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-   -   [St. John's] Retail Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198935)

Marty_Mcfly Nov 14, 2018 2:00 PM

Stavanger Drive isn't going anywhere. What's the alternative in the area?

Smaller stores that close like Bombay and Bowring, those buildings will be snapped up in no time, much like when Golf Town closed. The larger buildings will be trouble since there aren't really any other large chains that are going to move in. Home Depot could possibly open another location in say the Rona building, but that would pretty much be it; everything else is covered.

Larla77 Nov 14, 2018 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 8378864)
Stavanger Drive isn't going anywhere. What's the alternative in the area?

Smaller stores that close like Bombay and Bowring, those buildings will be snapped up in no time, much like when Golf Town closed. The larger buildings will be trouble since there aren't really any other large chains that are going to move in. Home Depot could possibly open another location in say the Rona building, but that would pretty much be it; everything else is covered.

Agreed. Hickeys could move down there I guess (they took Rona;s space further down Torbay Rd after they moved). The old Zellers/Target is still mostly empty even after they started to subdivide the space.

statbass Nov 14, 2018 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodgrowth (Post 8378831)
My technical market analysis:

!!!STAVANGER WILL BECOME THE VILLAGE MALL OF BOX CENTRE'S!!!

There's way too many rich east-enders around to prevent that from happening.

613_YYT Nov 16, 2018 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 8378864)
Stavanger Drive isn't going anywhere. What's the alternative in the area?

Smaller stores that close like Bombay and Bowring, those buildings will be snapped up in no time, much like when Golf Town closed. The larger buildings will be trouble since there aren't really any other large chains that are going to move in. Home Depot could possibly open another location in say the Rona building, but that would pretty much be it; everything else is covered.

The death of big box stores and malls is not a new thing or unique to St. John's. There has been a bigger push by cities and developers to repurpose these sites especially since the 2008 housing crash and the growing desire to live in a mixed use neighbourhood. Here is a great TED talk from 2010 about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_uTsrxfYWQ

With sprawl, commercial areas leap frog past each other leaving the old and huge buildings in the older and usually more expensive areas. Add in the changing tastes of consumers and it is easy to image that more big box stores will be left vacant.

Luckily, these areas don't need to be filled with another store. There are examples of how some were turned into housing complexes, libraries, community centers and churches. The oversized and underused parking lots can even be built up with mixed use buildings and local streets. Other infrastructure like main roads and transit and grocery stores are already there. Next thing you know you have an actual neighbourhood with local people that are looking for a place to hang out and spend money. Belmar in Lakewood CO is a great example of this:
https://www.denverpost.com/2014/05/0...owth-identity/
Photos: https://urbanexus.smugmug.com/Commun...d-Denver-area/

There is hope if we use our heads and take a chance doing something different.

And more sources that you won't read but I include to back up my opinion and maybe change yours:)
https://www.popsci.com/repurposing-big-box-stores
https://99percentinvisible.org/artic...cross-america/
http://time.com/72281/american-housing/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cal...ment-1.4480936

Marty_Mcfly Nov 17, 2018 2:05 PM

^ Listen, you're not wrong, and I don't disagree with what you're saying. However we have to realize there's a disconnect between our expectations and reality. St. John's is still stuck in the urban planning faux-pas of yesteryear. I don't expect city council, developers, and residents to all suddenly time-warp into 2018 and realize that we could be doing better. What I would like to see happen in the area versus what will likely happen are two very different things.

613_YYT Nov 19, 2018 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 8382524)
^ Listen, you're not wrong, and I don't disagree with what you're saying. However we have to realize there's a disconnect between our expectations and reality. St. John's is still stuck in the urban planning faux-pas of yesteryear. I don't expect city council, developers, and residents to all suddenly time-warp into 2018 and realize that we could be doing better. What I would like to see happen in the area versus what will likely happen are two very different things.


It would be naive to think that a post a forum would instantly change a city. However, if you can't post ideas and examples on SkyscrapperPage, why even bother having a St. John's section?

I suspect there may be a lot more people lurking around here than you'd expect. I have followed the cities I've lived in for years without commenting. So you never know who will be reading, maybe even a councilor or developer. An idea might pique their interest or show there are different ways or there is a desire for change.

If you don't put your expectations out there you can't expect change.

statbass Nov 19, 2018 4:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 613_YYT (Post 8383820)
It would be naive to think that a post a forum would instantly change a city. However, if you can't post ideas and examples on SkyscrapperPage, why even bother having a St. John's section?

I suspect there may be a lot more people lurking around here than you'd expect. I have followed the cities I've lived in for years without commenting. So you never know who will be reading, maybe even a councilor or developer. An idea might pique their interest or show there are different ways or there is a desire for change.

If you don't put your expectations out there you can't expect change.

Absolutely! Please continue to post. All ideas: big, small, pragmatic, pie in the sky... what have you. I may not always agree but I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone's ideas and comments. Some great ideas have been discussed in these threads over the years, and I would venture to say we have (indirectly, at least) helped create change and reshape our city positively. :cheers:

Marty_Mcfly Nov 19, 2018 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 613_YYT (Post 8383820)
It would be naive to think that a post a forum would instantly change a city. However, if you can't post ideas and examples on SkyscrapperPage, why even bother having a St. John's section?

I suspect there may be a lot more people lurking around here than you'd expect. I have followed the cities I've lived in for years without commenting. So you never know who will be reading, maybe even a councilor or developer. An idea might pique their interest or show there are different ways or there is a desire for change.

If you don't put your expectations out there you can't expect change.

It must be a common trait among all SSP posters to have insane knee-jerk reactions. Calm down, I'm not telling you to not post your ideas. In your post you say you hope to change my opinion. You don't need to change my mind; I agree with the content you posted, reclaiming abandoned big box stores for mixed-development is smart. That being said, I was addressing whether or not Stavanger Drive is about to die. It won't die, it'll continue being an absolute traffic nightmare for many more years to come.

Despite what a lot of people think, Costco isn't the life support of the area, it's the large abundance of middle class/upper class professionals who live in the area. National chains like Bombay going belly up is out of the hands of St. John's shoppers.

613_YYT Nov 20, 2018 1:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 8384213)
It must be a common trait among all SSP posters to have insane knee-jerk reactions. Calm down, I'm not telling you to not post your ideas. In your post you say you hope to change my opinion. You don't need to change my mind; I agree with the content you posted, reclaiming abandoned big box stores for mixed-development is smart. That being said, I was addressing whether or not Stavanger Drive is about to die. It won't die, it'll continue being an absolute traffic nightmare for many more years to come.

Despite what a lot of people think, Costco isn't the life support of the area, it's the large abundance of middle class/upper class professionals who live in the area. National chains like Bombay going belly up is out of the hands of St. John's shoppers.

Wait, isn't dramatic reactions the NL way? :D

I'm sorry that came across as knee jerk. I guess it's like when you start a reply with "Listen," and it comes across as aggressive and dismissive. The nuisances of speech don't translate well to typing.

Anyway, I hope no hard feeling and I'm cool with dropping it.

jjavman Nov 20, 2018 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 613_YYT (Post 8384941)
Wait, isn't dramatic reactions the NL way? :D

I'm sorry that came across as knee jerk. I guess it's like when you start a reply with "Listen," and it comes across as aggressive and dismissive. The nuisances of speech don't translate well to typing.

Anyway, I hope no hard feeling and I'm cool with dropping it.

It shows that we are all passionate. If everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a forum.

Can't tell you the number of times I've re-edited posts to try and appear less inflammatory!

I also know of a couple of "well placed" folks who browse these threads from time to time, so constructive posts may help influence administrative thinking.

:cheers:

goodgrowth Nov 20, 2018 9:56 PM

I see a bright future for Stavanger:

http://vocm.com/news/crews-battling-...rive-best-buy/

Arrakis Nov 22, 2018 10:30 PM

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d3&oe=5C67A212
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cc&oe=5C7704C1
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...df&oe=5C7A00C8

Stumbled across an interesting document from Olympic Constructions website on the tender for the Avalon Mall renos and expansion.
They have construction tender document posted on their website. They are quite extensive. The second document shows all of the technical drawings of the proposed repurposing of Sears space and the expansion onto the front parking lot (Eventually). Some drawings show Winners/Homesense moving into the Sears former space facing Columbus Drive/Parkway. Everything is there. Worth checking out.
Here is the link:

http://www.olympic-construction.nf.c...er/avalonmall/

Marty_Mcfly Nov 23, 2018 1:59 AM

That's certainly a substantial increase in square footage. Can't help but notice that they seem to be designing a lot of the new space as larger stores. That's fine, though I wonder who they're targeting as new tenants? Could the now almost 15 year rumor of H&M coming to town finally be coming to fruition?

KDMusic Nov 23, 2018 2:28 AM

Some interesting things I found from those links:

- The new Winners currently has an opening date of August 1st 2019
- The construction is being divided into three zones/phases
ZONE 1: New Winners + a few other new retail spaces leading to the new Winners
ZONE 2: Expansion of mall in front of Old Sears (Starting construction Winter/Spring 2019)
ZONE 3: Expansion of mall in front of current CIBC/Starbucks/Winners entrances
- The mall will gain 31,200 square feet of space when all is done (+ Sears space + Winners old space)
- And, one image seemed to show a set of stairs or escalators in the new expansion...? (https://imgur.com/a/OHD8TmL)

jjavman Nov 23, 2018 3:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 8387848)

Good find!

Arrakis Nov 23, 2018 5:17 AM

Aside from the Wiiners space, I guess the other spaces can be chopped up based on tenant’s needs. Some time ago a Rep from mall said there will be space for about 40 new retail stores. So I assume some of those other large spaces might be eventually subdivided at some point to accommodate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 8388004)
That's certainly a substantial increase in square footage. Can't help but notice that they seem to be designing a lot of the new space as larger stores. That's fine, though I wonder who they're targeting as new tenants? Could the now almost 15 year rumor of H&M coming to town finally be coming to fruition?


Arrakis Nov 23, 2018 5:21 AM

Gawd, if they don’t entice H&M and Forever 21 after they get all this new space, there’s no hope left in the world. Lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly (Post 8388004)
That's certainly a substantial increase in square footage. Can't help but notice that they seem to be designing a lot of the new space as larger stores. That's fine, though I wonder who they're targeting as new tenants? Could the now almost 15 year rumor of H&M coming to town finally be coming to fruition?


Arrakis Nov 23, 2018 5:22 AM

Thanks.

I just googled Avalon Mall expansion and that site came up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjavman (Post 8388040)
Good find!


statbass Nov 23, 2018 1:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 8387848)
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d3&oe=5C67A212
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cc&oe=5C7704C1
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...df&oe=5C7A00C8

Stumbled across an interesting document from Olympic Constructions website on the tender for the Avalon Mall renos and expansion.
They have construction tender document posted on their website. They are quite extensive. The second document shows all of the technical drawings of the proposed repurposing of Sears space and the expansion onto the front parking lot (Eventually). Some drawings show Winners/Homesense moving into the Sears former space facing Columbus Drive/Parkway. Everything is there. Worth checking out.
Here is the link:

http://www.olympic-construction.nf.c...er/avalonmall/

That is a really great find! Thanks for sharing! It's funny how many times the simplest search turns up the best results... Occam's Razor at work! :cheers:

NewfBC Nov 23, 2018 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrakis (Post 8388091)
Gawd, if they don’t entice H&M and Forever 21 after they get all this new space, there’s no hope left in the world. Lol.

Those stores are garbage! :)

Wish for a Uniqlo!

Ron.


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