A single large Lowe's similar to Home Depot and Kent would likely be much more feasible than the existing Rona buildings. Aside from prices the problem was the very old and outdated setup of the old Chester Dawe buildings which could not really compare to Home Depot or Kent.

I think they tried to compete with Kents in the east end with the new store which is a lovely looking store. But the prices were higher than Canadian Tire and Kent (and Wal Mart) which was also right there. I saw some people mention customer service but I had some bad service experiences there.

Kent, not Kents. Many people call it Kents but this is incorrect. Just saying! :)

With Bowring and Bombay on Stavanger Drive both closing up as well, Stavanger is starting to resemble a graveyard more than a shopping centre. Hopefully the rest will hang on. There are still thousands of people on the doorstep of Stavanger Drive, and the need for a local shopping area certainly exists. The area was always super busy when Costco was open but pretty quiet otherwise. A Walmart employee told me that the Stavanger location is the least busiest of the four in metro. A Sport Chek employee also told me that the Village location has over double the sales of the Stavanger location.

My beef with Stavanger was that the infrastructure never supported the amount of traffic it drew to the area. The roads were always congested and nothing was really done as more and more stores set up in the district. It got to the point, at least for me, that going to Stavanger meant going to Costco and leaving directly afterwards, with a quick stop to Walmart every once and a while. Having Costco move to Galway could (in the long run) be a blessing in disguise for Stavanger area. There'll be some adjustment period for sure. It won't draw the crowds like it used to but there's definitely enough population living in the area to support the remaining businesses. Plus, the ability to get around without having blood pressure readings of 200/150 will be a good thing. :)

I think another big hit for the area was Cineplex's buy out of Empire and shutting down the theatre expansion for Hebron. There were quite a few businesses setting up there with the intentions of Empire theatres anchoring the area. Businesses such as Verifin moving into the area sure helps out. But evenings and weekends there seem pretty dead.

Stavanger power centre has been around for 25 plus years now. I think this is a part of the evolutionary change of the retail market. I don't think you'll see Stavanger completely die, just going through a re-adjustment phase.

And to think one time there was Target and a Future Shop on top of everything else that's there now....

Biggest problem with Stavanger is Stavanger Drive itself in my opinion. Why it isn't 4 lanes I just don't understand.

I think Stavanger is going to be going through a change. Costco going, Rona going(although probably wasn't much of an impact on the area) the old Target/Zellers building doesn't have a large tenant. I don't see Walmart or Dominion leaving. Best Buy is the only real major exclusive there now. If that moves it certainly won't ever be the same imo.

I'd argue Michaels as well as a major exclusive right now as well. They are almost always busy and one of many people's gotos for craft supplies. I rarely go to Best Buy but go to Michaels like once a week lol.

Yes I think Stavanger will readjust without Costco. Most of the traffic has always been Costco with people getting in and out as quick as they can. I doubt most of the other businesses saw much in the way of Costco spin-off. I would imagine Dominion, WalMart (which seems always busy to me), Marks, Princess Auto, Staples will be fine. The biggest thing with RONA was contractors so I wouldn't imagine that'll have an impact. The lunch trade over by Canadian Tire is busy with the offices in the area - Milestones definitely felt the most impact from the cancelled theatre.

Of possible note (or not) I was at the Stavanger Dominion to get a flu shot yesterday and there were people from head office there on a surprise visit. Maybe some changes to compete with the WalMart SuperCentre?

Yes, Stavanger will survive without the aforementioned businesses - and will continue to grow, albeit at a slower rate I figure. The hardest part of all this is the loss of jobs. Over 300 people will be out of work come February. I'm sure a percentage will find jobs elsewhere and another percentage were close to retirement and hopefully will get a retirement package (many were unionized workers). But there'll still be a number of those without jobs in the New Year. Hardly seems fair, especially when you dedicate a large part of your life working for an organization only for the suits to fly in, tell you that you're loosing your job and then fly out. Very callous IMO.

The Avalon Mall Parking Garage is supposed to open morning of Nov 9th, just in time for their midnight madness.

The walkway doesn't look finished, parts of the facade are still not installed and they were pouring concrete this morning.

Given this is the Avalon Mall's 20% off night, I would imagine this was a hard deadline to have the parking garage (if not completed) operational.

The garage is open. All of the escalators haven't been certified for operation as of yet but the stairs and elevators are ready to go.

Was in there today. It's pretty large and was quite full already even though it's only the first day it's been open. Escalators are not operational yet.

Though I will say the design of the garage is not perfect and I really wouldn't be surprised if there were some fender benders in there. One particular corner of the garage has a very awkward turn...especially considering it's supposed to be for 2-way traffic.

Re: Avalon Mall parking garage, cramped, tight turns, curbs, dead ends, signage lacking. Seems dysfunctional so far.

Is there anything positive about this multi-million dollar piece of substantial infrastructure?

I thought the garage, the connection to the mall, and the new hallway you walk into when you get to the mall all looked very nice when I was there on Friday :shrug: A massive upgrade from the old link over to the mall.

The former Target store in the Stavanger area - did that used to be a Zellers?

Yes it was.

Retail in flux: How the ride down Stavanger Drive is going to get bumpier
 

CBC NL
NOV 13, 2018
Author: Ariana Kelland

Here's a news story which talks about the changing retail landscape of Stavanger Dr.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...nges-1.4896857

We were getting doom and gloom stories about Churchill Square not that long ago.

Stavanger will change and personally I think it'll be a good change at the end. A mix of offices and commercial, more of a local shopping area. Most of the recent closures weren't fleeing because Costco is moving but because many retail businesses are in trouble because of changing shopping patterns (ie online shopping).

My technical market analysis:

!!!STAVANGER WILL BECOME THE VILLAGE MALL OF BOX CENTRE'S!!!

Stavanger Drive isn't going anywhere. What's the alternative in the area?

Smaller stores that close like Bombay and Bowring, those buildings will be snapped up in no time, much like when Golf Town closed. The larger buildings will be trouble since there aren't really any other large chains that are going to move in. Home Depot could possibly open another location in say the Rona building, but that would pretty much be it; everything else is covered.

Agreed. Hickeys could move down there I guess (they took Rona;s space further down Torbay Rd after they moved). The old Zellers/Target is still mostly empty even after they started to subdivide the space.

There's way too many rich east-enders around to prevent that from happening.

The death of big box stores and malls is not a new thing or unique to St. John's. There has been a bigger push by cities and developers to repurpose these sites especially since the 2008 housing crash and the growing desire to live in a mixed use neighbourhood. Here is a great TED talk from 2010 about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_uTsrxfYWQ

With sprawl, commercial areas leap frog past each other leaving the old and huge buildings in the older and usually more expensive areas. Add in the changing tastes of consumers and it is easy to image that more big box stores will be left vacant.

Luckily, these areas don't need to be filled with another store. There are examples of how some were turned into housing complexes, libraries, community centers and churches. The oversized and underused parking lots can even be built up with mixed use buildings and local streets. Other infrastructure like main roads and transit and grocery stores are already there. Next thing you know you have an actual neighbourhood with local people that are looking for a place to hang out and spend money. Belmar in Lakewood CO is a great example of this:
https://www.denverpost.com/2014/05/0...owth-identity/
Photos: https://urbanexus.smugmug.com/Commun...d-Denver-area/

There is hope if we use our heads and take a chance doing something different.

And more sources that you won't read but I include to back up my opinion and maybe change yours:)
https://www.popsci.com/repurposing-big-box-stores
https://99percentinvisible.org/artic...cross-america/
http://time.com/72281/american-housing/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cal...ment-1.4480936

^ Listen, you're not wrong, and I don't disagree with what you're saying. However we have to realize there's a disconnect between our expectations and reality. St. John's is still stuck in the urban planning faux-pas of yesteryear. I don't expect city council, developers, and residents to all suddenly time-warp into 2018 and realize that we could be doing better. What I would like to see happen in the area versus what will likely happen are two very different things.

It would be naive to think that a post a forum would instantly change a city. However, if you can't post ideas and examples on SkyscrapperPage, why even bother having a St. John's section?

I suspect there may be a lot more people lurking around here than you'd expect. I have followed the cities I've lived in for years without commenting. So you never know who will be reading, maybe even a councilor or developer. An idea might pique their interest or show there are different ways or there is a desire for change.

If you don't put your expectations out there you can't expect change.

Absolutely! Please continue to post. All ideas: big, small, pragmatic, pie in the sky... what have you. I may not always agree but I thoroughly enjoy reading everyone's ideas and comments. Some great ideas have been discussed in these threads over the years, and I would venture to say we have (indirectly, at least) helped create change and reshape our city positively. :cheers:

It must be a common trait among all SSP posters to have insane knee-jerk reactions. Calm down, I'm not telling you to not post your ideas. In your post you say you hope to change my opinion. You don't need to change my mind; I agree with the content you posted, reclaiming abandoned big box stores for mixed-development is smart. That being said, I was addressing whether or not Stavanger Drive is about to die. It won't die, it'll continue being an absolute traffic nightmare for many more years to come.

Despite what a lot of people think, Costco isn't the life support of the area, it's the large abundance of middle class/upper class professionals who live in the area. National chains like Bombay going belly up is out of the hands of St. John's shoppers.

Wait, isn't dramatic reactions the NL way? :D

I'm sorry that came across as knee jerk. I guess it's like when you start a reply with "Listen," and it comes across as aggressive and dismissive. The nuisances of speech don't translate well to typing.

Anyway, I hope no hard feeling and I'm cool with dropping it.

It shows that we are all passionate. If everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a forum.

Can't tell you the number of times I've re-edited posts to try and appear less inflammatory!

I also know of a couple of "well placed" folks who browse these threads from time to time, so constructive posts may help influence administrative thinking.

:cheers:

I see a bright future for Stavanger:

http://vocm.com/news/crews-battling-...rive-best-buy/

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d3&oe=5C67A212
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...cc&oe=5C7704C1
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...df&oe=5C7A00C8

Stumbled across an interesting document from Olympic Constructions website on the tender for the Avalon Mall renos and expansion.
They have construction tender document posted on their website. They are quite extensive. The second document shows all of the technical drawings of the proposed repurposing of Sears space and the expansion onto the front parking lot (Eventually). Some drawings show Winners/Homesense moving into the Sears former space facing Columbus Drive/Parkway. Everything is there. Worth checking out.
Here is the link:

http://www.olympic-construction.nf.c...er/avalonmall/

That's certainly a substantial increase in square footage. Can't help but notice that they seem to be designing a lot of the new space as larger stores. That's fine, though I wonder who they're targeting as new tenants? Could the now almost 15 year rumor of H&M coming to town finally be coming to fruition?

Some interesting things I found from those links:

- The new Winners currently has an opening date of August 1st 2019
- The construction is being divided into three zones/phases
ZONE 1: New Winners + a few other new retail spaces leading to the new Winners
ZONE 2: Expansion of mall in front of Old Sears (Starting construction Winter/Spring 2019)
ZONE 3: Expansion of mall in front of current CIBC/Starbucks/Winners entrances
- The mall will gain 31,200 square feet of space when all is done (+ Sears space + Winners old space)
- And, one image seemed to show a set of stairs or escalators in the new expansion...? (https://imgur.com/a/OHD8TmL)

Good find!

Aside from the Wiiners space, I guess the other spaces can be chopped up based on tenant’s needs. Some time ago a Rep from mall said there will be space for about 40 new retail stores. So I assume some of those other large spaces might be eventually subdivided at some point to accommodate.

Gawd, if they don’t entice H&M and Forever 21 after they get all this new space, there’s no hope left in the world. Lol.

Thanks.

I just googled Avalon Mall expansion and that site came up.

That is a really great find! Thanks for sharing! It's funny how many times the simplest search turns up the best results... Occam's Razor at work! :cheers:

Those stores are garbage! :)

Wish for a Uniqlo!

Ron.

All the mall chain stores are pretty much the same. Though H&M and Forever 21 seem to have and huge following based on what people on here who are always raving about it and also on social media. They are obviously a draw whether you like them or not.

Is it just me or has that retail strip adjacent to Kelsey's on Kenmount Rd. been pretty much vacant since it's been there...

It' been there for a few years now hasn't it?

True.. though people are always raving about Taco Bell as well.. that doesn't say much. :)

Ron.

Dear God, friggin' Taco Bell.

A few years for sure. Madison McKenzie and Healthquest seem to the only stores in there

My wife told me (I think she may have read a tweet) that Madison MacKenzie have plans to relocate. Unsubstantiated, of course, but that's what I heard. A possibility that, in due time, there will only be one store in the plaza. I wonder if high rent may be an issue????

Not sure if this is what you’re referring to, but Madison MacKenzie just move a week or two ago to another location in the same building.

Madison MacKensie which had on of the larger spaces seems to be moving directly next door into what looks like a smaller store. It’s been renovated with Madison’s Corp colours of that purplish pink facade which makes it jump out more when you are driving by.

My issue with that strip mall is location. It’s kinda awkward and a little dangerous getting in and out of the parking lot. When entering their parking lot heading west on Kenmount, I think most drivers assume you are gonna be turning onto Kelsey Drive so rear end collsions seems to be more of a threat there.

That was the move... my apologies. I thought they were relocating somewhere else. Thanks for the clarification.

Fog City Re-location
 

Great find!

Don't see anything on proposed re-location of Fog City to stand alone building in parking lot?? Area I would have thought it would go shows "Future Retail Pad".