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The whole idea that we don't want to bring in unskilled labor is ridiculous and shows how much people misunderstand economics. This country was largely built on the backs of immigrants, and this city has been as well. I'm sorry to call b.s. on people who don't think cheap labor is a good thing, but it is. What people are really angry about is the welfare system, they hate the idea of someone being paid to sit at home. The sad thing is, its poor Americans who sit at home and collect welfare, much more so than immigrants. The last paper I saw that studied the subject found that males over 18 years old who were citizens were employed about 83% of the time (this was a 2004 paper so that numbers would be different). I believe the rate of employment for immigrants who are here legally was 89% and for those here illegally it was 91%. Also, when immigrants have access to services, they access them at a lower rate than Americans do. I think they had those jobs because they worked, and unfortunately too many Americans don't
Crime rate is another false assumption. For adults without a high school education, Americans were committing crimes at a rate almost five times the rate of illegal immigrants. I have never found a single scientifically conducted study that concluded that illegal immigrants committed crimes at a higher rate than Americans in the same demographic. I can give you the link to anyone who wishes to read them. I find America's current immigration laws insulting to our heritage and a sad sign of American greed. They are designed to keep out the poor who wish to work their way up in the world. My great-grandfather was an immigrant, he worked as a cook and was poor, but he was given a chance. His sons fought in WWII, and my father was given the opportunity to go to college and to be well off, and so was I. Other immigrant groups were not always popular, but we gave them a chance. Those who were minorities suffered more than others from racism and xenophobia. Now we write laws to prevent people from having the same opportunities many of our ancestors had, the opportunities that gave us the successes many of us have today. As a culture we quietly accept the cheap labor they provide, then gullibly allow them to be scapegoated when it's no longer convenient for us. Too many Americans stand on their high horse saying "illegal is illegal." It's illegal because we have laws that make it illegal to access the opportunities that many of us now benefit from. For years we didn't care because we liked the poor, cheap labor, and now we have this selfish view that we can just change our minds. Leaving the border wide open is not a valid solution for many reasons. But I don't accept that poor immigrants no longer have a place to be welcomed in this country. Anyone who hides behind the lies that are perpetuated about immigrants, or believes that the well off and educated should be welcomed and the poor denied, I think is selfish and a coward. If that's the America that the people of this country want then I want no part of it. |
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When you'd like to have a discussion at the adult table, let us know. Otherwise its best to zip it. |
as the population grows, the economy will inevitably grow as well, but this doesn't tell the whole story. the more important statistic is gdp per capita aka the standard of living. i dont see how low skilled immigrants make the per capita gdp higher, in fact everything points to the contrary. and as we already have 300 million people (enough to defend ourselves and have global power), and 10 percent unemployment, i see no real reason to continue immigration at all at the moment, including for people in the high tech industry.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14972466 |
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In response to DowntownDweller, you miss the whole point of why I said that. I'm not saying flippantly saying I wish to abandon my country, nor am I literally saying so. Maybe I could have been more specific in my response, but my post was getting long enough as it was. I believe that what makes this country great are the ideas that America was founded upon. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men were created equal." Not just Americans, or wealthy people, or smart people, all people. This is an idea that we as a country have struggled with since our inception. At times we have failed but in the long run I believe we have done what is right. I hope that we continue to struggle with this idea. It has allowed America to do great things, to be a great country that people will risk their lives to come to. But if, as I said before, we now only wish to be a country who welcomes the privileged few, and shut out those we who already have so much decide we don't want, then I think one of the great ideas that America was founded upon is dead. That is what I want no part of. I've worked with poor families and kids since I moved to this city, as a teacher and in ministry. I know a lot of them are undocumented even though they don't say it. I watch them work hard to get an education, I've seen kids as young as 13 who work to help support their family. I've seen them volunteer their time and resources to their community. There are parents who work like dogs and live in ghettos to give their kids a chance. It's not everyone I meet, but it's a lot of them. They are more American than a lot of "Americans" I know. A lot of people make these same people out to be criminals on par with rapists and murderers, even if they were carried across before they were old enough to remember, because they crossed the border. We can handle this problem fairly, and we can move forward with an immigration policy that protects and honors what America is about. I hope everyone can look at the big picture and not see this as a black and white issue, but recognize there are a lot of things that brought us to this point. There is room for blame on all sides. Some people can call me a bleeding heart, but I did my best to research the issue with an open mind and come to my own conclusion. What too often gets spewed from self-serving politicians is rhetoric at best and lies at worst. I'll concede there are negative impacts from people crossing the border illegally, and I think there's a responsible way for people to pay for those crimes. Respectfully, I hope anyone who has an opinion on this issue will take the time to investigate why they hold the views they hold and be willing to at least concede that each side has valid points. |
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The issue isn't about immigration, (and it is definitely not about race, don't be played) it is about undocumented peoples migrating into the US at anytime and the problems, social issues that arise from it. And yes I do believe that 99% of the migrants good hard working people willing to risk their lives to escape from terrible conditions back home or come here to a strange foreign land just to make a living. Immigration is great, after all, every human being has migrated here, (including the Indians/Native Americans). It is the arrival of anybody from anywhere with no way to track it where the problem arises. If the new migrants have no documents, then they'll never be able to attain a good high paying job. They will continue to live in the shadows, afraid to contact the police, organized crime (protection fees, extortion, money laundering schemes), working low wage jobs, living in ghettos, paying off Coytote fees, possibly taking up second "jobs" that may or may not include illegal activities just to make ends meet. Many Hispanic/Latinos actually support enforcement of immigration laws. How are they to move up and advance in society if many of their people cannot attain good jobs and nobody even knows who they are or who is here. For the betterment of their people, their cause, their political pull, it is in their interest for immigration reform and border security. This is not a racial issue, despite the attempts of the opposition to turn at least half the population against the other half. The law wasn't created because the state legislature hates "brown" people (last time I checked, latino isn't a race). As for the racial profiling claims, if one has been stopped for a crime and they don't have ID, can't speak English, cannot produce SSN, then they should probably be detained until we do find out who they are (post 9/11 reality), this has nothing to do with race, but lets not be ignorant that AZ straddles an international border so many of the arrests will be people from S. of the border and not undocumented Australians. If the Feds would enforce the laws already written, then none of this would have occurred. The good thing that'll come from AZ's new laws is that it'll force the hand of the Federal Gov't to actually tackle the immigration problem. As quoted from CNN, most of AZ's law is word for word from the Federal law. |
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Is anybody interested in a copy of Paolo Soleri's City in the Image of Man. It's a GIANT book...like maybe 12" x 30" or so. The library is throwing it out. I'll hold on to it if someone wants it.
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^ Yes, that sounds really interesting. :)
I like big books and I cannot lie...no other brothers can deny... :D --don |
You want me to hold on to it for you Don? You can pick it up whenever you're around downtown in the evenings.
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So Sheriff Joe has to announce today if he wants to run for Governor. If he decides to, by law he has to step down as Sheriff. I don't think he will decide to run but I sure am praying he does. It would mean we'd finally get rid of him as Sheriff, investigations could be launched to clean up MCSO, and even if he did get the GOP nomination, I think Terry Goddard would clean his clock in the general election, so ole Joe would be out of public office for good. Sadly his handlers probably realize this as well and will advise him not to run.
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^ Agreed on all counts.
Glynn, check your PM. :) --don |
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^ True, and the far right is already claimed by Bud Mills. :)
--don |
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...id=7HMfBB-tmFa
His traditional will-he-run exercise ended the same way as the previous ones. |
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