask, but back in Winnipeg's days without the NHL, I don't think the opponent's home country really mattered all that much to Moose fans. It's not like people got more jacked up for a game against the Chicago Wolves or Houston Aeros than they did for games against the Saint John's Maple Leafs or Hamilton Bulldogs.

As for the lacrosse situation, it's not like people in NYC are going to be watching lacrosse games on TVs in living rooms and sports bars all over town. Are NLL games even televised?

That said, I suppose there is still something to the idea that Canadians tend to get tickled when we think Americans are paying attention. The local media made quite a fuss when NBC Sports Network came to Winnipeg to televise a midweek game between the Jets and Caps earlier this season. Numerous breathless, almost delusional references to people watching the game from coast to coast in the US, etc. But what I don't think the local hacks fully realized is that NBC Sports Network is the old Outdoor Life Network... a niche cable channel that hardly anyone watches. This wasn't Bob Costas and NBC Sports. They average maybe a hair over 400,000 US viewers for regular season NHL games... which is in the same ballpark as what one of the less interesting CFL matchups pulls in in a country with 10% of the population. So really next to no one in the US saw the game. But the mere mention of NBC had the fairy dust floating in the air...

JHikka Dec 13, 2018 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8407517)
That said, I suppose there is still something to the idea that Canadians tend to get tickled when we think Americans are paying attention. The local media made quite a fuss when NBC Sports Network came to Winnipeg to televise a midweek game between the Jets and Caps earlier this season. Numerous breathless, almost delusional references to people watching the game from coast to coast in the US, etc. But what I don't think the local hacks fully realized is that NBC Sports Network is the old Outdoor Life Network... a niche cable channel that hardly anyone watches. This wasn't Bob Costas and NBC Sports. They average maybe a hair over 400,000 US viewers for regular season NHL games... which is in the same ballpark as what one of the less interesting CFL matchups pulls in in a country with 10% of the population. So really next to no one in the US saw the game. But the mere mention of NBC had the fairy dust floating in the air...

This thread isn't about American ratings so I really won't get into it, but...I can't seem to find any Winnipeg/Washington game from early in the season on NBCSN. There was a Winnipeg/Toronto game which garnered 167K viewers (the lowest exclusive NBCSN game of the season, which makes sense given the lack of American teams). The NBCSN average for this season is 279K (as of last week).

NBCSN ratings have declined from where they were five years ago but SCF ratings are up for NBC and have been since the lockouts, which is where the main money is anyway.

I also recall some Winnipeg folks giving the SN people a hard time on social media for only going to Winnipeg when Toronto were there. :haha:

Acajack Dec 13, 2018 5:49 PM

I guess I am still haunted by the (exaggerated) buzz over the Montreal Machine and the Ottawa Bootleggers...


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