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Dominion301 Aug 2, 2022 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9691565)
^ Flights have been loaded for a few weeks now.

Someone on here was saying 2 weeks ago that there will be 6 carriers on YYZ-YWG.

I commented as well, saying all these new ULCCs put together only amounts to a 25% increase in flights on YYZ-YWG. So its not a huge increase, at least not yet.

In other news, AC still lost money in Q2, even though their revenues reached almost $4 billion in the quarter, which is 5x more than Q2 2021.

The most interesting bit of news today is that AC will acquire 2 factory built B777 freighters by 2024.

https://media.aircanada.com/Statemen...uarter-Results

I believe 6 is on the assumption Porter launches YYZ-YWG next year. Currently there’s AC, WS, F8, Lynx and soon WO.

nname Aug 2, 2022 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9691929)
I believe 6 is on the assumption Porter launches YYZ-YWG next year. Currently there’s AC, WS, F8, Lynx and soon WO.

Plus AU (Jetlines)

So there will be 4 ULCCs on the route.

Truenorth00 Aug 2, 2022 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9691929)
I believe 6 is on the assumption Porter launches YYZ-YWG next year. Currently there’s AC, WS, F8, Lynx and soon WO.

LOL. Six carriers on one route? This is how the new guys go bankrupt. Yields must be halfway to the Earth's core on this route.

I doubt Porter is dumb enough to pile on. But we'll see. Also, there sure are a lot of destinations that people are assuming Porter will fly to. But it takes time to take delivery of 50 frames and they are distributed between two hubs. Also, I'm assuming a business focused non-LCC airline is less interested in the ULCC 2-3x per week at a destination. I doubt they launch anything that isn't at least double daily.

casper Aug 2, 2022 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9692003)
LOL. Six carriers on one route? This is how the new guys go bankrupt. Yields must be halfway to the Earth's core on this route.

I doubt Porter is dumb enough to pile on. But we'll see. Also, there sure are a lot of destinations that people are assuming Porter will fly to. But it takes time to take delivery of 50 frames and they are distributed between two hubs. Also, I'm assuming a business focused non-LCC airline is less interested in the ULCC 2-3x per week at a destination. I doubt they launch anything that isn't at least double daily.

Central Canada (Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal) to Vancouver and Calgary make the most sense. Perhaps Miami.

thewave46 Aug 2, 2022 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9692003)
LOL. Six carriers on one route? This is how the new guys go bankrupt. Yields must be halfway to the Earth's core on this route.

I doubt Porter is dumb enough to pile on. But we'll see. Also, there sure are a lot of destinations that people are assuming Porter will fly to. But it takes time to take delivery of 50 frames and they are distributed between two hubs. Also, I'm assuming a business focused non-LCC airline is less interested in the ULCC 2-3x per week at a destination. I doubt they launch anything that isn't at least double daily.

Maybe Winnipeg is the next upcoming hot spot, who knows?

Palm Springs, eat your heart out.

nname Aug 2, 2022 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9692003)
LOL. Six carriers on one route? This is how the new guys go bankrupt. Yields must be halfway to the Earth's core on this route.

I doubt Porter is dumb enough to pile on. But we'll see.

There are actually quite a few 6-carrier routes in Canada, but I don't think there are any 7-carrier routes yet? PD will likely create the first one either way.

Current 6-carrier routes out of YVR
YVR-YYZ AC, WS, TS, WG, F8, Y9
YVR-YLW AC, WS, 4N, 9M, F8, Y9

I'm sure there are some more from YYZ or YUL.

YVR-LAX used to have 6-carriers, now there's only 4 left after AS and DL pulled out.

thenoflyzone Aug 3, 2022 12:36 AM

^ hmm.. I don’t think YUL has any 6 carrier routes. The only one that might have 6 is YUL-YQB, which has AC, TS, 3H, PB, P6 and possibly DU. Not sure DU still operates the route though. So it might only be 5.

If anyone is wondering what most of those airlines are, here’s a helping hand…

https://www.iata.org/en/publications...s/code-search/

Come to think of it, YUL-Toronto (YYZ/YTZ) has 5, and maybe 6, if WG sells seats on the flights it operates between the two. Not sure.

YUL-Paris, YYZ-London and YYZ-Dublin have 4 carriers though. That must be the most, as far as long haul destinations from Canada are concerned. The former route even had 5 carriers a few years ago, when Level operated ORY-YUL on top of the regular 4.

Djeffery Aug 3, 2022 1:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9692075)

Palm Springs, eat your heart out.

After Flair's recent announcement at YXU, I'm still wondering what the hell the draw of Tuscon is. I'm really curious how well that is selling so far.

nname Aug 3, 2022 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9692256)
^ hmm.. I don’t think YUL has any 6 carrier routes. The only one that might have 6 is YUL-YQB, which has AC, TS, 3H, PB, P6 and possibly DU. Not sure DU still operates the route though. So it might only be 5.

If anyone is wondering what most of those airlines are, here’s a helping hand…

https://www.iata.org/en/publications...s/code-search/

YUL-Paris, YYZ-London and YYZ-Dublin have 4 carriers though. That must be the most, as far as long haul destinations from Canada are concerned. The former route even had 5 carriers a few years ago, when Level operated ORY-YUL on top of the regular 4.

DU still operates, at least according to Google and Flightradar.

I consider different airport as different route when I made my previous post though, otherwise Toronto-New York would have more than 6, consider the combinations of YYZ/YTZ-JFK/EWR/LGA.

Denscity Aug 3, 2022 1:12 AM

Sun every day of the year?

nname Aug 3, 2022 1:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9692284)
After Flair's recent announcement at YXU, I'm still wondering what the hell the draw of Tuscon is. I'm really curious how well that is selling so far.

Maybe it's not about the draw, it's about the "only choice" because there is no draw. Maybe the requirement from Tucson is to "operate direct service to a Canadian city that have no or very limited sun routes". All the places F8 picked have no or at most 1x weekly service to CUN. YEG is obviously the exception so they can bring the plane south to run the routes.

Dominion301 Aug 4, 2022 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9691963)
Plus AU (Jetlines)

So there will be 4 ULCCs on the route.

Oh yeah I already wrote them off before their first RPM!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9692003)
LOL. Six carriers on one route? This is how the new guys go bankrupt. Yields must be halfway to the Earth's core on this route.

I doubt Porter is dumb enough to pile on. But we'll see. Also, there sure are a lot of destinations that people are assuming Porter will fly to. But it takes time to take delivery of 50 frames and they are distributed between two hubs. Also, I'm assuming a business focused non-LCC airline is less interested in the ULCC 2-3x per week at a destination. I doubt they launch anything that isn't at least double daily.

Depends what it is. Some routes will work daily just fine for Porter. Some leisure jet routes (think NAS, PBI, etc.) will probably be far less than daily. But yeah they won't be doing anything like YYZ-YWG less than 2x. I doubt YYZ-YWG will be in their initial batch of routes.

Dominion301 Aug 4, 2022 2:45 AM

Hot on the heels of WS ground staff ratifying at YYC and YVR, Unifor are now the bargaining agent for WS's YYZ ground crew.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...839842607.html

Quote:

Unifor represents 7,500 airport agents at other airlines, including Air Canada, Jazz, Porter, First Air, Calm Air and more. In all, Unifor represents more than 16,000 workers across the airline industry.
Someone's forgotten to update First Air to Canadian North. The merger was completed a while ago now.

Calfan12 Aug 4, 2022 2:46 AM

It looks like from November 14- December 11 2022, British Airways is reducing London LHR- Vancouver YVR flights from 7 to 4x weekly.

British Airways in the last few days extended London Heathrow – Vancouver service reductions, scheduled in the fourth quarter of 2022. Previously scheduled from 14NOV22 to 27NOV22, service reduction from 7 to 4 weekly is now extended to 11DEC22. New 4-class 777-300ER aircraft is scheduled in November and December 2022.

14NOV22 – 27NOV22 Day x246
29NOV22 – 11DEC22 Day x135

BA085 LHR1710 – 1900YVR 77W
BA084 YVR2105 – 1435+1LHR 77W

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220803-ba4q22yvr

Not too surprising as Winter season Canada - London UK & Europe flights are usually less busier & see some frequency reductions every year.

Calfan12 Aug 4, 2022 8:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9691265)
That Finnair frame was operating MUC-YUL until yesterday. LH mainline takes over the route today.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oh-lwc

Yep & it looks like from September 12 - October 29 2022, the Eurowings (seasonal) Frankfurt FRA- Calgary YYC flights is 3x weekly on Monday, Thursday & Saturday,with the Finnair Airbus A350 plane ✈️ operating it still.

Although it’s 4x weekly from August 1-September 10.
____________________________________________

Also looks like Eurowings has extended the (seasonal) Frankfurt FRA – Halifax YHZ 2 weekly flights to until September 29 too & with Airbus A330 operating it.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220804-ewns22ca

Djeffery Aug 4, 2022 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9692299)
Maybe it's not about the draw, it's about the "only choice" because there is no draw. Maybe the requirement from Tucson is to "operate direct service to a Canadian city that have no or very limited sun routes". All the places F8 picked have no or at most 1x weekly service to CUN. YEG is obviously the exception so they can bring the plane south to run the routes.

London is 2 hour drive from 2 major airports and a couple smaller airports with decent sun options. In all the social media about this, I didn't see any evidence of people saying "yay, Tuscon, I've been waiting for this". More like "where the hell is Tuscon?" You look at Tuscon on Google Earth and you might as well be looking at Iraq, except Iraq at least has water around it. We aren't sun-deprived prisoners here, I doubt a lot of people are going to Tuscon simply because they are the only choice. Which they aren't given all the Caribbean options we get every winter. The people going to Tuscon are going because of the cheap intro fares. After those are sold out, I think sales are going to be pretty soft for Flair. And there will be zero demand from the other end to come here.

thewave46 Aug 4, 2022 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9693986)
London is 2 hour drive from 2 major airports and a couple smaller airports with decent sun options. In all the social media about this, I didn't see any evidence of people saying "yay, Tuscon, I've been waiting for this". More like "where the hell is Tuscon?" You look at Tuscon on Google Earth and you might as well be looking at Iraq, except Iraq at least has water around it. We aren't sun-deprived prisoners here, I doubt a lot of people are going to Tuscon simply because they are the only choice. Which they aren't given all the Caribbean options we get every winter. The people going to Tuscon are going because of the cheap intro fares. After those are sold out, I think sales are going to be pretty soft for Flair. And there will be zero demand from the other end to come here.

The Pima Air and Space Museum is pretty cool, as is Davis-Monthan AFB.

I could see it being a cheaper Sunbird destination, given that Phoenix is getting pricier.

That being said, I do question how long the route lasts but Flair has continued to surprise me.

casper Aug 4, 2022 7:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9693986)
London is 2 hour drive from 2 major airports and a couple smaller airports with decent sun options. In all the social media about this, I didn't see any evidence of people saying "yay, Tuscon, I've been waiting for this". More like "where the hell is Tuscon?" You look at Tuscon on Google Earth and you might as well be looking at Iraq, except Iraq at least has water around it. We aren't sun-deprived prisoners here, I doubt a lot of people are going to Tuscon simply because they are the only choice. Which they aren't given all the Caribbean options we get every winter. The people going to Tuscon are going because of the cheap intro fares. After those are sold out, I think sales are going to be pretty soft for Flair. And there will be zero demand from the other end to come here.

I would rather go to Reno than Tuscon. That is saying a lot, Reno use to have wide body service with Canadian Pacific and now there is not a Canadian airline flying there.

kwoldtimer Aug 4, 2022 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9693986)
London is 2 hour drive from 2 major airports and a couple smaller airports with decent sun options. In all the social media about this, I didn't see any evidence of people saying "yay, Tuscon, I've been waiting for this". More like "where the hell is Tuscon?" You look at Tuscon on Google Earth and you might as well be looking at Iraq, except Iraq at least has water around it. We aren't sun-deprived prisoners here, I doubt a lot of people are going to Tuscon simply because they are the only choice. Which they aren't given all the Caribbean options we get every winter. The people going to Tuscon are going because of the cheap intro fares. After those are sold out, I think sales are going to be pretty soft for Flair. And there will be zero demand from the other end to come here.

I always thought of Tucson as being a golf destination.

JHikka Aug 4, 2022 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 9694138)
I always thought of Tucson as being a golf destination.

That was my immediate reaction. I've always been under the impression that snowbirds in AZ were just as common as snowbirds in FL, but that AZ leaned much more towards golfing.


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