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-   -   CHICAGO | Obama Presidential Library (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=208617)

marothisu Jul 28, 2016 1:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 7514998)
.....Anyway, great the city is getting the library but I'm not gonna lie in that I'm really disappointed at the choice of the site. I think it is a rather short sighted and a pretty large missed opportunity. I just don't imagine the surrounding neighborhood getting the same lift nor having the exciting potential of transformation of the Washington Park site. Also I was hoping that the Obama's would have the respect and modesty to not build the actual structure within actual present park space. That would have still been possible on the Washington Park site but is an impossibility on the Jackson Park site. Oh well.
I wish it was in the Washington Park site, but I can understand the allure of Jackson Park. Also, there's actually been a small amount of gentrification going on in Woodlawn as well - there HAVE been full home renovations in the area, some new construction (mixed income), a few new community type of buildings, Strand Hotel renovation/conversion, and recently a 24 unit building broke ground on a vacant lot there.

maru2501 Jul 28, 2016 3:44 PM
I think the library should probably be the catalyst for at least one more hotel over there

emathias Jul 28, 2016 3:56 PM
I wish it had been in the Washington Park area simply for the reason that it would probably have given a nice boost to the Dusable Museum.

rlw777 Jul 28, 2016 4:13 PM
With Jackson Park being the location for this I think it's time for the gray line to happen. It already seems like every time I have friends or family visiting they mention some desire for going down to Hyde Park (usually for Museum of Science and Industry or Robie House / UofC Architecture) and none of them ever go cause getting there is a hassle.

Mr Downtown Jul 28, 2016 4:29 PM
What do they find such a hassle about the door-to-door express bus?

emathias Jul 28, 2016 4:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlw777 (Post 7515282)
With Jackson Park being the location for this I think it's time for the gray line to happen. It already seems like every time I have friends or family visiting they mention some desire for going down to Hyde Park (usually for Museum of Science and Industry or Robie House / UofC Architecture) and none of them ever go cause getting there is a hassle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 7515295)
What do they find such a hassle about the door-to-door express bus?
I have to admit that before I had people in Hyde Park I visited on a regular basis I was a little intimidated by the bus service. But now that I use it all the time, the #6 is a great route for the east half of Hyde Park. The only thing weird about it is that you pick it up southbound on State Street and it drops you off northbound on Michigan.

sentinel Jul 28, 2016 4:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7515261)
I wish it had been in the Washington Park area simply for the reason that it would probably have given a nice boost to the Dusable Museum.
I'm glad that the Obama Library will be in Jackson Park because it won't potentially overshadow the Dusable Museum. I think it's singular status in Washington Park gives the Dusable a better chance of augmenting the Obama Library with whatever opportunities will arise between the two institutions, and just by virtue of being on opposite ends of the University of Chicago, almost acting as 'bookends' and reminders of how such a world-class university is situated in such an historically rich and significant neighborhood.

Jim in Chicago Jul 28, 2016 4:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7515303)
I have to admit that before I had people in Hyde Park I visited on a regular basis I was a little intimidated by the bus service. But now that I use it all the time, the #6 is a great route for the east half of Hyde Park. The only thing weird about it is that you pick it up southbound on State Street and it drops you off northbound on Michigan.
Not to mention the #2 express when it's running, which drops you right at 57th and Stony Island or even closer at the Midway, as well as the #10 Museum of Science and Industry - the schedule for which I've never figured out. The #2 runs up State in both directions.

And the Red line down to 55th/Garfield is super fast and then the #55 to the MSI isn't an intimidating as it seems and is often full of UofC people. Maybe the CTA will have the foresight to think about some sort of express from that stop to the Obama Library - make a stop at the Green line, and then one stop at Ellis or University for the UofC folk and they'd have a winner.

rlw777 Jul 28, 2016 5:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 7515295)
What do they find such a hassle about the door-to-door express bus?
It's just an intimidating extra step an extra system to figure out to go do something that they might want to do slightly more than other options downtown.

SamInTheLoop Jul 28, 2016 5:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UPChicago (Post 7514643)
You guys are taking it too far the guy (Via_Chicago) simply said he wished it wasn't in the park which, if there were other viable options, I think most could agree with. He could be a white guy from Canada or a green guy from Mars and be well within his right to express that opinion. At the end of the day he nor I nor anyone here (mostly) are decision makers and likely don't have vested interest in those neighborhoods, so our opinions are just that.....opinions.


No kidding. That was a ridiculous uncalled-for overreaction.....


If the local community came out against this specific location within Jackson Park, I have no doubt that some of these very same folks commenting would be calling them NIMBYs.....

SamInTheLoop Jul 28, 2016 5:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7514705)
I'm not sure LMNA enjoyed the broad support you seemed to think it did. Minority groups didn't really care one way or the other (Father Pfleger excepted) while progressives generally didn't think it was appropriate for a billionaire to build a vanity project on public land. Bears fans were sore about the loss of tailgating.

Of course, many of the progressives I talked to seemed to think this was usable park space, instead of a Bears parking lot... several people moderated their opposition after I showed them the Google map. Really this area of the lakefront is only used by Bears fans and South Siders, so it's kind of an unknown for a lot of Chicagoans which allowed FOTP to control the public opinion to an extent.

At the Obama Library, you have the opposite situation. Minority groups generally don't have a dogmatic opinion to preserve parkland at any cost - Dyett High School and countless other CPS facilities across the South/West Sides were built in parks because the land was free (to CPS) and neighborhood residents valued education more than the sanctity of green space. Minority groups also place the Obama Library and honoring Obama's accomplishments at a very high priority, also higher than the sanctity of green space.

Meanwhile, white North Siders are generally in favor of the Library but don't really care one way or the other about green space that they never visit. FOTP knows this is a losing battle because they don't have anybody lined up in support.

Agreed. This is a very perceptive analysis of the political breakdown....

marothisu Jul 28, 2016 6:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop (Post 7515396)
No kidding. That was a ridiculous uncalled-for overreaction.....


If the local community came out against this specific location within Jackson Park, I have no doubt that some of these very same folks commenting would be calling them NIMBYs.....
I actually wouldn't, personally. I could actually understand if people say "I use this park all the time, and would hate to see it have something like this built on it." If it was for some ridiculous reason, then yeah maybe, but when there are legitimate concerns from the people who use it all the time I think they have every right to complain. In this case, they aren't.

SamInTheLoop Jul 28, 2016 6:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilsenarch (Post 7514583)
You are a prick.

Wholly absent in justification. Marothisu's incessant obnoxious posts (in which very little of true substance is actually communicated) are to be anticipated (one will no doubt shortly follow here). Much more is generally, however, expected of you.......

marothisu Jul 28, 2016 6:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathias (Post 7515303)
I have to admit that before I had people in Hyde Park I visited on a regular basis I was a little intimidated by the bus service. But now that I use it all the time, the #6 is a great route for the east half of Hyde Park. The only thing weird about it is that you pick it up southbound on State Street and it drops you off northbound on Michigan.
I think it is intimidating to people who are not from Chicago or not used to a bus system. The train for many is intimidating but they do it. I will admit that I avoid most buses down there because it either takes too long (the express bus is fine though) or some routes don't run late enough (I do realize the #6 bus runs until or a little after midnight, but still takes awhile to get to where you need to go - trains are much faster). Hyde Park is getting more and more, but I think for someone who lives downtown/north side to have to take a bus down there who wants to dine out might not put up with a long ride unless where they're going is supposed to be amazing.

HomrQT Jul 28, 2016 9:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7515500)
I think it is intimidating to people who are not from Chicago or not used to a bus system. The train for many is intimidating but they do it. I will admit that I avoid most buses down there because it either takes too long (the express bus is fine though) or some routes don't run late enough (I do realize the #6 bus runs until or a little after midnight, but still takes awhile to get to where you need to go - trains are much faster). Hyde Park is getting more and more, but I think for someone who lives downtown/north side to have to take a bus down there who wants to dine out might not put up with a long ride unless where they're going is supposed to be amazing.
The CTA and Metra are very much of the attitude, we're here, use the trains and buses if you want, if not we don't really care. Thank you for riding the CTA. :haha:

ChickeNES Jul 28, 2016 9:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago (Post 7515332)
Maybe the CTA will have the foresight to think about some sort of express from that stop to the Obama Library - make a stop at the Green line, and then one stop at Ellis or University for the UofC folk and they'd have a winner.
The University used to subsidize the 174, which hit the two L stations and the quad. I'm not sure if they would bring it back with an expanded route, or use the UofC shuttle fleet instead. If I had to guess it will be the latter, as they almost stopped subsidizing all of the 17X routes a couple of years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 7515240)
I think the library should probably be the catalyst for at least one more hotel over there
Well there's already the boutique hotel at 53rd/Dorchester that should start construction in the next few months, and UofC officials have hinted at plans for a hotel at 60th/Dorchester on the site of the old Hyde Park Day School.

Jim in Chicago Jul 29, 2016 2:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickeNES (Post 7515666)
The University used to subsidize the 174, which hit the two L stations and the quad. I'm not sure if they would bring it back with an expanded route, or use the UofC shuttle fleet instead. If I had to guess it will be the latter, as they almost stopped subsidizing all of the 17X routes a couple of years ago.
They stopped subsidizing the 173 and 174 a fair number of years ago. I don't see that coming back, but it seems like the CTA might figure they could break even on an actual express bus. There actually used to be an X55 that got cut in the mass culling of express buses.

Mr Downtown Jul 29, 2016 2:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7515500)
I do realize the #6 bus runs until or a little after midnight, but still takes awhile to get to where you need to go - trains are much faster
But are they? Let's look at a typical visitor journey, Palmer House to MSI.

Metra Electric is 17 minutes, but wait time on average adds another half-hour, even on a weekday.

#10 bus takes 23 minutes door to door

#6 bus takes 33 minutes door to (almost) door

Green Line takes 23 minutes just to get to Cottage Grove, so if extended to Stony Island again that would take 27 minutes.

If you think it's complicated to explain to a visitor "take a #6 or #10 bus, whichever comes first," try explaining to them how to find Van Buren Station, how to buy a ticket, that they can't board a train with dark orange letterboards, only one marked Metra—even though they look almost identical; and that only some trains will stop at 57th, but even if it doesn't it will probably stop at 59th.

marothisu Jul 29, 2016 2:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 7516237)
But are they? Let's look at a typical visitor journey, Palmer House to MSI.

Metra Electric is 17 minutes, but wait time on average adds another half-hour, even on a weekday.

#10 bus takes 23 minutes door to door

#6 bus takes 33 minutes door to (almost) door

Green Line takes 23 minutes just to get to Cottage Grove, so if extended to Stony Island again that would take 27 minutes.

If you think it's complicated to explain to a visitor "take a #6 or #10 bus, whichever comes first," try explaining to them how to find Van Buren Station, how to buy a ticket, that they can't board a train with dark orange letterboards, only one marked Metra—even though they look almost identical; and that only some trains will stop at 57th, but even if it doesn't it will probably stop at 59th.
Your points are legitimate. If someone is experienced with other commuter trains or Metra, then I don't think there's much of a problem (I didn't really have a problem the first time I rode a metra - maybe it's not a normal case though?). They certainly won't be showing up a half hour early. The people who are not experienced though in this, yeah I agree with you.

I wish there was the gray line though.

Mr Downtown Jul 29, 2016 5:08 PM
Today's email from Friends of the Parks
 
OBAMA LIBRARY SLATED FOR JACKSON PARK

You have probably heard the unofficial news that the Obama library is coming to Jackson Park, per recent media coverage of the issue.

Friends of the Parks strongly opposes the idea that parkland be used for development. Back during the period when the City was preparing its bid for the presidential library and when the President and First Lady were deciding which city to choose, Friends of the Parks repeatedly voiced our excitement about Chicago hosting the Obama Library while clearly articulating our opposition to using parkland. When the University of Chicago's bid was ultimately chosen, we again welcomed the library to Chicago while repeating our disapproval of the use of parkland. We have said over and over again that the 11 acres of vacant land--owned by the University of Chicago, the City, and the Chicago Transit authority--across the street from Washington Park are a much more appropriate site.

We are disappointed that the Obama Foundation has chosen to utilize parkland. But as that is the reality that we face, we will continue to call for minimal damage to the integrity of the historic, Frederick Law Olmstead-designed park and for the addition of green space in the area to make up for parkland that will be utilized.

Friends of the Parks will release an official statement on these issues when the formal announcement about the library's location is made by the Obama Foundation, which is rumored to be sometime next week. At that time, we will also provide more detail as to our reasons for not pursuing a lawsuit to block this project, despite our disagreement with its location in a park.


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