SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

le calmar Nov 5, 2019 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal (Post 8739591)
You can't build an entire new transit system in just 1 phase. The CAQ has committed to extend the REM for nearly 40 km to Laval and Chambly, 17km in Laval, North Shore, and 22km , South Shore.

Those extensions will not provide connections to the Métro though (unless I am wrong).

p_xavier Nov 5, 2019 6:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 8739610)
Those extensions will not provide connections to the Métro though (unless I am wrong).

Yes, they were explained to be an extension for Chambly and a new branch for Laval.

Acajack Nov 5, 2019 7:00 PM

I also assume that they cannot connect to métro lines in areas where there are no métro lines, right?

p_xavier Nov 5, 2019 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8739689)
I also assume that they cannot connect to métro lines in areas where there are no métro lines, right?

Well duh, but the planned lines are IMO expected to connect to the metro trough the Mount Royal tunnel.

Acajack Nov 5, 2019 7:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_xavier (Post 8739706)
Well duh, but the planned lines are IMO expected to connect to the metro trough the Mount Royal tunnel.

Of course, that's what I was saying. :)

zahav Nov 5, 2019 10:37 PM

Can the train discussion go to the Transit thread? I know it started as a YUL tie in, but this discussion isn't airport related anymore.

3/4 of the major airports have reported September stats, YUL being the exception. YVR turned things around after a bleak August to post 2.8% growth in September, after declining 1.2% in August. Domestic and transborder up (transborder was also the only sector up in August) but still definite weakness from the international side. See breakdown below:

Overall
YYZ -0.2%
YVR +2.8%
YYC +3.3%

Domestic
YYZ +0.8%
YVR +5.7%
YYC +0.5%

Transborder
YYZ +0.4%
YVR +2.5%
YYC +8.0%

International
YYZ -1.6%
YVR -1.8%
YYC +17.3%

Interesting the overalls and breakdowns. The weakness in international is definitely clear at YYZ and YVR, but YYC is not affected. Domestic is anemic at YYC and YYZ but strong at YVR. And then for overall traffic, YYZ declined (due to the dominance of international on overall numbers) while YVR and YYC had small gains overall. YUL has been doing quite well all year so let's see what September brings. But definitely things are much more tempered across the board.

PS I am not posting Edmonton stats, you can check their thread for the details on what's happening to traffic there

thenoflyzone Nov 6, 2019 12:21 AM

YUL September is up 4.3%, but no breakdown available just yet. Pretty safe to assume international number is leading the growth %.

whywhyzee Nov 6, 2019 3:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8740002)
Can the train discussion go to the Transit thread? I know it started as a YUL tie in, but this discussion isn't airport related anymore.

3/4 of the major airports have reported September stats, YUL being the exception. YVR turned things around after a bleak August to post 2.8% growth in September, after declining 1.2% in August. Domestic and transborder up (transborder was also the only sector up in August) but still definite weakness from the international side. See breakdown below:

Overall
YYZ -0.2%
YVR +2.8%
YYC +3.3%

Domestic
YYZ +0.8%
YVR +5.7%
YYC +0.5%

Transborder
YYZ +0.4%
YVR +2.5%
YYC +8.0%

International
YYZ -1.6%
YVR -1.8%
YYC +17.3%

Interesting the overalls and breakdowns. The weakness in international is definitely clear at YYZ and YVR, but YYC is not affected. Domestic is anemic at YYC and YYZ but strong at YVR. And then for overall traffic, YYZ declined (due to the dominance of international on overall numbers) while YVR and YYC had small gains overall. YUL has been doing quite well all year so let's see what September brings. But definitely things are much more tempered across the board.

PS I am not posting Edmonton stats, you can check their thread for the details on what's happening to traffic there

It has been an absolutely abysmal year for Canada's two largest airports, YVR and YYZ. Tensions with China, Hong Kong Civil unrest Pakistan/Indian airspace closures and multiple airline bankruptcies have decimated numbers, let alone the max. This year has been a perfect storm in many of the markets YYZ and YVR traditionally are very strong in. I anticipate a change in trajectory over the winter as things stabilize, and a return to positive growth next year.

zahav Nov 6, 2019 4:12 AM

Yes I agree, the numbers have definitely come way down to earth after years of really good growth. Asia was always perennially a source of huge growth so to have that down is big. I wish other airports posted breakdown of international like YVR does, since it really shows what's happening. But I assume YYZ is having similar levelling off across different geographic areas too. For YVR, the "Misc." category basically encompassed Latin America (since that is the only international zone for flights outside of Europe and Asia/Pacifc) and had been growing at upwards of 40% year over year, so I am not surprised to see it coming back to normal levels. Asia Pac and Europe actually had much smaller declines in September than in August, but it is too soon to see if the declines have levelled off.

esquire Nov 6, 2019 2:03 PM

Considering how much the numbers have grown over the years, is it time to maybe start cheering for a bit of a levelling off or even reduction considering the environmental impact of all these flights?

whywhyzee Nov 6, 2019 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8740477)
Considering how much the numbers have grown over the years, is it time to maybe start cheering for a bit of a levelling off or even reduction considering the environmental impact of all these flights?


Globally, aviation is responsible for only a tiny percentage of total carbon emissions, not to mention it is one of the most efficient forms of transport per passenger kilometer. There is no better way, no effective replacement, especially as distance increases.

hollywoodcory Nov 6, 2019 2:29 PM

Now that I'm back home in Canada, I had a chance to fully review WS S20 long haul plans and just noticed they've reduced YYZ-BCN's season next year. Its only loaded until 13SEP20. This year it went until around October 20.

Still nothing planned on the 767s other than BCN and some YYC-YYZ runs.

whywhyzee Nov 6, 2019 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8740514)
Now that I'm back home in Canada, I had a chance to fully review WS S20 long haul plans and just noticed they've reduced YYZ-BCN's season next year. Its only loaded until 13SEP20. This year it went until around October 20.

Still nothing planned on the 767s other than BCN and some YYC-YYZ runs.

Interesting. It starts a few weeks earlier next year vs this, the S20 schedule sounds like it favours the peak O/D season and cuts the winter shoulder.

MonctonRad Nov 6, 2019 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8740495)
Globally, aviation is responsible for only a tiny percentage of total carbon emissions, not to mention it is one of the most efficient forms of transport per passenger kilometer. There is no better way, no effective replacement, especially as distance increases.

‘Worse Than Anyone Expected’: Air Travel Emissions Vastly Outpace Predictions
NYT Sept 19, 2019
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/c...emissions.html

Quote:

Over all, air travel accounts for about 2.5 percent of global carbon dioxide emissions — a far smaller share than emissions from passenger cars or power plants. Still, one study found that the rapid growth in plane emissions could mean that by 2050, aviation could take up a quarter of the world’s “carbon budget,” or the amount of carbon dioxide emissions permitted to keep global temperature rise to within 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels.
Quote:

Underlying the growth in aviation emissions is the rapid expansion of air travel worldwide, propelled by a proliferation of low-cost airlines and a booming tourism industry catering to a growing middle class.
Quote:

In Germany, the Green Party has suggested banning domestic air travel altogether to force Germans to travel by train, which pollutes less.

esquire Nov 6, 2019 6:19 PM

^ The tourism angle is the one I was thinking about. I mean, you can only go so far when people own a house and drive to work. Changing those high carbon footprint habits will take a while.

But think about how many people fly simply for fun, or for non-essential work travel (not talking about travel to perform surgery or be a witness at a trial, but for attending conferences, visiting client sites, etc.). Definitely some low hanging fruit there.

zahav Nov 6, 2019 9:31 PM

I don't think any airport/airlines enthusiasts are happy when traffic declines or routes cut, even if it is technically good for the environment. The good thing is that as older planes get cut from fleets, the new planes are way more fuel efficient and technology will only help with that. Planes in the older days were far far worse than now (just like cars).

wave46 Nov 6, 2019 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8740477)
Considering how much the numbers have grown over the years, is it time to maybe start cheering for a bit of a levelling off or even reduction considering the environmental impact of all these flights?

The ultra-long haul stuff is about the worst from an environmental perspective.

You spend tons of fuel just to haul tons of fuel a long distance. The longer the flight is, the exponential rise in fuel required.

Once upon a time, flying was so expensive that one could afford only a handful of intercontinental flights in a lifetime. Now, it's so ridiculously affordable as a Europe trip can be as little as a few days.

I also have a sneaking suspicion that we're somewhere close to 'peak travel'. There's got to be a point where a lot of these tourist destinations get sick of hordes of people descending upon them. Some places in Europe have reached that point already. It's one thing if you're Las Vegas and that's your shtick, but I can't really imagine people in these little formerly bucolic places (think the coasts of Italy or something like that) really want more tourists cramming the place.

I'd imagine airports like YYZ probably could use the break as well.

zahav Nov 6, 2019 9:51 PM

You're right in that some places are sick of tourists, but I don't think we are at "peak travel" at all. People like to travel and explore new places, they always have, so new technology, increased wealth (globally), and lower costs of travel all point to increasing demand, not decreased.

And again with the YYZ comment, no airport wants "a break" from increasing flights and destinations. And if they do, then there's something wring with how they are being run...

LeftCoaster Nov 6, 2019 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8740244)
It has been an absolutely abysmal year for Canada's two largest airports, YVR and YYZ. Tensions with China, Hong Kong Civil unrest Pakistan/Indian airspace closures and multiple airline bankruptcies have decimated numbers, let alone the max. This year has been a perfect storm in many of the markets YYZ and YVR traditionally are very strong in. I anticipate a change in trajectory over the winter as things stabilize, and a return to positive growth next year.

I'm shocked YVR was up for September given everthing going on. AisaPac was down 1.1%, which looks bad until you realize that total seats available were down over 7%, so yields were way up. Even more surprising given the situation in Vancouver's biggest international market, HongKong. I too expect things to turn around, though probably not for another year at YVR. Summer 2020 cuts look even more severe than 2019 as Air Transat has all but abandoned the market, WestJet does not seem interested in growing YVR, and Air Canada has no frames left to provide any growth.

I bet 2021 is a big year though, people still need to get places and the demand sure seems to be there.

thenoflyzone Nov 7, 2019 10:20 PM

The growth at YUL should continue well into the Winter 2019/2020 season. No more Norwegian this winter, but it is more than made up by other carriers and routes that are operating this winter. 6% more sun seats, 12% more europe and Asia seats.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...0%28002%29.pdf

Quote:

NEW ORLEANS AND SÃO PAULO STARTING OUT OF YUL THIS WINTER

Montréal, November 4, 2019 – New direct flights now confirmed for the winter season will soon be offered out of YUL Montréal–Trudeau International Airport, as the city continues to attract travellers from all over the world. Such a wide variety of available destinations continues to establish YUL as an important international hub.
Highlights for the winter:

• Two new destinations will be added to YUL’s offering: New Orleans, Louisiana, reachable year-round via Air Transat (November 3), and São Paulo, Brazil, operated by Air Canada during the winter season as of December 11.
• Accessible for the first time out of YUL by direct flight, São Paulo will offer business travellers an opportunity to easily reach one of the most important economic and industrial centres.
• The winter season will also see an increase in the number of seats offered to several destinations, including 6% more to sun destinations and 12% more to Europe, the Middle East and Asia. Additionally, the international sector will experience 11% growth this winter.
• Air Canada will add four weekly flights to its Montréal–Tokyo route, and will increase seating by 50%.
• Air Transat will now operate its flight to Madrid year-round, while Austrian Airlines, a new carrier that just joined the YUL family on April 29, will offer its Montréal– Vienna service during the winter season.
• Corsair will fly to Paris year-round, while Air Canada will increase service on its Montréal-Lyon route to four flights weekly


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:45 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.