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-   -   NEW YORK | Central Park Tower (Nordstrom)| 1,550 FT | 131 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191095)

King DenCity Sep 5, 2013 5:37 PM

^ I totally agree

sbarn Sep 5, 2013 5:41 PM

It does seem odd that a developer would spend money to purchase FAR (air rights) off neighbors but then not use all them. It doesn't seem like a wise use of money. Especially since air rights are necessarily very cheap, particularly in this location.

I am still hoping for a 1550 ft tower but now bracing for something shorter.

NYC2ATX Sep 5, 2013 6:11 PM

I would venture this hypothesis...Barnett may have opted to obtain as many air rights as he could so that he could have some wiggle room with the design, but I do believe, based on his own rhetoric and the design for One57, that he is prioritizing good design and building iconic structures that will come to define New York in the 21st Century. If he is considering not building to the full permitted height, that is likely because he has seen the design the architects have created, or possibly even worked with them through the design process, and the best design was not necessarily the tallest. If a shorter tower brings the best design, I support it fully. :cheers:

Zapatan Sep 5, 2013 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Towersteve (Post 6255824)
I'd bet the building will end up being closer to 1,550' despite the rumors. The higher floors are worth the most due to the views.

Judging from the quotes NYGuy posted I would say we are not getting a 1550 footer since the more recent articles show doubt of that height. It was back in November we thought we were getting something that high.

Quote:

Barnett was more skeptical. “I don’t think it will turn out to be the tallest building,” he said.
Quote:

he may choose to forego the full 1,550 feet.
Just be happy with a 1250 footer, cuz it won't be taller.


I don't see any reason not to believe him

Quote:

Good morning all,

as I understand, many here are disappointed with the height reduction. To be honest, until recently I didn't know about the project itself, never mind the 1550' figure. So I guess I'm actually quite happy we are getting a solid 1200 footer here.

Also, there seems to be some disbelief regarding my information. And that's OK, because if I were a long time member of Skyscraper City, I'd probably get a bit suspicious too. I have been a lurker for quite some time now (since 2012 when I became interested in Manhattan buildings, due to the rising significance of the new World Trade Center), and decided to join the forum to provide you guys with some news.

Now let me say / repeat some facts:
1. I never got to see the actual renderings / height figures, meaning it's second-hand.
2. The colleague from which I got my info works at Extell, not me (see previous posts).
3. Thus he has no reason to spread wrong info. Yes, it could be a hype to spread wrong info, but it's very unlikely. I know him pretty well, and there's just no logical reason he would lie to me.

All I can say is, that I just post (inside) information which I have been fed with. No more, no less. It's up to you to decide if you believe it or not.

Me, I'm way too old and too busy with work to jerk around.

Have a nice day all,


Regards,
James

supertallchaser Sep 5, 2013 7:33 PM

honestly barnett has the ability to construct a building 1550ft in height,if anything it could be a preview of whats to come. but green cladding sounds disgusting,id rather see an art deco inspired building with a twist of modern archetecture

franktko Sep 5, 2013 7:39 PM

It's a bit weird when James states that "1. I never got to see the actual renderings / height figures" but then goes on describing the color and set backs...

MarshallKnight Sep 5, 2013 7:57 PM

It'd be pointless to ask Extell or SmithGill for comment, right?

CCs77 Sep 5, 2013 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbarn (Post 6255872)
It does seem odd that a developer would spend money to purchase FAR (air rights) off neighbors but then not use all them. It doesn't seem like a wise use of money. Especially since air rights are necessarily very cheap, particularly in this location.

I am still hoping for a 1550 ft tower but now bracing for something shorter.

He still could be using all the Air Rights he purchased. As I understand, the addition of more air rights means that he could build more square footage, but not necessarily more height. I mean, he can still be building the same amount of square feet he's always intended to, but he is distributing them in less floors with larger surface because he found that option more convenient, or he could have made the base larger too.
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

King DenCity Sep 5, 2013 8:40 PM

There are many options here.
1. He's messing with us
2. He's telling the truth
3. He has dated and or wrong info
4. He is trying to confuse us for if it really ends up being 1550'
5. He is confusing this with an entirely different project

One of them.

sbarn Sep 5, 2013 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCs77 (Post 6256151)
He still could be using all the Air Rights he purchased. As I understand, the addition of more air rights means that he could build more square footage, but not necessarily more height. I mean, he can still be building the same amount of square feet he's always intended to, but he is distributing them in less floors with larger surface because he found that option more convenient, or he could have made the base larger too.
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

Good point. Although it would seem odd that he would build a shorter fatter tower when the market has shown that taller, skinner residential towers seem to sell well. The Nordstroms base will take up a lot of FAR but last announcement actually said that the store will occupy less square footage than originally announced.

Anyway, I'm holding out for an official announcement, but definitely preparing for / anticipating a bit of disappointment.

King DenCity Sep 5, 2013 9:22 PM

^I will imagine it as a 1250 footer and dream of a 1550 footer until official news is released, speaking of... why would they let the info leak?

ILNY Sep 5, 2013 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbarn (Post 6256194)
Anyway, I'm holding out for an official announcement, but definitely preparing for / anticipating a bit of disappointment.

Same here. Waiting for an official statement by the end of September. If there is none, that will mean than 1250 height decrease rumors were just ...rumors.

NYguy Sep 5, 2013 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbarn (Post 6255872)
It does seem odd that a developer would spend money to purchase FAR (air rights) off neighbors but then not use all them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCs77 (Post 6256151)
He still could be using all the Air Rights he purchased. As I understand, the addition of more air rights means that he could build more square footage, but not necessarily more height.

It could go either way. There is not height limit, so how the developer chooses to distribute those air rights is the question. A shorter tower would just be a little bulkier, but could be the same size. That's why I say Barnett doesn't have anything to lose with a shorter building. Also, they are trying to build within the existing zoning so there is no need for an approval process. That means everything from streetwall to setbacks must fit into the existing language.

easy as pie Sep 5, 2013 11:51 PM

yeah, "air rights" just means far within the existing zoning envelope, going tall means going thinner, he could have other plans because of nordstrom or layout or whatever. also, there's a possibility that he might see selling/transfering unused rights to a nearby site as more profitable than building it out himself on this site, for whatever reason.

jackster99 Sep 6, 2013 2:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easy as pie (Post 6256421)
yeah, "air rights" just means far within the existing zoning envelope, going tall means going thinner, he could have other plans because of nordstrom or layout or whatever. also, there's a possibility that he might see selling/transfering unused rights to a nearby site as more profitable than building it out himself on this site, for whatever reason.

That's a very interesting point. Obviously just hypothesizing here, but it's possible Barnett sold some of the unused air rights (if there were any) to Vornado at 220 CPS as part of the recently announced agreement between Vornado and Extell. Would be nice if 220 CPS went above 1000 feet as well considering it is supposedly being designed by Robert AM Stern

NYguy Sep 6, 2013 8:57 PM

I doubt Barnett has sold anything. They recently just expanded the sight slightly with the addition of the Beethoven Pianos building, adding size to the development. If the height has changed, the layout has changed, that's all.

Onn Sep 6, 2013 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6257660)
I doubt Barnett has sold anything. They recently just expanded the sight slightly with the addition of the Beethoven Pianos building, adding size to the development. If the height has changed, the layout has changed, that's all.

All the more reason that the design and height might not even be finalized just yet. :)

chris08876 Sep 6, 2013 10:27 PM

I wouldn't be pessimistic, either way something good is going to happen. Shit, even if they decide to make it 1,250ft, lets not complain. Even 1000, still amazing. Whatever is economically viable will get built. Unlike China, we build on demand and efficiency, not height and title. It will be a jewel nevertheless.

JayPro Sep 6, 2013 10:47 PM

Let this sink in really slowly so you can see it in your minds' eyes just as clearly as if you were looking at the real thing.
This tower, One57 and 107 will give us three +1000-footers side by side by side on the same street for the first time in this Town's history. Hell, just for shiggles add TVerre @1,050' and 432P if you want.
Matter of fact, I challenge you to name any other big city in this country where this can be found...or where the likelihood of this happening anytime soon exists.

King DenCity Sep 7, 2013 1:41 AM

^Good point, if it ends up under 1550' then let's just have an attitude of gratitude. If It ends up Taller then we can have an attitude of; OMG THIS IS EVEN BETTER!


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