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-   -   [St. John's] Retail Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198935)

goodgrowth Nov 5, 2018 8:03 PM

A single large Lowe's similar to Home Depot and Kent would likely be much more feasible than the existing Rona buildings. Aside from prices the problem was the very old and outdated setup of the old Chester Dawe buildings which could not really compare to Home Depot or Kent.

Larla77 Nov 5, 2018 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodgrowth (Post 8369200)
A single large Lowe's similar to Home Depot and Kent would likely be much more feasible than the existing Rona buildings. Aside from prices the problem was the very old and outdated setup of the old Chester Dawe buildings which could not really compare to Home Depot or Kent.

I think they tried to compete with Kents in the east end with the new store which is a lovely looking store. But the prices were higher than Canadian Tire and Kent (and Wal Mart) which was also right there. I saw some people mention customer service but I had some bad service experiences there.

IronMan Nov 6, 2018 3:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larla77 (Post 8369213)
I think they tried to compete with Kents in the east end with the new store which is a lovely looking store. But the prices were higher than Canadian Tire and Kent (and Wal Mart) which was also right there. I saw some people mention customer service but I had some bad service experiences there.


Kent, not Kents. Many people call it Kents but this is incorrect. Just saying! :)

wmemeadusjr Nov 6, 2018 11:37 AM

With Bowring and Bombay on Stavanger Drive both closing up as well, Stavanger is starting to resemble a graveyard more than a shopping centre. Hopefully the rest will hang on. There are still thousands of people on the doorstep of Stavanger Drive, and the need for a local shopping area certainly exists. The area was always super busy when Costco was open but pretty quiet otherwise. A Walmart employee told me that the Stavanger location is the least busiest of the four in metro. A Sport Chek employee also told me that the Village location has over double the sales of the Stavanger location.

statbass Nov 6, 2018 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmemeadusjr (Post 8370056)
With Bowring and Bombay on Stavanger Drive both closing up as well, Stavanger is starting to resemble a graveyard more than a shopping centre. Hopefully the rest will hang on. There are still thousands of people on the doorstep of Stavanger Drive, and the need for a local shopping area certainly exists. The area was always super busy when Costco was open but pretty quiet otherwise. A Walmart employee told me that the Stavanger location is the least busiest of the four in metro. A Sport Chek employee also told me that the Village location has over double the sales of the Stavanger location.

My beef with Stavanger was that the infrastructure never supported the amount of traffic it drew to the area. The roads were always congested and nothing was really done as more and more stores set up in the district. It got to the point, at least for me, that going to Stavanger meant going to Costco and leaving directly afterwards, with a quick stop to Walmart every once and a while. Having Costco move to Galway could (in the long run) be a blessing in disguise for Stavanger area. There'll be some adjustment period for sure. It won't draw the crowds like it used to but there's definitely enough population living in the area to support the remaining businesses. Plus, the ability to get around without having blood pressure readings of 200/150 will be a good thing. :)

I think another big hit for the area was Cineplex's buy out of Empire and shutting down the theatre expansion for Hebron. There were quite a few businesses setting up there with the intentions of Empire theatres anchoring the area. Businesses such as Verifin moving into the area sure helps out. But evenings and weekends there seem pretty dead.

Stavanger power centre has been around for 25 plus years now. I think this is a part of the evolutionary change of the retail market. I don't think you'll see Stavanger completely die, just going through a re-adjustment phase.

goodgrowth Nov 6, 2018 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statbass (Post 8370073)
My beef with Stavanger was that the infrastructure never supported the amount of traffic it drew to the area. The roads were always congested and nothing was really done as more and more stores set up in the district. It got to the point, at least for me, that going to Stavanger meant going to Costco and leaving directly afterwards, with a quick stop to Walmart every once and a while. Having Costco move to Galway could (in the long run) be a blessing in disguise for Stavanger area. There'll be some adjustment period for sure. It won't draw the crowds like it used to but there's definitely enough population living in the area to support the remaining businesses. Plus, the ability to get around without having blood pressure readings of 200/150 will be a good thing. :)

I think another big hit for the area was Cineplex's buy out of Empire and shutting down the theatre expansion for Hebron. There were quite a few businesses setting up there with the intentions of Empire theatres anchoring the area. Businesses such as Verifin moving into the area sure helps out. But evenings and weekends there seem pretty dead.

Stavanger power centre has been around for 25 plus years now. I think this is a part of the evolutionary change of the retail market. I don't think you'll see Stavanger completely die, just going through a re-adjustment phase.

And to think one time there was Target and a Future Shop on top of everything else that's there now....

Biggest problem with Stavanger is Stavanger Drive itself in my opinion. Why it isn't 4 lanes I just don't understand.

I think Stavanger is going to be going through a change. Costco going, Rona going(although probably wasn't much of an impact on the area) the old Target/Zellers building doesn't have a large tenant. I don't see Walmart or Dominion leaving. Best Buy is the only real major exclusive there now. If that moves it certainly won't ever be the same imo.

Larla77 Nov 6, 2018 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodgrowth (Post 8370084)
And to think one time there was Target and a Future Shop on top of everything else that's there now....

Biggest problem with Stavanger is Stavanger Drive itself in my opinion. Why it isn't 4 lanes I just don't understand.

I think Stavanger is going to be going through a change. Costco going, Rona going(although probably wasn't much of an impact on the area) the old Target/Zellers building doesn't have a large tenant. I don't see Walmart or Dominion leaving. Best Buy is the only real major exclusive there now. If that moves it certainly won't ever be the same imo.

I'd argue Michaels as well as a major exclusive right now as well. They are almost always busy and one of many people's gotos for craft supplies. I rarely go to Best Buy but go to Michaels like once a week lol.

Yes I think Stavanger will readjust without Costco. Most of the traffic has always been Costco with people getting in and out as quick as they can. I doubt most of the other businesses saw much in the way of Costco spin-off. I would imagine Dominion, WalMart (which seems always busy to me), Marks, Princess Auto, Staples will be fine. The biggest thing with RONA was contractors so I wouldn't imagine that'll have an impact. The lunch trade over by Canadian Tire is busy with the offices in the area - Milestones definitely felt the most impact from the cancelled theatre.

Of possible note (or not) I was at the Stavanger Dominion to get a flu shot yesterday and there were people from head office there on a surprise visit. Maybe some changes to compete with the WalMart SuperCentre?

statbass Nov 6, 2018 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larla77 (Post 8370107)
I'd argue Michaels as well as a major exclusive right now as well. They are almost always busy and one of many people's gotos for craft supplies. I rarely go to Best Buy but go to Michaels like once a week lol.

Yes I think Stavanger will readjust without Costco. Most of the traffic has always been Costco with people getting in and out as quick as they can. I doubt most of the other businesses saw much in the way of Costco spin-off. I would imagine Dominion, WalMart (which seems always busy to me), Marks, Princess Auto, Staples will be fine. The biggest thing with RONA was contractors so I wouldn't imagine that'll have an impact. The lunch trade over by Canadian Tire is busy with the offices in the area - Milestones definitely felt the most impact from the cancelled theatre.

Of possible note (or not) I was at the Stavanger Dominion to get a flu shot yesterday and there were people from head office there on a surprise visit. Maybe some changes to compete with the WalMart SuperCentre?

Yes, Stavanger will survive without the aforementioned businesses - and will continue to grow, albeit at a slower rate I figure. The hardest part of all this is the loss of jobs. Over 300 people will be out of work come February. I'm sure a percentage will find jobs elsewhere and another percentage were close to retirement and hopefully will get a retirement package (many were unionized workers). But there'll still be a number of those without jobs in the New Year. Hardly seems fair, especially when you dedicate a large part of your life working for an organization only for the suits to fly in, tell you that you're loosing your job and then fly out. Very callous IMO.

rthomasd Nov 9, 2018 12:07 AM

The Avalon Mall Parking Garage is supposed to open morning of Nov 9th, just in time for their midnight madness.

The walkway doesn't look finished, parts of the facade are still not installed and they were pouring concrete this morning.

statbass Nov 9, 2018 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rthomasd (Post 8373556)
The Avalon Mall Parking Garage is supposed to open morning of Nov 9th, just in time for their midnight madness.

The walkway doesn't look finished, parts of the facade are still not installed and they were pouring concrete this morning.

Given this is the Avalon Mall's 20% off night, I would imagine this was a hard deadline to have the parking garage (if not completed) operational.

ec1983 Nov 9, 2018 4:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rthomasd (Post 8373556)
The Avalon Mall Parking Garage is supposed to open morning of Nov 9th, just in time for their midnight madness.

The walkway doesn't look finished, parts of the facade are still not installed and they were pouring concrete this morning.


The garage is open. All of the escalators haven't been certified for operation as of yet but the stairs and elevators are ready to go.

goodgrowth Nov 9, 2018 11:48 PM

Was in there today. It's pretty large and was quite full already even though it's only the first day it's been open. Escalators are not operational yet.

Though I will say the design of the garage is not perfect and I really wouldn't be surprised if there were some fender benders in there. One particular corner of the garage has a very awkward turn...especially considering it's supposed to be for 2-way traffic.

Kessel Run Nov 11, 2018 5:37 AM

Re: Avalon Mall parking garage, cramped, tight turns, curbs, dead ends, signage lacking. Seems dysfunctional so far.

IronMan Nov 12, 2018 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kessel Run (Post 8375563)
Re: Avalon Mall parking garage, cramped, tight turns, curbs, dead ends, signage lacking. Seems dysfunctional so far.

Is there anything positive about this multi-million dollar piece of substantial infrastructure?

KDMusic Nov 12, 2018 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronMan (Post 8376527)
Is there anything positive about this multi-million dollar piece of substantial infrastructure?

I thought the garage, the connection to the mall, and the new hallway you walk into when you get to the mall all looked very nice when I was there on Friday :shrug: A massive upgrade from the old link over to the mall.

hired_goons Nov 13, 2018 11:58 AM

The former Target store in the Stavanger area - did that used to be a Zellers?

J_Murphy Nov 13, 2018 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hired_goons (Post 8377320)
The former Target store in the Stavanger area (old Costco) - did that used to be a Zellers?

Yes it was.

statbass Nov 13, 2018 12:09 PM

Retail in flux: How the ride down Stavanger Drive is going to get bumpier
 
CBC NL
NOV 13, 2018
Author: Ariana Kelland

Here's a news story which talks about the changing retail landscape of Stavanger Dr.

Quote:


With the impending closure of Rona, Costco's big move to Galway and a few other smaller stores closing down, the Stavanger Drive area in St. John's is about to undergo a transformation.

The question is: how difficult will it be to fill those massive spaces left behind?

Next to Costco's massive space is another largely vacant building left over from Target's failed launch in Canada.

And Rona, off Torbay Road and White Rose Drive, is set to close on Jan. 27, leaving another large empty building behind, and employees in the lurch.

"When [the building is] so big, there is limited choices in terms of what you can fill unless you do what the Avalon Mall has done which is tear it down," said Tom Cooper, an associate professor at Memorial University's faculty of business.

...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...nges-1.4896857

Larla77 Nov 14, 2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statbass (Post 8377324)
CBC NL
NOV 13, 2018
Author: Ariana Kelland

Here's a news story which talks about the changing retail landscape of Stavanger Dr.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...nges-1.4896857

We were getting doom and gloom stories about Churchill Square not that long ago.

Stavanger will change and personally I think it'll be a good change at the end. A mix of offices and commercial, more of a local shopping area. Most of the recent closures weren't fleeing because Costco is moving but because many retail businesses are in trouble because of changing shopping patterns (ie online shopping).

goodgrowth Nov 14, 2018 1:20 PM

My technical market analysis:

!!!STAVANGER WILL BECOME THE VILLAGE MALL OF BOX CENTRE'S!!!


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