SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

TorontoDrew Dec 29, 2014 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losername (Post 6858303)
What, will all those bags that make riding the Canada Line so cumbersome for you? Surely hopping on any of the dwnt streetcar lines with those bags would be much easier no? or walking 6-10 blocks with them.

No I'll just cab it thanks. Can't wait for my $27 ride to Pearson without the crowds. Mind you I can take the 72A which is almost always empty with my suitcase. I could give a rats ass about how cumbersome my bags are I just don't want to take up space that is meant to be shared with daily rush hour commuters.

1overcosc Dec 30, 2014 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 6858430)
In order to understand why some Torontonians are very defensive of the fares, you have to understand the context.

For years, the fare of the Union Pearson Express was not revealed and many speculated - from offhand remarks - that it would be exorbitant; somewhere north of $30. The original proposal was called "Blue 22" because it was supposed to take 22 minutes and cost $22. That was over ten years ago, so people basically thought that that was the lowest the price could ever be and, because of inflation, it was almost certainly more.

Much to the surprise of many, the prices were revealed this past month to be quite reasonable: $19 if you have a Smart Card (which is an incentive to ride more public transit when you get to your destination), $10 for airport workers. Even the $27 fare for people who don't buy and use a Smart Card is somewhat reasonable for your average business traveler.

Despite this revelation, a lot of Torontonians still took to newspaper message boards to moan about how this was some sort of luxury service and how the prices were unreasonable because they weren't the same as basic public transit, etc. It grew very tiresome. Lost in all this rhetoric was a realization that the upgraded rail corridor won't just be used by the airport rail link, but is necessary for future public transit improvements along the corridor. Also lost in all the mud-slinging was the fact that the existing public transit connections to the airport aren't getting axed; in fact, they are getting upgraded (the TTC bus will get a new branding, its own line on the subway map, and luggage racks). Finally, as Caltrane mentioned, the price isn't set in stone. If it isn't profitable, the private company that runs this service can always lower the fare or tinker with incentives. Suggesting that the service will be of limited use because people with bags still have to get to their final destination is a moot point. No train will do that for you. That hasn't prevented rail links in other cities from being profitable and well used.

This isn't a case of Torontonians slavishly defending a project because it happens to be in Toronto. In fact, many of the forumers who are defending this project were harshly critical of the price of UPx up until 3 weeks ago when the actual fares were revealed. In light of this, I think most of the Toronto forumers here are actually being quite rational about this.

Agreed, but you're wrong on the bolded point. UPX isn't run by a private company it's run by Metrolinx which is a crown agency of the Ontario government.

big W Jan 5, 2015 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 6857734)
A top executive like yourself (or Whippersnapper) at First Canadian Place would know that all the big bank towers are across the street from Union Station. FCP is a 2 or 3 min walk and a 1 minute cab ride in traffic with a 4 dollar fair plus tip. If you work in the bank towers or have meetings there burning 5 or 6 bux on cab fair for a 1/2 minute ride is par for the course I guess. I wouldn't know I've never worked in a one of those towers except for a brief stint doing some business development for investment bank at Brookfield place which is right across the street from Union Station and also connected via underground tunnels. The UPX was created for guys like you high flyers of finance, when you get to Union Station there is no where else to go, you are 1 minute walking from King and Bay the heart of Canada's Banking, Finance, Investment, Accounting and Legal Community.

It all depends on where your meeting is in Toronto to see if it is useful. When I fly into Toronto for work I usually take a rental as many times my meetings can be in a couple different areas (North York, Mississauga or Downtown) and I am fairly familiar with where I need to go. So even if I only need to be downtown, I still just take the rental and go as its what I am used to doing. Plus when I go it is usually for 2 or 3 days so I end up visiting with friends or family and drive afterwards which helps.

Finally those talking about expenses, it is not something anyone cares about. A flight from Edmonton to Toronto for example is $600 and a hotel room $200 and then you have food expenses. Heck last time I stayed at the Royal York for $350 a night. Do you think they will care internally or the client if a rental (which requires valet or parking fees downtown), a cab or whatever means of travel I did for business will make a large difference as you would be arguing about less than the cost of a dinner.

big W Jan 5, 2015 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 6857818)
Well wouldn't that be the case for any business traveller going to any city? I doubt they will care about cab fare. Some of these comments are just silly.

100% correct. The cost of cab fare is basically the last thing on their minds. The extra $30 on cab fare means nothing. If I save 20 mins to a client by taking the cab vs walking at a bill rate of $450 an hour, it actually becomes cheaper for the client (spend $30 more on the cab but save $150 in consultant hourly fees)and I save time for myself, even if it is just time to sit back and sip a coffee which is a double bonus.

WhipperSnapper Jan 5, 2015 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse (Post 6858199)
No one's on a high horse; some of you are just being irrational in the way you're reacting to someone because they're saying something you'd rather not hear. He never made any claims about the travel patterns of anyone else but himself - it was other people like yourself who fancy themselves as mind readers regarding the larger business traveling public. But it's always possible to be wrong when it comes to speculating about third parties. Yet he's an actual out-of-towner who visits for business so regardless of how similar or different he is from other such people, you have the perspective of one such person at your disposal.


Belated reply ...

But, he did in fact did make the claim that "only Torontonians would walk". You are drawing ridiculous conclusions that he is much more informed as one person visiting with meetings outside the core to a local that not only has been a visitor to other cities but, most importantly, has hosted meetings to many coming to Toronto for the day including the aforementioned oil reps from Houston. More than a few have mentioned taking the Billy Bishop shuttle which stops outside Union and walked the two or so blocks even just to get some air and see some Toronto in their limited time. I repeat. Get off your high horse. Torontonians are far from as insular as you think. Most of us are fully aware we pay as close to the real costs of public transportation through fares. Comparable to other places with deep subsidies don't apply.

1overcosc Jan 6, 2015 2:50 PM

I would love to see UPX ridership stats that break down who takes it, after its been up and running for a while.

I'm curious how the split will be between:
-Out-of-towners flying in & using UPX to get downtown
-Torontionians using it to get the airport
-Southern Ontarians using it to make a VIA-to-flight connection from their home cities

As for the third category, I can assure anyone skeptical that UPX will see a healthy share of the Kingston->Pearson Airport travel demand. Nobody in Kingston flies to Toronto unless they're filthy rich or expensing the trip as Air Canada typically adds over $500 to a flight if a Kingston leg is added. Driving is a pain because of Toronto traffic and parking costs a fortune. Plus much of the Kingston->Pearson Airport demand is driven by Queen's University's large number of international & out-of-province students who need to get to and from their home cities at Christmas & the beginning and end of the school year.. and these are people who don't have cars in Kingston.

DDP Jan 6, 2015 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 6864970)
I would love to see UPX ridership stats that break down who takes it, after its been up and running for a while.

I'm curious how the split will be between:
-Out-of-towners flying in & using UPX to get downtown
-Torontionians using it to get the airport
-Southern Ontarians using it to make a VIA-to-flight connection from their home cities

As for the third category, I can assure anyone skeptical that UPX will see a healthy share of the Kingston->Pearson Airport travel demand. Nobody in Kingston flies to Toronto unless they're filthy rich or expensing the trip as Air Canada typically adds over $500 to a flight if a Kingston leg is added. Driving is a pain because of Toronto traffic and parking costs a fortune. Plus much of the Kingston->Pearson Airport demand is driven by Queen's University's large number of international & out-of-province students who need to get to and from their home cities at Christmas & the beginning and end of the school year.. and these are people who don't have cars in Kingston.

You won't g much of that, government doesn't really collect that data and who wants to show ID when doing a quick train hop. What will probably come out is presto vs non presto and how much is being bought at each station.

Also looks like Air China has announced a PEK-YUL-HAV flight, this should probably fall into the joint venture with Air Canada but I can look that up when I have time at work. So third city now has direct access to China, I know AC was looking to announce from YYC this winter or spring but with oil down who knows if it holds.

Dwils01 Jan 13, 2015 2:04 AM

The Sault Ste. Marie airport saw an increase of 4.4% in passengers in 2014 from 2013 at 195,080. Much of this is because of the Porter Airlines flights to Toronto.

http://www.sootoday.com/content/news...ls.asp?c=85036

SkahHigh Jan 14, 2015 4:09 PM

According to this, Hainan Airlines AND Air China will be operating routes to Beijing from YUL... Hainan starting on June 1st and Air China on September 28

http://www.anna.aero/2015/01/09/cana...9ca04-86634934

Delirium Jan 15, 2015 7:17 PM

$213-million Vancouver International Airport terminal expansion officially opens

After nearly two years of construction, Vancouver International Airport’s $213-million A-B Connector at the southern end of the domestic terminal building officially opened on Tuesday.

The 296,000 square foot terminal building expansion provides improved passenger flow, increased gate capacity and holdroom space, new security and safety enhancements, seismic upgrades, and a more comfortable and efficient experience with new amenities, shopping and food options.

This includes ten new retail offerings such as Marshall Rousso, Tumi, Lick (candy store), Vino Volo, Famous Famiglia, Green Bean Café and Carl’s Jr. to bring YVR’s total number of retail offerings to over 170. There is also a 7,166 square foot Plaza Premium Lounge, the largest pay-per-use lounge in North America.

A new high-speed baggage system also serves the AB Connector to drastically increase the speed bags move between the domestic and international areas of the terminal.

When it comes to architecture and interior design, the terminal expansion is a consistent continuation of the same West Coast “sense of place” that the rest of the terminal is known for. A four storey tall art piece, “The Rivers Monument” by local First Nations artist Marianne Nicolson, is the centrepiece of the expansion’s largest open public area.

http://assets.vancitybuzz.com/wp-con...492.png?f91710
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/01/2...icially-opens/

http://assets.vancitybuzz.com/wp-con...r-1.png?f91710
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/01/2...icially-opens/

http://assets.vancitybuzz.com/wp-con...r-5.png?f91710
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/01/2...icially-opens/

Airboy Jan 15, 2015 8:34 PM

Nice I will get to see this at YVR next Thursday.

ACT7 Jan 15, 2015 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 6874187)
According to this, Hainan Airlines AND Air China will be operating routes to Beijing from YUL... Hainan starting on June 1st and Air China on September 28

http://www.anna.aero/2015/01/09/cana...9ca04-86634934

Can't see that lasting unfortunately. Especially with the proposed Havana tag-on from Air China. There just isn't the Chinese tourism or population in Montreal to support two flights to PEK in my opinion.

SkahHigh Jan 15, 2015 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7 (Post 6876552)
Can't see that lasting unfortunately. Especially with the proposed Havana tag-on from Air China. There just isn't the Chinese tourism or population in Montreal to support two flights to PEK in my opinion.

Yeah I learned there can only be one airline per route, and it'll probably be Air China for YUL.

SpongeG Jan 15, 2015 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airboy (Post 6876352)
Nice I will get to see this at YVR next Thursday.

if you're flying westjet - air canada uses the other gates c-d

Dirt_Devil Jan 16, 2015 7:06 PM

Victoria and Kelowna's 2014 final passenger statistics are available already.

City/2013/2014/%

Victoria/1 556 960/1 650 165/+6%
Kelowna/1 503 288/1 602 899/ +6,6%

http://www.victoriaairport.com/pdfs/...ssengers_2.pdf
http://www.kelowna.ca/CM/Page182.aspx

Great numbers for both of them after many years of slow/moderate growth :tup:

craneSpotter Jan 16, 2015 7:10 PM

Can't wait to check out YVR's A-B connector. Looks very nice.

YYJ (Victoria International) had a good year... PAX traffic up 6.0% yoy to 1.65 million.

Edit: Posted this before I saw post above ;) Yay Kelowna too!

craneSpotter Jan 16, 2015 7:23 PM

It will be interesting to see if YMM passed YQR this year. Although I think growth in YMM this year will be flat, possibly negative.

YMM - 2014 total pax 1,310,196 (+9.6%)

http://www.flyymm.com/media/facts-and-stats

Dirt_Devil Jan 17, 2015 1:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 6877785)
It will be interesting to see if YMM passed YQR this year. Although I think growth in YMM this year will be flat, possibly negative.

YMM - 2014 total pax 1,310,196 (+9.6%)

http://www.flyymm.com/media/facts-and-stats


Strong growth for Fort Mac in 2014. Anyone knows how Regina Intl' performed in 2014?

As you said, I can see YMM stagnating this year depending on we know what. They got a shiny new terminal which looks very nice btw.

Denscity Jan 17, 2015 2:56 AM

YCG Castlegar is up 11% over last year. Mostly due to less weather cancellations I'm sure. Still huge growth.

Airboy Jan 17, 2015 3:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirt_Devil (Post 6878288)
Strong growth for Fort Mac in 2014. Anyone knows how Regina Intl' performed in 2014?

As you said, I can see YMM stagnating this year depending on we know what. They got a shiny new terminal which looks very nice btw.

If the Shell Aerodrome 100km north is included in the numbers then we will see a significant drop. One day I few in there, there were 6 373s and a Dash 8. I was told most flights make a couple of trips a day from YEG and YYC. The schedule flights with AC and WS may not see a large drop.


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.