Agree to disagree on most of your points… Especially the one about central location. Yes, Miramar is a slightly more central location geographically, but not by population, employment or tourism distribution. I do however agree that Miramar would be a sufficient location, but it will not happen in my lifetime. LJ/UTC residents and the Marines have made that abundantly clear. Time to move on.

I personally feel no duty to cater to north county residents. They made the conscious decision to move to BFE and proximity to NOTHING is simply one of the consequences. Again, just my humble opinion. :)

There have been extensive studies conducted by the SDAA which show that larger aircraft won't make enough of a dent in volume's because SAN already operates high capacity aircrafts relative to other airports.

Also, if moved to Miramar, the airport would be near the North Coast extension of the trolley.

Agree to disagree we shall. :)

Agreed. :) I actually think we should work on improving efficiency and leverage the two other airports we have in our region… Carlsbad and Tijuana. Increase short distance routs from CLD and build the US terminal at TIJ for international flights. I already fly out of TIJ when going anywhere in Mexico and I think this could be expanded to at least all of Central and South America. Besides, anyone who flies a lot knows how inconvenient mega-airports are. They are necessary in mid-contentment hubs or major international ports like NY and LA, but here it would just be a waste and make the average short haul commuter (like me) very unhappy. Maybe I would be singing a different tune if I commuted to Asia or Europe instead of regionally, but I doubt it.

Through my sleuthing the internet, I found this tower proposal:

La Jolla Centre III by Irvine Company - 15 stories
http://www.examiner.com/article/irvi...a-office-tower

Now, as for the Cisterra development north of Petco (15 story office tower proposal), I'm about 90% sure that site is where the Cosmopolitan condominium project (40 stories) was going to go. So it's safe to assume that Cosmo is dead and that when the economy does pick up an office tower is lurking in the shadows.

Now the Kearny Mesa project by Sunroad was a 8 story building last I saw, so I'm not sure if that project would have to be amended in order to accommodate Sempra, although I'm sure they'd have to make it somewhat bigger.

In this article you can see the proposed UTC condominium tower in the background of the new UTC trolley station being designed right now.

http://www.sdnews.com/view/full_stor...home_main_ljvn

PS, does anyone know anything about Monte Verde in UTC? It was the two 34-story, two 35-story project proposed by Costa Verde developers. I know it was reduced in height (of course...) to a 23, two-22, and 21 story development, but I only heard rumors that it was approved or not.

PLEASE, I need info. Gracias.

The 5 is 300m from the end of the runway.... whether coming from 5N or 5S it takes exactly 1 offramp followed by 1 right turn to get through the airport. You deal with a few stoplights, not a difficult "meandering" journey. And transferring is less time than going to miramar... where you would likely still need to transfer. I take the 992, which runs very frequently, and downtown is loaded with trolley stations. I don't really see the problem. Getting from a trolley station near SAN is no harder than getting from airport parking to SAN. And it is a lot easier, and orders of magnitude cheaper, to access SAN with the trolley than any new airport.

CAPACITY was the main reason for the study, and the only place where there is room for debate. On runway length and convenient location, SAN wings. And look even with capacity considerations, the airport is still there.... airlines want more landing slots in the future, not runways big enough for fully laden 747-8's. If the runway was big enough for 747's, how many do you realistically think would land there? Probably almost none. Shifting the 30 flights to LA to rail, and advances in aviation itself (787/350), are going to increase capacity by a lot in the future.

You overestimate the importance of north county travelers, business travelers, and tourists. Business traffic is 44% of all trips! I am CERTAIN those pax would prefer the existing location. 55% of traffic to SD is visitor... I would argue most visit central SD. Business and visitors will clearly prefer lingberg, so the only group on the fence is non-business local passengers, which are a minority, and even then just by the layout of the city I would guess they prefer SAN where it is. Source here

For tourist, convention, and business travelers, core SD is all that matters and those are important groups. the airport is central as possible to probably 95% fo business, convention, and tourist activity. And look at a map of SD, lindberg is literally central to the entire county if you exclude north of the 56. Basically, north county suburbia is left out, and they'd still have to drive to miramar anyways. I don't see the point of moving the airport out of the city's dense core so people from Escondido (what percentage of flyers do they represent?) can shave their 45 mile drive down to 35.

Runway length is not limiting international flights (see 777 to LHR or 787 to Tokyo), except large long haul flights that likely would not come to SD anyways. Also, I fly long haul a LOT, and I have never had a long haul flight during the hours SAN does not permit.

Consolidating 30 flights on small prop plane to 5-10 on 737's, Palomar, plus rail, etc. will when combined. Once landing slots are full, as demand for capacity increases, aircraft landing into SAN will start to carry more passengers. Simple ;) SAN is close to capacity for aircraft movements, but not in terms of passengers. 65% of landings are 100-150 seats, and a further 21% are under 100.... in time those 30 seat turboprops will be replaced by 737, 757, 787, etc. Each daily round trip on which a regional is replaced with say a 787, is 160,000 more passengers a year. This comes from the same study, which is admittedly old.

International markets are not limited by the bloody airport!!! They are limited by demand and economic conditions. 777 and 787 are perfectly capable of flying to pretty much all of the destinations airlines would ever want to serve from san diego. Sure, SAN to SYD can't happen because of the airport, but the market for that flight will never exist in SD, it's too small.

A new airport at miramar would cost BILLIONS, as would the trolley lines which no one would ride except for the airport (there is a reason all realistic proposed lines aren't to miramar.) What do you get for those billions? Basically it's closer to a few at the expense of further from many.

Says the north county guy who wants the airport moved further from 3million people in the densest part of the city, and closer to himself and the 500k residing in its most scarcely populated, far reaching corners. And mirarmar wasn't defeated by NIMBY's, it was defeated in every city in the county, including those which stood only to gain and not lose, according to the UTSD.

Carlsbad and Encinitas (51 percent “no”), Solana Beach (53 percent), San Marcos and National City (54 percent), Oceanside (55 percent), Vista (56 percent), Chula Vista and Escondido (57 percent), Del Mar (62 percent), La Mesa (63 percent), Imperial Beach (64 percent), El Cajon and San Diego (65 percent) Lemon Grove and Coronado (66 percent), Poway (74 percent) and Santee (75 percent).

http://matchbin-assets.s3.amazonaws....w_apts_007.JPGI know its not downtown but others post stuff not there either. this is in my neck of the woods.

High end, mixed-used project taking shape in Crown Point
by Marsha Kay Seff 8 days ago | 2207 views | 0 | 4 | |

view slideshow (2 images)
After languishing on the market for the last two years, the old Union 76 gas station property at Ingraham Street and La Playa Avenue in Crown Point is under development. Rising from the site is The Point at Ingraham, a high-end, urban-design, mixed-use project.

At three stories, the apartments and commercial space that will add up to 35,000 square feet will house 21 apartments and 2,266 square feet of retail space, possibly with a café and drycleaners. The lot, which measures 22,500 square feet, will include 45 parking spaces behind the building, plus room for bicycles inside and out.

Brothers Russell and Scott Murfey, native San Diegans who live in Pacific Beach and who have an office kitty corner to the project, are the developers under their Veritas Urban Properties through Murfey Construction. The Murfeys bought the property from Loma La Jolla LLC for $1.2 million.

The Point will include nine two-bedroom apartments, 11 one-bedrooms and one studio. The Murfeys haven’t firmed up any deals for the commercial space, but they said there has been “quite a bit of interest.” The goal is to be finished with the project by the end of this year.

“I believe Pacific Beach needs higher-quality apartment buildings,” said Russell Murfey. “We’re excited to bring this product to the market because it’s different from anything out there.”

He said the current trend in Pacific Beach is for young people to come and enjoy the benefits of the beach for awhile and then leave, because there are not enough high-quality rentals.

“We believe there’s room for hard-working people who want to stay in PB,” said Russell Murfey.

He sees his renters as Generation Y, who are out of school with well-paying first or second jobs, maybe with children, looking for good, entry-level housing.

The brothers, who have built other mixed-use products around San Diego, currently are also building a 4,000-square-foot home on the water in La Jolla Shores.

Murfey said The Point apartment rates will be competitive with nearby complexes, including Avalon at Mission Bay next door, and the new apartments will include such luxury aspects like hard-surface countertops and European cabinetry and 18-foot ceilings in the commercial space.

Murfey said neighbors have been enthusiastic.

Joe Splendorio, bar manager at Rocky’s Crown Pub, kitty corner to the project, said he believes the project will help business “if there’s no retail.” He’s also a bit worried about parking.

Sal Yacoub, owner of the VP Racing gas station across the street, also sees advantages.

“It’s going to be better than it is now,” he said.

But he, too, worries about parking for the new businesses and traffic from the new project’ exits, even though he concedes many customers will be walking anyway. Being a businessman, Yacoub said he’s negotiating on renting a space in the complex for a food court.

Murfey said neighbors shouldn’t worry about parking issues.

“There are plenty of parking spaces; one per bedroom, three for guests and 13 for commercial,” he said. “That’s more than required by city code. We pulled the retail back from the corner with an outdoor patio and a seat-wall as a public amenity for social gatherings.”

Murfey described himself and his brother as locals who want to do the right thing.

“PB has a lot of room to grow into an incredible beach area that’s not just for college kids,” he said “… We’re part of the community and want to be cohesive with Crown Point and Pacific Beach, including our neighbors.”

• Veritas Urban Properties, 1571 La Playa Ave; www.veritasurban.com

I don't understand this whole airport debate. The fact that the airport is right next to downtown sucks, period. Who cares if it's "central" and "near the core"? Almost every large city airport is located far from their city's center, and they're all doing just fine.

Avalon apartments is ground zero for the negative stereotype associated with PB. I hope the city one day decides to condemn Bay Point and Avalon and redevelop this incredible piece of real estate.

I'm excited for this corner. This will be a great addition to PB/Crown Point. It's time PB matures and grows. I agree with the developers on this point.

I worked on one of them. It's a sick building located a block north of Petco Park.

At the site where cosmo was supposed to go right? What is the height? Details kpexpress, details! (please and thank you).

you're correct on the site. The project details technically are still confidential. I can be vague and tell you that it's a very nice high rise office building, huge observation deck cutout of the top, very nice curtain wall, touches the ground elegantly, public plazas and nice adaptive reuse of the context buildings.

With the exposure Sempra will get from having their logo in the outfield of every Padres game they'd be dumb not to move.

Hopefully it's around the 480 foot mark. ;)

Sounds pleasant. Thank you. And Derek, if its going to be 15 stories, I assume its not going to be even at 300'. :(

The DiamondView office bldg at Petco is 15 floors, so I imagine it will be of smilar statue and height. I'm glad for more office in the area, but 15 floors, versus the 40 floors that Cosmo was going to be is disapointing. Wish we could get a new office tower over 30+ floors...it's been a while since one has been built

Oh man, I missed the 15 story part. :(

Or how about this amazing concept for that site that I saw tons of in Sydney..... MIXED USE!!!!! I don't understand why San Diego can not grasp this.... How about 15 floors of office with 15 to 20 of residential on top? I'm sure Seattle is doing some of this, Vancouver, etc. Wake up little SD we are a big city now too :shrug:

a question: is there a post like the thread opener that has an updated (2013) summary of projects u/c, approved and proposed? i'd love to get a sense of sd's recovery, considering the absolute epic boom in the pre-crash.

This is a great idea, somebody do it! :D

(busy grad student here with no time for that...)

(-passing the buck-)

:runaway:

Seriously.

Who cares if the downtown location is convenient?

I rather deal with an extra 30 minute commute to Miramar/the Desert than to deal with a 5 hour layover at SFO because we can't get a damn direct flight to Paris.

Amazes me that so many people care about the "convenient" location instead of the vast positive economic impact a new airport can do to the region.

Looks good.

Well not the tower really but just the development in general.

Reminds me that I haven't been to UTC in a while and the last time construction was barely beginning so it should be much different now...

I don't think the market could handle 40 story office tower.

Agreed. Especially in this environment where everything built is for a specific company/entity. It's just too risky to build without having a lined up lease.

In fact, I think there are a few office towers downtown that could be converted to other uses. Those "B" and "C" class complexes haven't been attractive to tenants for years, pulling them from the market might help spur class "A" development as vacancy rates drop and space is harder to come by.

In the article, the owners of the Sempra building even says he'd be willing to look into converting his tower to hotel or residential use.

agreed

Can anyone answer my question of why a taller mixed use tower isn't being considered for that Cosmo site? I mean it is already approved for a 400 plus foot tower why not maximize the site....

No idea. :(

How's the SD condo/apartment market (downtown specifically)?

Does anyone believe Sempra may be interested in 880 W Broadway? They may not need the entire building, but it is a high profile site, and offers a lot of space. I'm not sure how Sempra downsizing to a 15 story building makes sense (assuming floor sq footage is equal), unless they are not currently occupying their entire building. I would think they would move to a building that has room to grow.

Just checked the mls, only 150 condos on the market! There is nada for sale downtown.

Does anyone have any information on the project here in North Park that's on the corner of North Park Way and Grim Ave? I asked some of the construction crew about it and they just said "apartments" It's the old North Park Post Office, I'm sure they're keeping the building because of it's age but I know little more than that. Thanks.

Are they renovating or constructing an addition? I know a lot of former post office sites are being converted, either by the federal government or developers who bought off properties, to new uses. Golden Hill's old post office is being converted into an apartment complex (4 units). Downtown's main post office might get a 17-story apartment tower built on top of it. Its probably a similar project in NP.

Here is the Golden Hill project:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2...fice-becomes-/

SDfan -

As of today they're demoing the parking area and loading docks, probably renovating the existing structure and adding an addition? Probably not unlike the Golden Hill one... just haven't seen any drawings of concepts. Hopefully it won't be another ugly complex like much of the properties surrounding it.

Also, has anyone seen the concept architecture for the new Jonathan Segal project "North Parker" on 30th & Upas? 27 units w/4 ground level restaurant spaces? Lots of interesting things going on in the neighborhood.

I disagree. People here don't realize what they have. We basically have a Boston Logan, or a Laguardia.

If you're willing to drive 30-45 minutes away you may as well just drive another 1.5 hours to LAX for European flights. I imagine the share of San Diegans flying to Paris doesn't justify building a mega airport on the fringe of the metro area.

How is Miramar on "the fringe of the metro area"?


It's 20 minutes from downtown, 30 minutes from Chula Vista, 35 minutes from Oceanside, 30 minutes from Escondido. It's literally in the middle of the San Diego metro area.

Solana Beach train station project to return to the table after years of rest
 

Solana Beach train station project to return to the table after years of rest

By Claire Harlin
Del Mar Times
January 29, 2013

"Solana Beach and local transit officials will be once again focusing their attention on a possible train station project on the 5.7-acre site at Lomas Santa Fe Drive and Cedros Avenue, an effort that was abandoned several years ago after local and regional officials couldn’t come to a consensus on a vision for the site.

The North County Transit District (NCTD), which owns the long corner lot that extends from Lomas Santa Fe north through the 300-space commuter parking lot, is waiting on approval from the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) to reappropriate funding for the project. Solana Beach Mayor Mike Nichols said a request for proposal (RFP) could go out as soon as March to solicit potential contractors for design and construction.

Nichols said the NCTD/Train Station Site Ad-Hoc Committee — which includes Nichols, Councilwoman Lesa Heebner and local resident and developer David Winkler — has been holding meetings with NCTD over the past year to hammer out what they want out of the project. He said Solana Beach officials have been told by NCTD that the ad-hoc committee’s development guidelines, in addition to the city-commissioned drawings by architect John Gish that they support, will be included in the RFP guidelines. Both Gish and Winkler are highly respected for their successful design and development of the Del Mar Plaza..."

http://www.delmartimes.net/2013/01/2...years-of-rest/

Waterfront development delayed by Coastal Commission
 

Click here to see the video about the delay of the Manchester/Navy/Broadway development.

http://www.kusi.com/video?clipId=8275542&autostart=true

Horton Plaza project gets state approval
 

The state Department of Finance, reversing a previous decision, decided that San Diego can use leftover redevelopment funds to pay for a project at Horton Plaza, City Council President Todd Gloria said Wednesday.

About $14 million in redevelopment funds will be spent to renovate the downtown plaza and raze a building to make room for a 1.3-acre park set to open next year.


http://www.10news.com/news/horton-pl...state-approval

Wow...big surprise.

Ahhh the Coastal Commission...it never ends. I get them sticking their head into developments outside of densely populated areas, but the fact that they have the authority (guess we'll see) to try to halt development downtown is absurd.

At least Lane Field is still moving along, right?

Gotta love the Coastal Commission. Good Ole Can'tifornia trying to stop a project here in "Ban Diego" --- Unreal how it has taken soooo long to get things going on the waterfront. So pathetic. Somewhere Vancouver and Sydney are laughing....

Vancouver and Sydney are laughing AND approving waterfront projects.

It's the geographic center of the county. Lindberg is the population centroid.center of the population. 45% of pax are business travelers, and 55% are visitors. For both these groups lindberg is an overwhelmingly better location. The last remaining group is resident non-business travel. For that group, everyone south of the midpoint between miramar is better off with lindberg. I would bet that's over half the san diego air travel population.

All this, along with the billions required to build a new airport, is probably why the airport hasn't been moved. The airport is fine as-is, and there are definitely other things in SD that need funding more than a rebuild of a perfectly good airport.

+1 I am sure they are really upholding their core mission with this kind of crap....

"The California Coastal Commission's mission is 'To protect, conserve, restore, and enhance the environment of the California coastline' "

:koko:

aerogt3: I think you are being a bit short sighted when thinking that San Diego is using its land (with regards to the airport) in the best way possible.

First of all if the airport were moved think about all that could be done with not only the existing land and huge parking lots and supply depots that make up Lindbergh but all of Bankers Hill south of say Juniper Street and down to the freeway. I count at least 30 square blocks that are obviously extremely affected by the incoming flight path and are not built up to their potential.

As San Diego moves in to the future and needs to densify its core the airport land and Bankers Hill South would be able to accommodate at least 20,000 housing units with a high percentage having stunning views.

Also consider the Sports Arena property and the entire Midway Rosecrans area that is a complete joke and very underutilized for it being so close to the coast. Moving Lindbergh could help in getting this area on the right track as well.

Then we have the potential of Miramar. Very close to three large job centers: UTC, Sorrento Valley/Miramar Road, and Kearny Mesa. This is the perfect place to add dense housing, the south end of the property would be perfect place to add at least 5000 housing units and those people will have a very short commute to work. Possibly add some affordable housing for airport workers.... I think all of this is a clear win win for the San Diego Metro as a whole.

couldn't have said it any better!

Ill take the convenience thank you very much. Are airport is small and easy to get around and thats the way it should stay! We dont need no big airport like LA or Chicago because people here dont go that far, the readership isnt there in San Diego for these huge things. besides Miramar is there to stay permanent forever per the city agreement so back off this whole new airport idea its fine the way it is!