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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Derek Apr 1, 2008 5:22 AM

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ego_padres.gif

HurricaneHugo Apr 1, 2008 6:22 AM

word life

mongoXZ Apr 1, 2008 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bushman61988 (Post 3446280)
Biggest Hotel on Coast Planned



To Claudette Cooper, homeowners association president at ICON condominiums, the proposed hotel translates into an influx of new traffic in her neighborhood.

ICON, which opened early last year, is on J Street between 10th and 11th avenues. Cooper said that finding street parking on Padres game nights is like doing battle. She dreads how it will be with thousands of additional visitors in the mix.

Blocking ICON's views of the bay is another concern.

“We need to be careful how it is designed so it doesn't decrease values by walling off views and increasing congestion,” Cooper said.

*yawn*
I never understand the logic of some of these people. They seem to not understand that they bought into an urban lifestyle. Crowded streets and sidewalks will be part of the package and nobody is entitled to views of the bay. Morons.

CoastersBolts Apr 1, 2008 7:45 PM

What does someone like the idiot who runs the HOA at Icon do on gamenight, like last night? The City closes streets around the ballpark to limit traffic congestion during games, as it has done since 2004 long before ground on Icon was even broken and there were far fewer people living in the East Village. So now this woman feels entitled to peace and quiet despite the fact that she lives in a CBD and that her building is visible from a Major League Baseball stadium? Go back to San Pasqual if you want views and peace and quiet.

ShekelPop Apr 1, 2008 9:40 PM

I was able to get some construction photos while I was at the Doubletree the other day:

Vantage Pointe:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2123/...c3005b.jpg?v=0

Sapphire:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2100/...4a06cd.jpg?v=0

Breeza:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2057/...497f24.jpg?v=0

sandiego_urban Apr 1, 2008 9:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoXZ (Post 3454618)
*yawn*
I never understand the logic of some of these people. They seem to not understand that they bought into an urban lifestyle. Crowded streets and sidewalks will be part of the package and nobody is entitled to views of the bay. Morons.

I totally agree. No one living in a downtown high-rise should expect their views to be protected. :yes:


Can someone confirm whether these renderings of the Ballpark Marriott are current? While the towers aren't fully visible, it does show it's base. Given it's location, I guess you can't expect too much as far as bases go.

http://www.johnsonfain.com/launch.html

Click enter, then our work, then projects, then look for Ballpark Marriott

teiwaz Apr 7, 2008 2:57 AM

Lets get the story straight for all the good people involved
 
in reference to the Simplon Ballpark situation:

stated in the letter above,

'The property was recently appraised at $26.5 million, according to the creditor, which has asked the bankruptcy court to allow it to proceed with foreclosure.'

The writer either did not have the info or chose not to add it but, two other appraisers have priced the development at 55 to 65 million. The 26.5 stated is only the land (appraised years ago!) and not the entitlements. This dark and nasty plan by Steven Black makes me wonder how he sleeps at night. The court date for this is April 16th and we will either see Black get bought out before that or fail in his 'darkside' attempt to rule the world.

IconRPCV Apr 7, 2008 8:21 PM

Hey check out my pics of Petco and enviorns from Opening Day. The thread is in the US Photos Section under Opening Day Downtown. Tell me what you think.

sandiegodweller Apr 8, 2008 3:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teiwaz (Post 3467410)
in reference to the Simplon Ballpark situation:

stated in the letter above,

'The property was recently appraised at $26.5 million, according to the creditor, which has asked the bankruptcy court to allow it to proceed with foreclosure.'

The writer either did not have the info or chose not to add it but, two other appraisers have priced the development at 55 to 65 million. The 26.5 stated is only the land (appraised years ago!) and not the entitlements. This dark and nasty plan by Steven Black makes me wonder how he sleeps at night. The court date for this is April 16th and we will either see Black get bought out before that or fail in his 'darkside' attempt to rule the world.

Entitlements in downtown San Diego have little intrinsic value. CCDC basically rubber stamps approval of your application as long as it meets their guidelines and there is little or no public opposition to almost every submittal.

Regarding the Simplon site, the current approvals decrease the value of the property. The requirement to relocate and build a new $5 million firestation make it less valuable. If Cisterra doesn't get refinanced out of the deal in BK court, they will go back to the drawing board and redesign a different project.

If the site was actually worth more than the $17 million +/- that Cisterra paid for the note, why didn't anyone else figure it out while the note was being marketed for 2+ months?

keg92101 Apr 8, 2008 3:31 PM

[QUOTE=sandiegodweller;3469442]Entitlements in downtown San Diego have little intrinsic value. QUOTE]

Are you kidding? I agree that CCDC lets way too much go through, and don't beat up architects enough to get them to design better projects, but if you are selling a fully entitled project, your design is done. Meaning the value of site engineering, architecture, etc have already been paid for.

Last I checked a fully entitled project anywhere is worth more than a piece of land without any design or approvals, but maybe I'm a bit naive.

teiwaz Apr 8, 2008 4:23 PM

I agree, to say that all approvals and a full one city block design with financing for construction ready to go isn't worth anything is a little naive. Any judge with a right mind would see the effort and money put into this project and not rule that the property is the same price as it was when it was just bought 4 years ago! I would love to believe that rubber stamping actually exists but from any of my own developments, I know it doesn't. The time and material you have to supply is amazing and you do have to pass major factors to get an approval. Especially downtown SD overlooking the ball park!

sandiegodweller Apr 8, 2008 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teiwaz (Post 3470339)
I agree, to say that all approvals and a full one city block design with financing for construction ready to go isn't worth anything is a little naive. Any judge with a right mind would see the effort and money put into this project and not rule that the property is the same price as it was when it was just bought 4 years ago! I would love to believe that rubber stamping actually exists but from any of my own developments, I know it doesn't. The time and material you have to supply is amazing and you do have to pass major factors to get an approval. Especially downtown SD overlooking the ball park!

Are you a creditor on this project?

The FREE MARKET is telling you that the approvals are worthless. The UNIMPROVED LAND with entitlements is trading for less than it did 2 years ago.

The land, based on it's location has value. The market forces said it is worth about $17 million.

Spending money, time and materials on plans and pretty artist's renderings doesn't necessarily equate to "added value" unless someone actually wants to build the approved project. At this point in time, a big "white elephant" project isn't very attractive and therefore doesn't have much value.

Where is the approved financing? I think that the FACT that the project went bankrupt before it got started indicates that it doesn't have any financing to build it.

FYI - there are about 10 other projects in downtown in the same position (PepBoys, Burger King, TC Holdings, the site behind Albertsons, the site in front of Albertsons, Triangle, etc). They all have approvals but really aren't worth any more than the dirt beneath them.

If the process wasn't relatively easy (rubber stamped by CCDC), why is downtown San Diego so popular with speculators and how did all of these projects get approved in the past 3 years? Speculators tend to follow the path of least resistance.

sandiegodweller Apr 8, 2008 7:30 PM

[QUOTE=keg92101;3470208]
Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3469442)
Entitlements in downtown San Diego have little intrinsic value. QUOTE]

Are you kidding? I agree that CCDC lets way too much go through, and don't beat up architects enough to get them to design better projects, but if you are selling a fully entitled project, your design is done. Meaning the value of site engineering, architecture, etc have already been paid for.

Last I checked a fully entitled project anywhere is worth more than a piece of land without any design or approvals, but maybe I'm a bit naive.

Fully entitled doesn't necessarily mean that the project is ready to build. It means that a Tentative Tract Map has been approved with conditions of approval. I don't know if Simplon spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to create the construction drawings, the foundation plan, the landscape plan, the utility plans, etc. I doubt that they paid the completion bonds, school fees, mitigation fees, traffic fees, park fees, etc.

For example, you are a big proponent of the Navy Broadway Complex, as am I. It is a Fully Entitled mixed-use development (3 million square feet of office, hotel, retail, parking and 1.9 acres of public open space), the Development Agreement was approved in 1992. It is nowhere near ready to construct.

SDCAL Apr 8, 2008 9:53 PM

Cosmo/Simplon
 
Regardless of the chances the project will proceed, Simplon and the CCDC have added more specifics on 4-April. Before the Cosmo Square update had blanks for the number of hotels vs condos, now they have the specific numbers:


Simplon Corporation plans to construct a mixed-use project with 211-room hotel, 113 Condominiums, 13,000 sf of retail block bounded by J Street, Seventh, Eighth and Island avenues.


I still think this would be a good spot to challenge the 500ft height limit, either by this project or anyone who buys it out. With this prime location, if a building could tout being the tallest in the city, that would provide millions in free publicity and prestige and set it apart from being "just another high-rise condo" -

OCtoSD Apr 8, 2008 11:19 PM

Affordable Housing High Rise
 
I was just looking around on the webcam, and South East of Smart Corner is going up a High Rise in the shape of an L. I was wondering if anyone know what project it is. Since it is back there next to the social services I'm guessing it is one of Father Joe's projects. Anyone know for sure?

OCtoSD Apr 8, 2008 11:26 PM

It is pretty much behind market street village, the Albertsons

keg92101 Apr 8, 2008 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCtoSD (Post 3471497)
It is pretty much behind market street village, the Albertsons

Yup, father joe's village...

keg92101 Apr 9, 2008 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 3470728)
Are you a creditor on this project?

The FREE MARKET is telling you that the approvals are worthless. The UNIMPROVED LAND with entitlements is trading for less than it did 2 years ago.

The land, based on it's location has value. The market forces said it is worth about $17 million.

Spending money, time and materials on plans and pretty artist's renderings doesn't necessarily equate to "added value" unless someone actually wants to build the approved project. At this point in time, a big "white elephant" project isn't very attractive and therefore doesn't have much value.

Where is the approved financing? I think that the FACT that the project went bankrupt before it got started indicates that it doesn't have any financing to build it.

FYI - there are about 10 other projects in downtown in the same position (PepBoys, Burger King, TC Holdings, the site behind Albertsons, the site in front of Albertsons, Triangle, etc). They all have approvals but really aren't worth any more than the dirt beneath them.

If the process wasn't relatively easy (rubber stamped by CCDC), why is downtown San Diego so popular with speculators and how did all of these projects get approved in the past 3 years? Speculators tend to follow the path of least resistance.


Hardly, I've always disclosed I work for a design-builder. The reason why the above mentioned projects aren't worth more than the dirt they sit on, is that their design isn't worth any more than the dirt they sit on. To me, fully entitled and permitted is ready to build. Simplon was at that stage. I know, cause my wife worked on the con-docs over 2 years ago. I'm not saying that fully entitled, permitted projects add double digit percentage, but it will add on any cost / carry for the design and the time to do it.

teiwaz Apr 9, 2008 12:59 AM

...and what about the latest appraisals? Are they worth nothing as well? Two separate companies have appraised the project and both have come in around 55-60 mil. It seems like 'sandiegodweller' is siding with the sharks who swim around looking for injured fish and then challenge them in court! Again, april 16th is the date set for BK court and we will see the truth.
I hope Cosmo can pull it off as it's a classy development, better then what Bosa does which is boring and out dated already!

sandiegodweller Apr 9, 2008 2:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg92101 (Post 3471604)
Hardly, I've always disclosed I work for a design-builder. The reason why the above mentioned projects aren't worth more than the dirt they sit on, is that their design isn't worth any more than the dirt they sit on. To me, fully entitled and permitted is ready to build. Simplon was at that stage. I know, cause my wife worked on the con-docs over 2 years ago. I'm not saying that fully entitled, permitted projects add double digit percentage, but it will add on any cost / carry for the design and the time to do it.

It wasn't directed towards you.

How are the approved plans for CosmoSquare worth more than the dirt if no one wants to build it?

Go back and read about The Elle project near Little Italy. http://cfx.signonsandiego.com/uniont...1m19condo.html. If no one uses your plans, they aren't worth much.

"The leader of the pack in condo redesign is probably the Elle, once proposed as a 173-unit housing project on A Street in Little Italy.

The Elle is now Columbia Tower, a 364-room hotel proposed by a new owner. The hotel will include 63 condo units. "


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