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thewave46 Sep 19, 2022 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9735399)
The problem is we have no idea if they're making buckets of money or how much they're getting in incentives. I guess none of us here can accurately gauge how well they're doing.

Indeed.

Smaller airlines tend to be privately held, so the finances are more opaque to the public. Many airlines seemed solid until they weren’t; people were showing up to the airport tickets in hand only to find that there was no airline left.

Caveat emptor, alas.

nname Sep 19, 2022 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9735413)
Indeed.

Smaller airlines tend to be privately held, so the finances are more opaque to the public. Many airlines seemed solid until they weren’t; people were showing up to the airport tickets in hand only to find that there was no airline left.

Caveat emptor, alas.

You pay less by taking risk. The less you pay, the higher the risk you take.

The same go to more established airlines like AC/WS. You pay less by booking well in advance and with lower fare class, and by taking the risk of something unexpected happens before your trip and your ticket is not refundable, or the airline suspend the route and force you to change your plan.

nname Sep 19, 2022 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9734567)
Looks like there are some updates for AC winter schedule from Nov until first half of Jan 2023.

YYZ-HND service suspended (AC will maintain 4x weekly YYZ-NRT)
YVR-HKG service reduction (from daily 789 to 4x weekly 450-seat 77W)
YYZ-ICN service increase (from 4x weekly 789 to 5x weekly 789/788 mix)

Also, looks like there's some reduction in MAD, AMS, and maybe FCO? But I'm too unfamiliar with Europe winter schedule from YYZ/YUL to comment on that.

Suspension on YVR-DEL was announced by AC and reservation closed, but the route is still in the schedule... so looks like AC can still re-open it quickly if they figure out what to do with it.

Looks like AC will suspend YYZ-MAD over the entire winter season.

Other notable AC changes on Express (only list out route suspensions)

Entire season:
YYC-YZF
YUL-BNA
YYZ-BDL,MCI,MKE

Until Feb 12:
YUL-MSY

Until Jan 15:
YUL-PHL

A lot of other Express routes have big reductions until Jan 15, some as much as half or more. Many express routes have frequency reduced by 1x or 2x daily, even if the flight originally have only 2x daily to begin with.

Interestingly enough, YZF flights are suspended from both YYC/YEG and will only run from YVR for Nov-April. Then when the flight resume from both YYC and YEG in May, AC will suspend it from YVR. I wonder why....

peytol Sep 19, 2022 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9735364)
If Flair is offering competitive wages and benefits it is hard to imagine how they are able to offer bottom feeder fares. Something fishy going on there.

Flair does not pay competitive pilot wages relative to WJ or AC, the first year or 2 as an FO is better at flair. If you are comparing them to Lynx or swoop it is better, Lynx is much lower paying than flair.

People go there for the quick upgrade.

Calfan12 Sep 19, 2022 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9735425)
Looks like AC will suspend YYZ-MAD over the entire winter season.

Other notable AC changes on Express (only list out route suspensions)

Entire season:
YYC-YZF
YUL-BNA
YYZ-BDL,MCI,MKE

Until Feb 12:
YUL-MSY

Until Jan 15:
YUL-PHL

A lot of other Express routes have big reductions until Jan 15, some as much as half or more. Many express routes have frequency reduced by 1x or 2x daily, even if the flight originally have only 2x daily to begin with.

Interestingly enough, YZF flights are suspended from both YYC/YEG and will only run from YVR for Nov-April. Then when the flight resume from both YYC and YEG in May, AC will suspend it from YVR. I wonder why....

Because Yellowknife YZF is highly seasonal flight route from Canada. Passenger demand from Calgary YYC/Edmonton YEG to Yellowknife YZF is usually during the Spring/Summer season when YZF has warmer weather.

Even though Air Canada is suspending both YYC/YEG this winter, they still have flights to YZF:

WestJet Encore will be operating YYC -YZF 1x daily,but from December 10 2022- January 3 2023 for busy Christmas holiday season is 2x daily.

Canadian North will be operating YEG- YZF route 1-2x daily this winter.

While WestJet Encore will be operating YEG - YZF a few days during this upcoming Christmas holiday season on December 23,26,30 2022 & January 2 2023 only. As the YEG - YZF route is also suspended most of this winter on WS too, not just on AC.

Calfan12 Sep 19, 2022 11:43 PM

SWOOP NW22 BOEING 737 MAX OPERATIONS – 18SEP22
Swoop in recent schedule update filed Boeing 737 MAX 8 operations for Northern winter 2022/23 season, from 30OCT22 to 25MAR23. As of 18SEP22, the airline’s planned 737 MAX operation as follows. Additional adjustment to be filed in the next few weeks.

Edmonton – London ON 08NOV22 – 08JAN23 1 weekly (2 from 27NOV22)
Halifax – Ottawa 4 weekly
Hamilton – Moncton 1 weekly (2 from 16JAN23)
Hamilton – St. John’s NFLD 6 weekly (5 from 17JAN23)

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220919-wonw227m8

hehehe Sep 20, 2022 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9735524)
SWOOP NW22 BOEING 737 MAX OPERATIONS – 18SEP22
Swoop in recent schedule update filed Boeing 737 MAX 8 operations for Northern winter 2022/23 season, from 30OCT22 to 25MAR23. As of 18SEP22, the airline’s planned 737 MAX operation as follows. Additional adjustment to be filed in the next few weeks.

Edmonton – London ON 08NOV22 – 08JAN23 1 weekly (2 from 27NOV22)
Halifax – Ottawa 4 weekly
Hamilton – Moncton 1 weekly (2 from 16JAN23)
Hamilton – St. John’s NFLD 6 weekly (5 from 17JAN23)

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220919-wonw227m8

Swoop so far seems to be kind of replacing some of the routes out east (ie YHZ-YOW) and I didn't realize they're also flying YYZ-YYG 3x weekly this winter, which is what WS mainline did pre pandemic.

Calfan12 Sep 20, 2022 12:47 AM

WESTJET NW22 HALIFAX NETWORK CHANGES
WestJet has filed additional service adjustment at Halifax, as the airline discontinues/suspends additional 2 domestic routes in Northern winter 2022/23 season.

Halifax – Montreal Last flight 28OCT22
Halifax – Ottawa Suspended 09JAN23 – 29APR23

Previously reported suspension/cancellations:
Halifax – St. John’s NFLD Suspended 10JAN23 – 29APR23
Halifax – Sydney NS Last flight 14NOV22

The airline will continue to operate following routes to/from Halifax during Northern winter 2022/23 season.
Halifax – Calgary
Halifax – Cancun
Halifax – Edmonton
Halifax – Orlando
Halifax – Toronto

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220919-wsnw22yhz

kattiff Sep 20, 2022 5:56 PM

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/to...-winter-lineup

Coldrsx Sep 20, 2022 6:40 PM

Neat graphic.
https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/forum/...ts-png.427883/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...o_their_citys/

thenoflyzone Sep 20, 2022 6:48 PM

^ do you have a link?

Need to zoom in to fully appreciate the graph.....

Here in Montreal, owners of the REM are saying downtown to YUL will take 25 minutes. Will be interesting to see if that will hold true. Seems a bit tight, considering the route/distance involved. (page header mentions 20 minutes, but if you scroll down, they are listing 25 minutes from central station to YUL, which is probably more accurate)

https://rem.info/en/airport

For anyone interested in the project, a few months ago, the tunnel boring machine finished digging the tunnel underneath the airport. So that's a one huge step of the project complete.

https://rem.info/en/actualites/TBM-alice-finishes

As for YYZ, supposedly it takes 25 min from Union station to YYZ, and yet it's not on that list.

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/tr...ing/up-express

thenoflyzone Sep 20, 2022 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9735425)
Looks like AC will suspend YYZ-MAD over the entire winter season.

Other notable AC changes on Express (only list out route suspensions)

Entire season:
YYC-YZF
YUL-BNA
YYZ-BDL,MCI,MKE

Until Feb 12:
YUL-MSY

Until Jan 15:
YUL-PHL

Jazz keeps losing a lot of pilots to AC mainline, so much so, that AC will stop hiring pilots from Jazz come October. Don't know for how long, as AC has contractual obligations to hire a certain percentage of their pilots from Jazz every year. Might explain some of these cuts. This being said, some of these routes were marginal to begin with, so add in inflation and a recession looming, and it's no wonder they're being cut.

nname Sep 20, 2022 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9736249)
As for YYZ, supposedly it takes 25 min from Union station to YYZ, and yet it's not on that list.

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/tr...ing/up-express

Maybe it is considered to be commuter rail because the train runs every 30min throughout the day. Probably too infrequent to be a "metro" or "light rail".

Dominion301 Sep 21, 2022 5:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9735573)
WESTJET NW22 HALIFAX NETWORK CHANGES
WestJet has filed additional service adjustment at Halifax, as the airline discontinues/suspends additional 2 domestic routes in Northern winter 2022/23 season.

Halifax – Montreal Last flight 28OCT22
Halifax – Ottawa Suspended 09JAN23 – 29APR23

Previously reported suspension/cancellations:
Halifax – St. John’s NFLD Suspended 10JAN23 – 29APR23
Halifax – Sydney NS Last flight 14NOV22

The airline will continue to operate following routes to/from Halifax during Northern winter 2022/23 season.
Halifax – Calgary
Halifax – Cancun
Halifax – Edmonton
Halifax – Orlando
Halifax – Toronto

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220919-wsnw22yhz

Notice how YOW and YYT are “suspended”, which means unlike YQY and YUL, those two routes are going summer seasonal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9735425)
Interestingly enough, YZF flights are suspended from both YYC/YEG and will only run from YVR for Nov-April. Then when the flight resume from both YYC and YEG in May, AC will suspend it from YVR. I wonder why....

That’s easy: the northern lights and YVR’s Asia connections.

Dominion301 Sep 21, 2022 3:09 PM

YOW's August pax stats:

Sector / Aug-21 / Aug-22 / % Change
Dom: / 207,745 / 313,159 / +50.7%
TB: 0 / 15,691 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 207,745 / 328,850 / +58.3%

Sector / YTD 2021 / YTD 2022 / % Change
Dom: 486,179 / 1,686,269 / +246.8%
TB: 0 / 92,223 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 42,722 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 486,179 / 1,821,214 / +274.6% = 52.4% of 2019 YTD traffic levels

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Jul-21 / Aug-21 / % Change
Dom: 293,192 / 313,159 / +6.8%
TB: 13,328 / 15,691 / +17.7%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 306,520 / 328,850 / +7.3%
Avg/Day: 9,888 / 10,608 / +7.3% = 75.8% of August 2019 traffic levels

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2020
Dom: 2,344,040 / +127.1%
TB: 103,465 / -36.6%
Int'l: 58,319 / -65.4%
TTL: 2,505,824 / +83.8% - YOW is now on par with 1994 traffic levels

BenYOW Sep 21, 2022 4:08 PM

De Havilland Aircraft of Canada is set to announce a new 1,500 acre greenfield facility east of Calgary near Strathmore today ("De Havilland Field"), including:
  • A new aerodrome;
  • Corporate headquarters / head office;
  • Aircraft assembly facilities;
  • Parts manufacturing and distribution centres;
  • Maintenance and repair operations;
  • A training centre; and
  • De Havilland fleet museum.

Initial facilities are expected to open in 2025, with construction anticipated to begin in late 2023. Build-out is to occur over 10 to 15 years.
Calgary Herald

thenoflyzone Sep 21, 2022 8:06 PM

Imagine how high the land rent and user fees at YYC must have been for the company to decide to build their own airport in a field somewhere east of Calgary !

Airboy Sep 21, 2022 8:17 PM

Hell even Springbank lost out. But to move the Headquarters out of Calgary as well.

kwoldtimer Sep 21, 2022 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW (Post 9737129)
De Havilland Aircraft of Canada is set to announce a new 1,500 acre greenfield facility east of Calgary near Strathmore today ("De Havilland Field"), including:
  • A new aerodrome;
  • Corporate headquarters / head office;
  • Aircraft assembly facilities;
  • Parts manufacturing and distribution centres;
  • Maintenance and repair operations;
  • A training centre; and
  • De Havilland fleet museum.

Initial facilities are expected to open in 2025, with construction anticipated to begin in late 2023. Build-out is to occur over 10 to 15 years.
Calgary Herald

Nice!

Calfan12 Sep 21, 2022 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9736261)
Jazz keeps losing a lot of pilots to AC mainline, so much so, that AC will stop hiring pilots from Jazz come October. Don't know for how long, as AC has contractual obligations to hire a certain percentage of their pilots from Jazz every year. Might explain some of these cuts. This being said, some of these routes were marginal to begin with, so add in inflation and a recession looming, and it's no wonder they're being cut.

Yep & (AC) Air Canada has cut the Calgary YYC - Houston IAH flight route this upcoming winter too, which is on AC Jazz CRJ.

But YYC - IAH will still be operated by WestJet & United Airlines.


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