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DDP Feb 2, 2018 2:20 PM

Why havn't any of these airlines tried to take a stab at Ottawa, Montreal or Quebec City?

All big populations, all have some pretty big draw for tourists.

I always hear it is the landing fee's, but Edmonton and Halifax have regular airports and these ULCC are trying there, Flair air is starting out of Pearson as well.

DrNest Feb 2, 2018 3:47 PM

I too find it strange to hear that the use of CYHM and CYXX is due to cheap landing fees, but then Flair is operating out of Pearson to CYEG. I would be interested to see what the passenger load figures are like for this route compared to WestJet and Air Canada.

chris Feb 2, 2018 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8070332)
This may the death knell for Jetlines. It's been talked about so long and has delivered minimal actual results that it is 'vaporware'.

I could see Flair surviving. They've already added service to Pearson and Vancouver.

With Swoop, Westjet is pretty zealously guarding against any incursions into their turf.

Jetlines ain't gonna be happening. The market is getting way too crowded. Don't forget, AC Rouge is also in this domestic market now.

SaskOttaLoo Feb 2, 2018 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDP (Post 8070751)
Why havn't any of these airlines tried to take a stab at Ottawa, Montreal or Quebec City?

All big populations, all have some pretty big draw for tourists.

I always hear it is the landing fee's, but Edmonton and Halifax have regular airports and these ULCC are trying there, Flair air is starting out of Pearson as well.

I'm wondering the same. It would be amazing to have better connections to QC for vacation.

DrNest Feb 2, 2018 6:08 PM

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the movements for Vancouver International Water Aerodrome (CAM9) are included in totals for CYVR or counted as a separate entity?

LeftCoaster Feb 2, 2018 10:25 PM

Final numbers in for YVR, 2017 growth at 8.4% on the year putting the final pax at a very respectable 24,166,122, or 1.88 million more than 2016.

Highlights of the growth were:
  • 5.4% increase in the domestic sector
  • 27.7% increase in Latin American flying
  • 2.3% increase in European traffic
  • 9.7% increase in transborder
  • 15.5% increase in Asia Pacific

The Asia Pacific is really a big driver of growth, as that 15.5% increase meant well over an extra half million passengers over 2016. This growth should continue but at a slightly lower pace for 2018 as China has maxed out it's Canada slots and AC is only starting 2 new routes (Melbourne and Delhi year round service).

zahav Feb 2, 2018 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 8071650)
Final numbers in for YVR, 2017 growth at 8.4% on the year putting the final pax at a very respectable 24,166,122, or 1.88 million more than 2016.

Highlights of the growth were:
  • 5.4% increase in the domestic sector
  • 27.7% increase in Latin American flying
  • 2.3% increase in European traffic
  • 9.7% increase in transborder
  • 15.5% increase in Asia Pacific

The Asia Pacific is really a big driver of growth, as that 15.5% increase meant well over an extra half million passengers over 2016. This growth should continue but at a slightly lower pace for 2018 as China has maxed out it's Canada slots and AC is only starting 2 new routes (Melbourne and Delhi year round service).

AC is also starting Paris and Zurich (seasonal, but will still be a fairly large bump in Europe traffic). Then the 2x weekly Hainan, AA to Chicago, WS to Mexico City. Growth will undoubtedly slow from the super high levels of the past 2 years though.

Johnny Aussie Feb 2, 2018 11:42 PM

My take on the YVR stats I posted in the YVR thread...

Pretty impressive numbers, stats and comparisons...

Where to even start.... overall every stat is up. Europe charters were a blip in December because the once weekly LGW is being discontinued for the winter.

Looking at the annual figures just blows my mind.

Annual domestic exceeded YYC for the first time in.... no idea when but it’s been years. Over 300,000 more. Last year YYC squeaked ahead by about 18,000.

The gap in total international with YUL grew to over 1.18 million. Last year the gap was under 1,000,000. And the total pax gap with YUL has grown to over 6,000,000.

So YVR #2 for overall, domestic and international. Total growth in pax numbers will easily be #2 with an overall increase over 1.88M. YYZ will easily win the total pax increase.

For those interested SEA has also released 2017 stats..... only up a surprisingly low 2.6% to just over 46.93 million so YVR now over 50% of SEA. Total international was 5.13 million. I was surprised to see international at SEA was actually down in December.

thenoflyzone Feb 3, 2018 1:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8071114)
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the movements for Vancouver International Water Aerodrome (CAM9) are included in totals for CYVR or counted as a separate entity?

I believe so, yes.

In 2016, YVR had 325,975 movements. (source: NavCan)
52,000 of those were VFR movements. A good chunk of that has to be CAM9.
Also, of those 325,975, almost 30,000 were piston aircraft movements. Again, most likely CAM9.

CAM9 sits right on top of YVR after all, and is within the YVR control zone.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=49.1833333...art=301&zoom=1

thenoflyzone Feb 3, 2018 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8071756)

So YVR #2 for overall, domestic and international.


YVR is #2 for overall, domestic and transborder.

YUL is #2 for international....;)

Johnny Aussie Feb 3, 2018 2:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8071871)
YVR is #2 for overall, domestic and transborder.

YUL is #2 for international....;)

Actually no.

YVR is #2 for total international. YVR is the #2 point of entry into Canada. Yes, YVR is also #2 for transborder.

Definition of international... aircraft takes off in one country and lands in another.

YUL is #2 for non-US international about 700,000 more than YVR. 4 years ago that gap was over 1,000,000.

So yeah.. YVR is #2 for overall, domestic, total international and transborder and #3 for non-US international.

Come on YYZ... it's Feb 2018... you're still sitting on October 2017 stats!!:shrug:

Alexcaban Feb 3, 2018 3:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8071756)
The gap in total international with YUL grew to over 1.18 million. Last year the gap was under 1,000,000. And the total pax gap with YUL has grown to over 6,000,000.

It was the same last year give or take, so nothing really new here.

Johnny Aussie Feb 3, 2018 3:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 8071907)
It was the same last year give or take, so nothing really new here.

In 2016 it was 5,695,000
In 2017 it was 6,006,000

So as I said the gap has increased to over 6,000,000 (up over 300,000).

thenoflyzone Feb 3, 2018 5:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8071876)
Actually no.

YVR is #2 for total international. YVR is the #2 point of entry into Canada. Yes, YVR is also #2 for transborder.

Definition of international... aircraft takes off in one country and lands in another.

YUL is #2 for non-US international about 700,000 more than YVR. 4 years ago that gap was over 1,000,000.

So yeah.. YVR is #2 for overall, domestic, total international and transborder and #3 for non-US international.

Come on YYZ... it's Feb 2018... you're still sitting on October 2017 stats!!:shrug:

Technically, and thanks to Harper in 2006, the Québécois form à distinct nation, and so almost all domestic passenger flights to other provinces should count as international as well, putting YUL firmly in #2 spot for total international.

Denscity Feb 3, 2018 5:04 AM

Wow YVR is doing amazingly well!

Johnny Aussie Feb 3, 2018 5:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8071987)
Technically, and thanks to Harper in 2006, the Québécois form à distinct nation, and so almost all domestic passenger flights to other provinces should count as international as well, putting YUL firmly in #2 spot for total international.

If that were the case then I suppose, technically, it would be #1 in that distinct nation, and wouldn't therefore be comparable to Canadian cities.

YYC... step right back into #3 for all categories!

Until the day I need a passport to enter Quebec, and hopefully that never happens... I'll just include Quebec as part of Canada and therefore, distinct nation or not, call "domestic" domestic.

SpongeG Feb 3, 2018 5:57 AM

Lining up Nose to Nose
The Rise of Canadian Ultra-Low-Cost Carriers

Special to Financial Post
Paula Arab
February 2, 2018
9:00 AM EST


https://financialpostcom.files.wordp...018/02/fp1.jpg
Ultra-low-cost carriers are ready to compete for the Canadian market - Supplied


Quote:

Once upon a time, WestJet Airlines was the new kid shaking up the skies, offering Canadians discount fares never before seen. With base fares as low as $29, back when minimum wage ranged from $5 to $7 an hour across Canada, WestJet created a new class of accessible and affordable air travel.

It was February 1996. Bill Clinton was president, the IRA was bombing London, and Jerry Maguire was a box-office hit.

Over in Calgary, with just three used Boeing 737-200 aircraft, 225 employees and routes between only five western cities, the little-airline-that-could, did. WestJet took on and beat the now-defunct Canadian Airlines, Canada’s second-largest airline at the time.

And Air Canada, the country’s largest carrier? It largely stood by on the tarmac, watching the match unfold between its nemesis and the fledgling carrier. Allegorically speaking, Goliath was slain, and it was a win for both David and Air Canada, which took control and absorbed Canadian Airlines in 2000.

Two decades later, history looks to be repeating itself, but with a compelling plot twist.

Now Canada’s second-largest carrier with 12,000-plus employees and more than 163 planes, this time it’s WestJet that’s fending off the upstarts. At least three ultra-low-cost carriers (ULCC) are planning to bring the unbundled, no-frills model to Canada. In a pre-emptive strike against the new competition, WestJet announced plans to start its own ULCC, Swoop, in June.
Quote:

A big reason is thanks to the federal government’s relaxation of foreign ownership rules, as it moves to change the law this year to allow up to 49 per cent foreign ownership of Canadian airlines, an increase from 25 per cent today. It’s already granted that permission to upstart Canada Jetlines Ltd. (TSX.V: JET), and Calgary-based Enerjet, which launched as a charter service in 2006 and wants to transition to a ULCC, under the name FlyToo.

Vancouver-based Jetlines hopes to be flying by the summer of 2018, aiming service to six cities, including Hamilton, Ont., Abbotsford, B.C., and Halifax, N.S.

The increase in foreign ownership is critical to an airline’s ability to raise capital. For startups, cash in hand, and plenty of it, is integral to the equation of success, particularly when it involves launching the kind of offensive that’s required to break a duopoly. But breaking a duopoly can and has been done.
...

http://business.financialpost.com/bu...-nose-to-nosev

thenoflyzone Feb 3, 2018 1:13 PM

Johnny, I'm joking bud.

I'm simply reading what it says next to the lines "intl" for both YVR and YUL in their 2017 totals, and it just so happens YUL's is larger.

Clearly, all airports in this country feel the need to separate "transborder". As I've said before, I understand the reasoning behind it (and it also might be a Stats Can requirement), but I agree with you also, that intl is intl.

Pretty easy to get you riled up these days !

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG (Post 8072022)
The Rise and Fall of Canadian Ultra-Low-Cost Carriers

There, fixed it for ya !

Besides, wake me up when these so called Canadian ULCC's decide to serve the nation of Quebec, which would benefit the most from more competition on the domestic front.....

(Links in french only)

https://www.lesoleil.com/actualite/g...692a6a6d60ab91

At least AC recently lowered some prices for intra-Quebec flying.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/na...ses-tarifs.php

That last link says it all...

round trip airfares, (5 feb-9 feb), based on google flights.

YUL-YGP 900$
YUL-YUY 907$
YUL-YZV 770$
YUL-YGR 861$
============
YUL-PEK 682$
YUL-CDG 659$
YUL-NYC 374$

DrNest Feb 3, 2018 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8071860)
I believe so, yes.

In 2016, YVR had 325,975 movements. (source: NavCan)
52,000 of those were VFR movements. A good chunk of that has to be CAM9.
Also, of those 325,975, almost 30,000 were piston aircraft movements. Again, most likely CAM9.

CAM9 sits right on top of YVR after all, and is within the YVR control zone.

https://skyvector.com/?ll=49.1833333...art=301&zoom=1

That makes sense. I figured it most likely would be. If I ever go to CYVR on a fam flight I'll have to ask.

Acajack Feb 3, 2018 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8072014)
If that were the case then I suppose, technically, it would be #1 in that distinct nation, and wouldn't therefore be comparable to Canadian cities.

YYC... step right back into #3 for all categories!

Until the day I need a passport to enter Quebec, and hopefully that never happens... I'll just include Quebec as part of Canada and therefore, distinct nation or not, call "domestic" domestic.

You're originally Canadian, aren't you?


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