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thenoflyzone Oct 26, 2022 4:09 PM

Link to full CCB report:

https://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/...4690.html#toc7

hehehe Oct 26, 2022 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9772187)
This explains why YOW-YHZ on WS mainline is coming back next summer. To feed GLA & DUB. LGW though is gone. YYC-LGW says 'resumes April 29', but YHZ-LGW does not. YVR-LGW is still loaded for summer 2023 at this point. YYZ-LGW says it's resuming in late April 2023, but you currently cannot select any dates for it. So either it's going MAX or is also gone.

I think they're getting close to loading the S23 schedule if they're making these changes right now? Because the YHZ-GLA/DUB didn't show anything on the WestJet booking portal earlier.

LO 044 Oct 26, 2022 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9772304)
What about Vegas? Phoenix? California? Mexico? Hawaii?

Yes some of these are available but many are through connections at YYC and YVR and at high prices. You can can get to any of the places you mentioned through eastern hubs whether Canadian or American. I just think it's cool you can fly to New York or Boston or hell Cleveland for a weekend to watch a Browns game if you wanted to. All this is available from the East through YUL or YYZ or US hubs with many competing airlines and competitive airfares. You wouldn't believe how much AC and WS funnel you from the west through YUL or YYZ to get to Mexico lol.

whatnext Oct 26, 2022 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9770625)
Flair's first 24 months after New Leaf were definitely a joke, but there's now nothing unconventional about what they're doing. It's a page right outta Wizz Air...no surprise given they have ex-Wizzers, including their CEO. Obviously we don't have the population to have an ULCC with 300 aircraft, but an airline with 50 aircraft is certainly realistic.

Yes the Deluce family have made some brilliant moves to ensure solvency and were pretty much debt-free save for the financing on their 3 newest Dash 8s. They're about to enter the big leagues...but at least they maintain the near-monopoly at YTZ to help shield them a bit.

With Porter NG, Flair, Lynx, WS & flanker brand + waiting with bated breath for the Sunwing takeover blessing, oh plus Jokelines, get the popcorn ready for the show. First time since the mid-80s it's been this interesting in Canadian aviation.

Oops, looks like the Deluces are going to have to pay some of that money back:

Porter Airlines ordered to pay $130-million to operator of Toronto’s island airport terminal for non-payment of fees during pandemic
ERIC ATKINS TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
PUBLISHED 2 HOURS AGO

A judge has ordered Porter Airlines and a related leasing company to pay $130-million in damages to the owner of the passenger terminal at Toronto’s island airport, Nieuport Aviation Infrastructures Partners LP, for refusing to pay fees during and prior to the pandemic shutdown.

The ruling from Justice Peter Cavanagh of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice comes two years after Porter and Nieuport sued each other over the airline’s move to relinquish airplane slots and withhold gate fees. Porter, the main airline at the airport near downtown Toronto, said the COVID-19 pandemic triggered a force majeure or major event that contractually allowed it to cease payments. Nieuport disagreed, and countersued.

In a decision dated Oct. 19, Judge Cavanagh sided with Nieuport, awarding breach-of-contract damages....


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...t-pay-damages/

hehehe Oct 26, 2022 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9772187)
This explains why YOW-YHZ on WS mainline is coming back next summer. To feed GLA & DUB. LGW though is gone. YYC-LGW says 'resumes April 29', but YHZ-LGW does not. YVR-LGW is still loaded for summer 2023 at this point. YYZ-LGW says it's resuming in late April 2023, but you currently cannot select any dates for it. So either it's going MAX or is also gone.

By the way they removed bookings for YHZ-YOW next summer.

Dominion301 Oct 27, 2022 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9772614)
Yes some of these are available but many are through connections at YYC and YVR and at high prices. You can can get to any of the places you mentioned through eastern hubs whether Canadian or American. I just think it's cool you can fly to New York or Boston or hell Cleveland for a weekend to watch a Browns game if you wanted to. All this is available from the East through YUL or YYZ or US hubs with many competing airlines and competitive airfares. You wouldn't believe how much AC and WS funnel you from the west through YUL or YYZ to get to Mexico lol.

AC are bringing back YEG-CUN this winter for the first time in over 10 years.

To answer your question from the previous page, yes the Competition Bureau (just like the TSB) can only make recommendations to the approving Minister regarding mergers. But unlike the TSB, they can fine companies/pursue legal action against them for anti-competitive behaviour though under the Competition Act.

JakeLRS Oct 27, 2022 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9773120)
AC are bringing back YEG-CUN this winter for the first time in over 10 years.

To answer your question from the previous page, yes the Competition Bureau (just like the TSB) can only make recommendations to the approving Minister regarding mergers. But unlike the TSB, they can fine companies/pursue legal action against them for anti-competitive behaviour though under the Competition Act.

I don’t they they ever ended up making a decision on flairs dispute on Swoops predatory pricing on some of their routes.

kwoldtimer Oct 27, 2022 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9774023)
I don’t they they ever ended up making a decision on flairs dispute on Swoops predatory pricing on some of their routes.

I think the investigation is still open.

thenoflyzone Oct 29, 2022 10:36 PM

Arajet is a Dominican Republic based ULCC that commenced ops last month. They have identified YYZ and YUL as potential destinations on their website.

https://www.arajet.com/en/destinations

Last month, they also applied to the CTA and were granted rights for scheduled and non-scheduled service to Canada.

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2022-121

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2022-120

They are based out of Santo Domingo and plan to operate a fleet of around 30 737 Max's, 20 of which will be the Max 200, basically a Max 8 certified for up to 200 passengers. (Ryanair has them).

nname Oct 30, 2022 4:53 AM

Just checked AC W23 schedule (Nov 2023 and Mar 2024), looks like a few notable long-hual changes:

YYZ-DOH is no longer in the schedule

YHZ-LHR moved to AC900, which makes room for potentially new LHR flights using the 868 number. I guess the 9xx series means "TATL flights that can be run by a narrow-body"?

YYZ-BRU winter frequency is 4x weekly, YUL-TLS is 3x weekly

FLL flights will now take the first 30 numbers in the 10xx series.

Of course, this is just the first version of schedule when it become available since AC will publish schedule exactly 1 year ahead of time (transition to W22 this weekend means W23 will also be published). Things will definitely change...

thenoflyzone Oct 30, 2022 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9776135)

YHZ-LHR moved to AC900, which makes room for potentially new LHR flights using the 868 number. I guess the 9xx series means "TATL flights that can be run by a narrow-body"?

Or maybe YYZ-MAN will take up the 868 slot.

It's showing as AC908 next summer and is operated by A333. Would make sense to bunch up LHR/MAN around the same codes. That's what they've been doing I think.

nname Oct 30, 2022 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9776313)
Or maybe YYZ-MAN will take up the 868 slot.

It's showing as AC908 next summer and is operated by A333. Would make sense to bunch up LHR/MAN around the same codes. That's what they've been doing I think.

I'm thinking either they want to restart YOW-LHR taking the 868, and/or YYT-LHR taking the 902.

Or maybe they are increasing CDG from YYZ/YUL, or trying from YVR again and take the 868? Or simply want to group all the French flights together and move YUL-NCE to 868...

As for MAN, I think it's more likely for EDI to move to the 900s than MAN move back to 800s. Both routes will likely be run by XLR once they're available in 2024... Maybe AC will start YVR-MAN using the XLR one day and take the 906 number, since TS already abandoned it :D

thewave46 Oct 30, 2022 10:05 PM

Any idea if the YYZ - LHR morning flight will come back? Old AC868?

I get that one burns the day for travel and aircraft utilization stinks, but not doing the red-eye thing is just more pleasant. I can’t sleep on airplanes.

Get up in Canada very early, hit Pearson early, across the pond, into Heathrow late-ish, hit the Tube and enjoy a bit of the city before a late night snooze on an actual horizontal surface.

casper Oct 30, 2022 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9776493)
Any idea if the YYZ - LHR morning flight will come back? Old AC868?

I get that one burns the day for travel and aircraft utilization stinks, but not doing the red-eye thing is just more pleasant. I can’t sleep on airplanes.

Get up in Canada very early, hit Pearson early, across the pond, into Heathrow late-ish, hit the Tube and enjoy a bit of the city before a late night snooze on an actual horizontal surface.

Are we not hitting the point where AC needs to start using all their slots at Heathrow or risk losing them?

hollywoodcory Oct 30, 2022 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9776498)
Are we not hitting the point where AC needs to start using all their slots at Heathrow or risk losing them?

They've been operating the daytime flight from YHZ the last few months. Also I believe AC is using most of their LHR slots?

casper Oct 31, 2022 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9776514)
They've been operating the daytime flight from YHZ the last few months. Also I believe AC is using most of their LHR slots?

Pre-COVID there were two flights from Atlantic Canada, plus the daytime flight was being used by Toronto.

Not certain how many they had between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

Out west there were always three slots that worked with the time zones out here. One was always used by Calgary and one by Vancouver. The third slot hopped around a bit. Some years being used for an Edmonton flight, other years a Calgary or Vancouver flight. More recently it settled in to being the second daily Vancouver flight.

hehehe Oct 31, 2022 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9776554)
Pre-COVID there were two flights from Atlantic Canada, plus the daytime flight was being used by Toronto.

Not certain how many they had between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

Out west there were always three slots that worked with the time zones out here. One was always used by Calgary and one by Vancouver. The third slot hopped around a bit. Some years being used for an Edmonton flight, other years a Calgary or Vancouver flight. More recently it settled in to being the second daily Vancouver flight.

Do you think YYT-LHR could come back? Sucks for YYT that they used to have DUB and LHR and now have nothing.

casper Oct 31, 2022 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9776556)
Do you think YYT-LHR could come back? Sucks for YYT that they used to have DUB and LHR and now have nothing.

Perhaps on a MAX or slots moved over to a another location.

I would be surprised if AC just gave up the associated slots at Heathrow.

ScreamingViking Oct 31, 2022 1:28 AM

Just took a trip to Lisbon, via Air Canada.

The flights themselves were fine (we had to wait a bit longer for the aircraft to arrive at Pearson on the outbound leg of the trip... apparently a replacement had to be brought in, no explanation as to why except that the original plane was late). But the food flying from Toronto :yuck:, it was HORRIBLE. Bland, un-edible unless you were starving, we tried it but most was trash. LIS to YYZ was much better; had flavour, and was somewhat enjoyable for what it was. Better wines too.

Thoughts? Are European food service providers that much better? Or are Canadian ones just that awful?

Dominion301 Oct 31, 2022 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9776336)
I'm thinking either they want to restart YOW-LHR taking the 868, and/or YYT-LHR taking the 902.

Or maybe they are increasing CDG from YYZ/YUL, or trying from YVR again and take the 868? Or simply want to group all the French flights together and move YUL-NCE to 868...

As for MAN, I think it's more likely for EDI to move to the 900s than MAN move back to 800s. Both routes will likely be run by XLR once they're available in 2024... Maybe AC will start YVR-MAN using the XLR one day and take the 906 number, since TS already abandoned it :D

Given it's not coming back until at least 2024, I have a feeling YOW-LHR won't be back until the XLRs start to arrive. AC for now haven't used YOW-LHR's traditional 888 flight number. They did assign 838, the former YOW-FRA to YVR-FRA....which I think is a metal swap with LH? LH were going to take over YOW-FRA in 2020. YOW is the airport that can never catch a break.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9776556)
Do you think YYT-LHR could come back? Sucks for YYT that they used to have DUB and LHR and now have nothing.

It's certainly the least likely. YOW also has nothing with 8 times the population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9776498)
Are we not hitting the point where AC needs to start using all their slots at Heathrow or risk losing them?

80% utilization is the rule, so if they have 1 unused, they're still well over 80%. They also have a couple leased out. I think one is short-term to a European LCC, while the 2nd is probably long-term to UA for their BOS-LHR flight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9776554)
Pre-COVID there were two flights from Atlantic Canada, plus the daytime flight was being used by Toronto.

Not certain how many they had between Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal.

Out west there were always three slots that worked with the time zones out here. One was always used by Calgary and one by Vancouver. The third slot hopped around a bit. Some years being used for an Edmonton flight, other years a Calgary or Vancouver flight. More recently it settled in to being the second daily Vancouver flight.

Doesn't really matter which way you slice it, but the YOW slot shifted to YUL for the 2nd daily there. The daytime YYZ slot has shifted to YHZ until at least the end of summer 2023. YYZ seems to be getting the YYT slot for next summer for the 4th daily evening YYZ rotation. That would leave YOW's slot as the lease to the Euro LCC. For YYT to come back, AC would have to take back the leased UA slot.


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