SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

osmo Apr 18, 2018 4:58 PM

NBA and Raptors fans are very young. These young fans will show up in social media metrics more-so than they would in traditional (dated) television numbers. In this day and age, I would rather have sky-high social media metrics versus television ratings. Old relics like the NFL can hold on dear to television numbers but its the NBA with its young fans and social media following that has the more profitable future.

craneSpotter Apr 18, 2018 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8159180)
NBA and Raptors fans are very young. These young fans will show up in social media metrics more-so than they would in traditional (dated) television numbers. In this day and age, I would rather have sky-high social media metrics versus television ratings. Old relics like the NFL can hold on dear to television numbers but its the NBA with its young fans and social media following that has the more profitable future.

The only thing working against basketball is that so many people find it boring.

Acajack Apr 18, 2018 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8159226)
The only thing working against basketball is that so many people find it boring.

I am not a basketball fan but any sport will have people who find it boring.

Anyone who follows pro sports in North America knows the NBA is impressively ascendant right now but the enthusiasm and cheerleading for its growth on SSP Canada of all places leads me to wonder if some guys here don't have millions of stock options in the league...

elly63 Apr 18, 2018 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8159231)
but the enthusiasm and cheerleading for its growth on SSP Canada of all places leads me to wonder if some guys here don't have millions of stock options in the league...

I've noticed that, lol, and conversely the same guys doing the cheerleading are at other topics insidiously trolling hoping if something else fails it will leave the gates wide open. Don't think it works that way. :)

elly63 Apr 18, 2018 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8159231)
I am not a basketball fan but any sport will have people who find it boring.

I have zero interest in the Raps or the present NBA but lately have been watching OpenCourt where they talk with some oldtimers. I'm finding that interesting.

Heard Bill Walton give a great compliment to Steve Nash years ago, said he was the closet thing to Pistol Pete. Also heard Maravich say he had three offers back when he was starting his pro career, one from the ABA, one from the NBA, and one to be the first white guy to play for the Harlem Globetrotters (aside from Abe Saperstein)

Acajack Apr 18, 2018 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8159435)
I've noticed that, lol, and conversely the same guys doing the cheerleading are at other topics insidiously trolling hoping if something else fails it will leave the gates wide open. Don't think it works that way. :)

I honestly wonder what is to be gained by all of this.

So if we elevate the Raptors to a higher level and Argo-fy the Leafs to the second-rung status that NHL teams have in all but two or three cities in the U.S., and maybe we kill off the CFL (or at least the Argos)... and somehow this will make us more "big time"?

elly63 Apr 18, 2018 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8159581)
So if we elevate the Raptors to a higher level and Argo-fy the Leafs to the second-rung status that NHL teams have in all but two or three cities in the U.S., and maybe we kill off the CFL (or at least the Argos)... and somehow this will make us more "big time"?

Apparently, the amount of effort that has gone into this says the answer is an unequivocal, yes.

Berklon Apr 18, 2018 10:48 PM

I think some people need to take off their tin-foil hats and step away from their computers.

elly63 Apr 18, 2018 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8159723)
I think some people need to take off their tin-foil hats and step away from their computers.

Speaking of which

wave46 Apr 18, 2018 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8159581)
I honestly wonder what is to be gained by all of this.

So if we elevate the Raptors to a higher level and Argo-fy the Leafs to the second-rung status that NHL teams have in all but two or three cities in the U.S., and maybe we kill off the CFL (or at least the Argos)... and somehow this will make us more "big time"?

What is to be gained? Um, money. MLSE would be quite happy to have 2 top tier sports franchises.

What is to be gained from a 'Canadian' perspective? The blurry line between 'American' and 'Canadian' (fine, Anglo-Canadian) will blur a little more? What can I say? Toronto aspires to be 'world-class'. It seems to be following the New York model quite nicely. If you think that's a good thing or not is a subjective matter.

GlassCity Apr 19, 2018 2:57 AM

I'm a big Raptors fan, and I've watched as many games as I could since I started watching sometime in 2011, 2012 when they were at the bottom of the league and Andrea Bargnani was leading the team. I'm not a great case study for an immigrant since I was 5 when I came to Canada, but I'll say that I became a fan by getting on the basketball team in high school, getting into it and cheering for what seemed like the "natural" team to follow.

I've watched hockey since I was 8 however, because I remember distinctly how all the boys in grade 3 watched and talked about it and I wanted to fit in. So I'll kind of echo Acajack's comments. I'd really love for basketball to do well in Canada, mostly for selfish reasons: I want to be able to actually talk to people about basketball, and I want Vancouver to get an NBA team. But it is disappointing to see an all-white crowd at the Leafs outdoor party. I won't go so far as to say that hockey's gonna be displaced by basketball, or god forbid soccer, any time soon, but it's not a good sign for hockey (or basketball for that matter) to have such demographically distinct fan bases.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 3:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8159747)
What is to be gained? Um, money. MLSE would be quite happy to have 2 top tier sports franchises.

What is to be gained from a 'Canadian' perspective? The blurry line between 'American' and 'Canadian' (fine, Anglo-Canadian) will blur a little more? What can I say? Toronto aspires to be 'world-class'. It seems to be following the New York model quite nicely. If you think that's a good thing or not is a subjective matter.

Just as long as we're clear about what's really going on and aren't playing the game of denial.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 3:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8159950)
I'm a big Raptors fan, and I've watched as many games as I could since I started watching sometime in 2011, 2012 when they were at the bottom of the league and Andrea Bargnani was leading the team. I'm not a great case study for an immigrant since I was 5 when I came to Canada, but I'll say that I became a fan by getting on the basketball team in high school, getting into it and cheering for what seemed like the "natural" team to follow.

I've watched hockey since I was 8 however, because I remember distinctly how all the boys in grade 3 watched and talked about it and I wanted to fit in. So I'll kind of echo Acajack's comments. I'd really love for basketball to do well in Canada, mostly for selfish reasons: I want to be able to actually talk to people about basketball, and I want Vancouver to get an NBA team. But it is disappointing to see an all-white crowd at the Leafs outdoor party. I won't go so far as to say that hockey's gonna be displaced by basketball, or god forbid soccer, any time soon, but it's not a good sign for hockey (or basketball for that matter) to have such demographically distinct fan bases.

Good points, but it's really hard not to see the overall situation as a failing of some kind. Even if some people are too busy paying attention to March Madness or the AFC wild card game to give a damn.

In a country with precious little that is culturally iconic (if we're honest), hockey is one of the rare things that has stood out as powerful national symbol for over 100 years. We invented the game. It's arguably the sport that Canadians are best at internationally. Recognition of this sport as something that is classically Canadians goes far beyond our borders - people around the world identify Canada with hockey.

Now we have some degree of evidence that a good chunk of the younger generation that's coming of age has little time for this sport. Whereas not long ago at all, previous generations (including immigrants of various origins I can attest personally) adopted the game as their own.

And we're being told that all of this is without consequence.

So in terms of cultural convergence points that are truly Canadian, we basically have no TV, no movies, no folk traditions, very little in terms of food, etc.

And at some point in the future... maybe no hockey?

rousseau Apr 19, 2018 4:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8159723)
I think some people need to take off their tin-foil hats and step away from their computers.

No kidding. Do you think there's a small chance that people, uh, just really like basketball?

Hockey's inherent structural problem is that what you see on TV or from the stands is not easily replicated without expensive equipment and ice time. You can make do with a facsimile like ball hockey, and I had lots of fun playing that as a kid, but there's not so much playing on frozen rivers or backyard rinks anymore. It's really hard as a kid to dive into hockey really intensively because the opportunities for that are so fleeting.

The price of admission, both literally and figuratively, is really high, and you don't get all that much for the money. Plus parental involvement is so intensive.

Whereas with basketball and football/soccer you can play as much as you want, all day long. When I was a hockey player I had two games and one practice a week combined with one or two impromptu ball hockey games. But just in the winter, because we didn't play ball hockey in the summer.

When I switched to basketball I played every day of the year, virtually as much as I wanted. We'd spend hours on the court during summer vacation. Throughout the school year we played in the gym between classes and at lunchtime and after school, never mind during the actual season when we were playing games and practicing.

How can you make hockey more appealing to the mushy middle cohort of kids wavering in their choice of sports? I think you'd need to make it more accessible. Less forbidding, financially and otherwise. Maybe build lots more rinks run like roller rinks where you can go in any time you want to skate for really cheap. Have several mini-rinks in the complex with goals set up for pickup games. Have skates and sticks available for kids who don't have their own.

Just some ideas...

GlassCity Apr 19, 2018 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8159971)
Good points, but it's really hard not to see the overall situation as a failing of some kind. Even if some people are too busy paying attention to March Madness or the AFC wild card game to give a damn.

In a country with precious little that is culturally iconic (if we're honest), hockey is one of the rare things that has stood out as powerful national symbol for over 100 years. We invented the game. It's arguably the sport that Canadians are best at internationally. Recognition of this sport as something that is classically Canadians goes far beyond our borders - people around the world identify Canada with hockey.

Now we have some degree of evidence that a good chunk of the younger generation that's coming of age has little time for this sport. Whereas not long ago at all, previous generations (including immigrants of various origins I can attest personally) adopted the game as their own.

And we're being told that all of this is without consequence.

So in terms of cultural convergence points that are truly Canadian, we basically have no TV, no movies, no folk traditions, very little in terms of food, etc.

And at some point in the future... maybe no hockey?

You use the word "but" here but I agreed entirely with your previous post and with this one as well. I do think it's a failing. And immigrants aside, the frequency with which I hear Canadian-born people exclaim that "they don't even like hockey" as something they're proud of breaks my heart a little. I've heard similar things, like "I don't say eh" too. I don't understand this apparent need to disassociate one's self from Canada and rush towards some cosmopolitan (read: American) genericism. I do get that hockey's a tough, tough sport to actually participate in, but the level of indifference and occasional giddiness of losing these things still surprises me.

I understand other sports growing with immigrant populations rising and that's great and all, but if hockey fell even to the level of popularity in the US I think it'd be a tragedy. Especially considering it's really our only opportunity at a major league consisting of this many Canadian teams. I don't care how big the NBA gets in Canada, we're never getting teams outside Toronto or Vancouver.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rousseau (Post 8160024)
No kidding. Do you think there's a small chance that people, uh, just really like basketball?

..

I realize you're a long-time basketball fan but you're also a keen observer of society, people, Canada, etc.

So surely you know that for a lot of people, there is more to this than simply really liking basketball.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8160073)
You use the word "but" here but I agreed entirely with your previous post and with this one as well. I do think it's a failing. And immigrants aside, the frequency with which I hear Canadian-born people exclaim that "they don't even like hockey" as something they're proud of breaks my heart a little. I've heard similar things, like "I don't say eh" too. I don't understand this apparent need to disassociate one's self from Canada and rush towards some cosmopolitan (read: American) genericism. I do get that hockey's a tough, tough sport to actually participate in, but the level of indifference and occasional giddiness of losing these things still surprises me.

.

Gotcha. The highlighted portions are particularly true.

What's ironic is that most of these people are still proud Canadians. Or at least consider themselves as such. They don't really envy or admire the U.S. as a country or society. They just really, really like their "stuff" and "trappings".

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8160073)
I understand other sports growing with immigrant populations rising and that's great and all, but if hockey fell even to the level of popularity in the US I think it'd be a tragedy. Especially considering it's really our only opportunity at a major league consisting of this many Canadian teams. I don't care how big the NBA gets in Canada, we're never getting teams outside Toronto or Vancouver.

I also find it's an illusion to think that somehow this will give Canada more "cred" because basketball (or, taking a page from another debate, the NFL) is always gonna be bigger than something that's uniquely Canadian.

Nobody who is looking for the "ultimate authentic basketball experience" is going to come to Toronto or anywhere in Canada for that. No more than anyone comes here as a baseball pilgrimage. Unless they are a fan of a specific player who happens to be playing for the Jays or Raptors at the moment.

Our only hope to stand out in terms of sports was and still is ice hockey. (Well, maybe the CFL too if it were to become a quirky curiosity like Aussie rules football did at one point - but so far that has not happened. It likely never will as the game is too close to the American variant.)

And speaking of Aussie rules, one of the reasons I first went to Australia was that I had become a fan of the game by watching it on TSN. I timed my trip for the playoffs down there and saw a whole bunch of games. Would I have gone to Australia with attending soccer or basketball games top of mind? Probably not, even though they have pro leagues for both of those. Probably not even rugby - even though they're quite good at it and it's pretty big there.

mistercorporate Apr 19, 2018 11:52 AM

This has nothing to do with immigrants or wannabeism in particular cities. Immigrants are typically just more "globalized" than the average Canadian-born. Young Canadians are equally independent with their tastes, particularly in major cities. It's hard to be globalised if you're in the countryside where most radio stations are blasting oldies or 80s music or if you live in a province which strictly limits exposure to globalizing influences.

Have you guys ever watched TV in other countries? 5 out of the 7 most popular Polish TV stations basically broadcast American/British productions (often filmed in Canada) with Polish dubbing or subtitles. Poland is hardly among the most globalised of European countries. In Iceland, there is a wide recognition that English has superseded their ancient Icelandic language as the preferred medium of media absorption for Icelandic youth. In Asia, children from some of the most obscure countries are tuned into and with-it when it comes to American pop culture and nuances. The globalised and attractive elements of Americana that is.

This is why North American music, films and fashion are gaining popularity worldwide as well as basketball and cuisine. Likewise, British soccer, Thai cuisine, Japanese anime and video games consoles and European fast fashion are increasingly popular here. With globalization, the most attractive trends from around the world will gain traction with the largest media hubs and globalized cities.

North American football is just not appealing to most of the world and Hockey is only popular in a handful of cold Northern countries such as Canada,. It's just not that attractive or relatable to most of the world, as is the case with MLB. Supply and demand is rarely wrong in determining the attractiveness of various goods and concepts. If we want to roll back this dynamic and go back to dressing like hosers, grow out our mullets, eating dried bison and playing lacrosse, while lugging our equipment in our Oldsmobiles and watching crappy 1980's tv programming.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate (Post 8160143)
This has nothing to do with immigrants or wannabeism in particular cities. Immigrants are typically just more "globalized" than the average Canadian-born. (...)

North American football is just not appealing to most of the world and Hockey is only popular in a handful of cold Northern countries such as Canada,. It's just not that attractive or relatable to most of the world, as is the case with MLB. .

But are kids in other diverse high-immigration globalized countries like the U.S. and Australia writing off the locally unique sports like MLB, NFL, Aussie rules? I think you'll find that while soccer and basketball are popular and growing there, the unique national sports still retain their popularity.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate (Post 8160143)
This has nothing to do with immigrants or wannabeism in particular cities. Immigrants are typically just more "globalized" than the average Canadian-born. Young Canadians are equally independent with their tastes, particularly in major cities. It's hard to be globalised if you're in the countryside where most radio stations are blasting oldies or 80s music or if you live in a province which strictly limits exposure to globalizing influences.

Have you guys ever watched TV in other countries? 5 out of the 7 most popular Polish TV stations basically broadcast American/British productions (often filmed in Canada) with Polish dubbing or subtitles. Poland is hardly among the most globalised of European countries. In Iceland, there is a wide recognition that English has superseded their ancient Icelandic language as the preferred medium of media absorption for Icelandic youth. In Asia, children from some of the most obscure countries are tuned into and with-it when it comes to American pop culture and nuances. The globalised and attractive elements of Americana that is.

This is why North American music, films and fashion are gaining popularity worldwide as well as basketball and cuisine. Likewise, British soccer, Thai cuisine, Japanese anime and video games consoles and European fast fashion are increasingly popular here. With globalization, the most attractive trends from around the world will gain traction with the largest media hubs and globalized cities.

North American football is just not appealing to most of the world and Hockey is only popular in a handful of cold Northern countries such as Canada,. It's just not that attractive or relatable to most of the world, as is the case with MLB. Supply and demand is rarely wrong in determining the attractiveness of various goods and concepts. If we want to roll back this dynamic and go back to dressing like hosers, grow out our mullets, eating dried bison and playing lacrosse, while lugging our equipment in our Oldsmobiles and watching crappy 1980's tv programming.

While I don't really identify with the coast-to-coast majority Canadian identity that encompasses Tragically Hip/Red Green/Juno Awards/Trailer Park Boys/Peter Mansbridge/Ron and Don on Coach's Corner/Pierre Berton/the Brier/Kids in the Hall/Group of Seven/Second City/Degrassi/Rush/Strombo/Ghomeshi, etc., I know it well enough (as you can see) to find your post borderline insulting.

As if there isn't anything Canadian (except for maybe Drake and The Weeknd) that can be modern.

I've said it before on here that if the Americans and their celebrities or some rich British media mogul decided that curling was a cool sport, all the same people who diss it today would all of sudden think it's the hottest shit ever.

We're all being manipulated. The only real difference is that some of us are aware of this and some of us aren't.

osmo Apr 19, 2018 1:11 PM

This thread just shows the collective average age of the Canada forum is 45-50+.

For young people locked into social media and reddit soccer and basketball rule. They are the most accessible content wise and playing wise most young people will have exposure to basketball or soccer at school in Canada versus any other sport.

Baseball isn't as easy to set up these days, hockey has prohibitive costs, football requires too many resources and many schools don't want to go through the liability steps. Every school has a gym with a hoop and every school has a patch of grass or something close to it which are all you need to play basketball and soccer (soccer and basketball are also gender balanced in the sense girls grow up playing he same style and rules of both unlike the variety of softball or ring hockey that girls play. When they reach HS the same hoop is there and the same box with its goal box is there on the pitch. Every school that has a male basketball or soccer team likely has a girls team as well which just adds to the exposure while young).

Again NBA isn't the top dog and still trails NFL and MLB in pure terms but the NBA has a larger upside with a YOUNGER fans base that is more global and more engaged via digital means.

NBA fans these days remind me of baseball and hockey fans when I was kid. Every young person was a fan of either. These days Steph Curry has replaced Ken Griffey as the coolest guy in sports. Hell, even Stephen Curry''s (Canadian) wife has made a name for herself with a widely popular cooking show and book.*

More examples. First, if you pop open Snapcaht the bulk of sports content is always soccer and NBA. Snapchat has the youngest core user base out of all the social media platforms. Second, NBA also recently did a collaboration with streetwise brand SUPREME which is currently the most hyped and hard to get clothing wear among the youth (where are the other leagues ? I could see MLB getting wise to do a collaborative project as the did do one with the Yankees a few years ago). Third, the NBA reddit has over a million subcribers and is the most popular reddit for all the major sports (reddit is another platform with a VERY young user base).

What will happen when these kids get older, turn into adults and start to get money? What sporting products will they support and consume?

Nothing against old people but the ignorance to not see this is astounding. Of course it must be some "conspiracy" that baketball is getting popular and not the fact that younger generations are just more into it along with soccer. Many on here sound old and out of touch with what is going on with the youth.

*Odd enough that many youth, their first exposure to NBA was Steve Nash and the Suns.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 1:46 PM

Nice try to make it generational.

Rousseau is about the same age as me (mid to late 40s?) and I have no idea of elly's age. GlassCity is quite young - probably in his early 20s.

And we all have varied opinions on both sides of the debate.

Don't forget that my generation was the first one to truly embrace MLB as a "domestic" thing with the Expos and the Blue Jays. We also (well, not me personally but my generation certainly did) almost relegated the CFL to the graveyard when we became totally enamoured with the NFL. Again... this was also a generational first in Canada.

And BTW I love soccer... just in case you were wondering. Basketball, not so much.

cornholio Apr 19, 2018 1:47 PM

wrong thread....

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornholio (Post 8160223)
No idea why people are talking about race. I am talking about demographic changes from a economic point of view. How people value finite resources such as time, shops, taxes, HOUSING, planing etc. Etc. From a point of view economics are directly tied to demographics and everything that impacts us in our daily lives is tied to economics. If you take 2.4 million Vancouverites and remove them and replace them with 2.4 million Manilites everything will change, the city and how it's shaped will change and to be on topic housing prices will change, zoning will change, types of housing being built will change and everything else that is not part of this topic. And for me it will certainly not change for the better because I am not a Manilite, I weather I like it or not have different views, different tastes, different priorities and this new city wold be quite different from one that I would feel at home and comfortable in. Change is inevitable but it also can be managed and it also can be too rapid where quality of life for people like me degrades in a few short decades to the point of me not ever wanting to live there. I am happy and made a great choice and to be back on point Vancouver and Toronto realestate is worthless because I would not want to live in these cities because of where they are infrusturcrure wise and social wise etc. and because things will get oh so much worse in the coming years. There is nothing positive on the horizon for me in these cities, nothing where you can say things will get better. The cities will grow by hundreds of thousands more, infrusturcrure will end up even worse and demographics will continue to rapidly change and everything economically will change along with it and diverge from what I consider a place I way to live in.

Wrong thread maybe? :)

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 2:19 PM

More than any national group I have ever met, there is a high prevalence among Canadians of this obsession of having the best or the coolest tastes. To the exclusion of everything else.

It reminds me of someone I know who only drinks Coke, and for whom the thought of Pepsi touching her lips is about the same as drinking liquid shit.

Try putting together a group of friends to go out and see a *Canadian* movie just for fun and see what happens. Note the number of people who will immediately react and say they NEVER watch Canadian movies. NEVER EVER. No openness whatsoever to giving one a shot - not even once.

Just to make some of you guys happy, people in Quebec do this too. For certain things anyway.

Last fall when the Grey Cup was in Ottawa, there was a decent amount of media coverage on both sides of the river. Our local Radio-Canada show host was starting to talk about it, and instead of turning to the sports guy on one side, she mistakenly turned to the entertainment guy and started to talk to him about the Grey Cup. To which he immediately responded: "Oh, you picked the wrong guy to talk about the CFL. I don't know anything about the CFL or the Grey Cup. Nada. The NFL, sure, no problem. But the CFL? NOPE. NOTHING AT ALL."

Malaise.

It was almost like "eeeewww, don't let that CFL thing touch me!"

I just can't for the life of me imagine an NFL nut saying that about MLB on a Boston station, or an NBA fan saying that about March Madness...

osmo Apr 19, 2018 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160221)
Nice try to make it generational.

Rousseau is about the same age as me (mid to late 40s?) and I have no idea of elly's age. GlassCity is quite young - probably in his early 20s.

And we all have varied opinions on both sides of the debate.

Don't forget that my generation was the first one to truly embrace MLB as a "domestic" thing with the Expos and the Blue Jays. We also (well, not me personally but my generation certainly did) almost relegated the CFL to the graveyard when we became totally enamoured with the NFL. Again... this was also a generational first in Canada.

And BTW I love soccer... just in case you were wondering. Basketball, not so much.

We are likely at an age gap where when you were just ending high school I was just a small kid and just getting into sports. I can't dismiss that exposures and experiences as a child shaped my sports tastes.

This isn't to slam older folks, I just get annoyed when older folks dismiss half of the population who is younger like they don't exist. The demographics and trends go contrary and to the exact opposite of how many in this thread view the sports landscape. We keep bringing dated TV numbers as that is the 'old way' of measuring things but metrics such as social media and other points are key and critical to measure how popular a sport is. We keep using dated 'TV number' metrics when most young people don't even have a cord connected to their TV and don't get cable.

NFL is most watched sport in North America but it may not even exist in 25 years the way trends are going. This is probably the starkest example of the reality of trend shifts versus old dated metrics solely using TV numbers. You look are purely TV, NFL is king, but look at youth participation and engagement and it is cratering big time and the NFL is sweating about it internally (NFL is also the most limited in upside, where will it expand to? London, UK? It's TV numbers have peaked, it can't get any bigger than it already is. Future legalized sports betting may be the only other revenue surge/boost it can explore domestically in the USA. Every other league - CFL included - has some room to grow; NFL not so much).

Also, back to the age thing... it goes both ways... IMO young people are too dismissive of older people's work experiences, the Startup and Tech community is notorious for having a bias and hatefest on for older folks for example. End of the day both groups can learn from each other and should be able to look at their experiences with respect and learn from each other.

esquire Apr 19, 2018 3:11 PM

^ FWIW lack of growth potential is not really a major issue when it comes to the NFL. If you own an ice cream stand that clears a million dollars a year, what do you really care if business is pretty well maxed out and growing less than 1% annually? It's still an amazing business. Besides, if the NFL wanted to add 6 teams tomorrow there would be at least 25 cities prepared to fight over them.

But that said the immense legal liability from concussions, as well as the potential threat that poses to the continued existence of amateur football as we know it today, are major looming threats to the NFL's vitality as a league.

osmo Apr 19, 2018 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8160355)
^ FWIW lack of growth potential is not really a major issue when it comes to the NFL. If you own an ice cream stand that clears a million dollars a year, what do you really care if business is pretty well maxed out and growing less than 1% annually? It's still an amazing business. Besides, if the NFL wanted to add 6 teams tomorrow there would be at least 25 cities prepared to fight over them.

But that said the immense legal liability from concussions, as well as the potential threat that poses to the continued existence of amateur football as we know it today, are major looming threats to the NFL's vitality as a league.

I am not sure there are 6 markets that could afford the NFL's price of entry with the expansion fee of nearly $1 billion. It is more limited then we imagine, hence my line about the limits to growth.

These sports are a growth business. Revenues must grow. They are not happy with just maintaining what they have. My premise is that the NFL, even though it makes buckets of cash, is the most limited in how it can grow that bucket. Every other league has lots of room for upside as they can scale beyond the USA market to source different revenue streams.

JHikka Apr 19, 2018 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8160355)
But that said the immense legal liability from concussions, as well as the potential threat that poses to the continued existence of amateur football as we know it today, are major looming threats to the NFL's vitality as a league.

This is probably the most important point for the future of the NFL and football as a whole. Here's an article from the Chicago Tribune highlighting the issue:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago Tribune
All you have to do is go out to a youth football field, as I did on Sunday morning, and talk to parents and coaches.

"Just four years ago, we had so many boys signing up for football, we had five teams at this fourth-grade level," says John Herrera, a dad, software engineer and football coach of the Wheaton Rams in the Bill George Youth Football League in the western suburbs of Chicago.

"And from five teams of fourth-graders four years ago, what do we have now? One team. Just one."

Out on the field, the Wheaton Rams and the Lyons Tigers were going at it, having fun. Parents and grandparents watching, sipping lattes, a few dads nervously pacing the sidelines as dads always do, willing prowess on their sons.

"If dropping from five teams of fourth-graders to one doesn't tell you what's happening, nothing will," Herrera said. "Football is such a great game, it teaches great lessons to young men. But I've got a sense of dread for this game of football that I love."

Herrera cares about the lessons the game can teach. He and other coaches are deadly serious about instilling "heads up" tackling techniques to protect the heads of their players.

"But it's the parents," he said. "They're worried about the brain."

The NFL today is totally fine with growing franchise valuations and revenue streams still doing pretty well, but it's the long-term viability that's a bit of a concern. Youth participation takes a generation cycle (~15-20 years) to take hold and have its affect.

Osmo is correct when he says that the NFL has the lowest ceiling of any of the major professional sports. There's really no growth potential for expansion, they've priced out most markets domestically, and there's fewer and fewer youth playing (and fewer people going to games). Combine this with limited TV rights contracts and sponsors who may be wary of concussions (or disrespecting the anthem) and it's not looking overly positive on the horizon. Something will have to give if the league looks for growth in the near-term future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo
This thread just shows the collective average age of the Canada forum is 45-50+.

Message boards are definitely geared towards an older crowd...they sprung up 15-20 years ago and haven't changed much since. Young people are going to be drawn to other avenues of discussion (social media) as the older folks, us, stay here. Proof of this is in the registration dates for members who post here: Very rarely is there someone posting regularly who registered in the past five years, and most frequent posters joined the site 10+ years ago. The opinions on this board are always going to be an incredibly small sample-size of how society at large is feeling.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8160333)
We are likely at an age gap where when you were just ending high school I was just a small kid and just getting into sports. I can't dismiss that exposures and experiences as a child shaped my sports tastes.

This isn't to slam older folks, I just get annoyed when older folks dismiss half of the population who is younger like they don't exist. The demographics and trends go contrary and to the exact opposite of how many in this thread view the sports landscape. We keep bringing dated TV numbers as that is the 'old way' of measuring things but metrics such as social media and other points are key and critical to measure how popular a sport is. We keep using dated 'TV number' metrics when most young people don't even have a cord connected to their TV and don't get cable.

NFL is most watched sport in North America but it may not even exist in 25 years the way trends are going. This is probably the starkest example of the reality of trend shifts versus old dated metrics solely using TV numbers. You look are purely TV, NFL is king, but look at youth participation and engagement and it is cratering big time and the NFL is sweating about it internally (NFL is also the most limited in upside, where will it expand to? London, UK? It's TV numbers have peaked, it can't get any bigger than it already is. Future legalized sports betting may be the only other revenue surge/boost it can explore domestically in the USA. Every other league - CFL included - has some room to grow; NFL not so much).

.

I think the entertainment business (which includes pro sports broadcasting) is still struggling to properly assess, measure and cash in on live streaming and other formats that are alternatives to TV. Figuring out just how many eyeballs are paying attention to your offerings is a bit of a mess these days.

I strongly doubt that the NFL is truly dropping in popularity in the U.S. at this point. Any visit to any NFL city on a gameday will dispel any notion that that league is in any way lacking a devoted fanbase that is diverse (in terms of age, race, sex, etc.) and that shows every sign of renewing itself.

I know the seasons are structured differently, but the NBA doesn't haven't anywhere near that comprehensive civic energy except for the later rounds of its playoffs.

GlassCity Apr 19, 2018 4:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8160183)
This thread just shows the collective average age of the Canada forum is 45-50+.

For young people locked into social media and reddit soccer and basketball rule. They are the most accessible content wise and playing wise most young people will have exposure to basketball or soccer at school in Canada versus any other sport.

Baseball isn't as easy to set up these days, hockey has prohibitive costs, football requires too many resources and many schools don't want to go through the liability steps. Every school has a gym with a hoop and every school has a patch of grass or something close to it which are all you need to play basketball and soccer (soccer and basketball are also gender balanced in the sense girls grow up playing he same style and rules of both unlike the variety of softball or ring hockey that girls play. When they reach HS the same hoop is there and the same box with its goal box is there on the pitch. Every school that has a male basketball or soccer team likely has a girls team as well which just adds to the exposure while young).

Again NBA isn't the top dog and still trails NFL and MLB in pure terms but the NBA has a larger upside with a YOUNGER fans base that is more global and more engaged via digital means.

NBA fans these days remind me of baseball and hockey fans when I was kid. Every young person was a fan of either. These days Steph Curry has replaced Ken Griffey as the coolest guy in sports. Hell, even Stephen Curry''s (Canadian) wife has made a name for herself with a widely popular cooking show and book.*

More examples. First, if you pop open Snapcaht the bulk of sports content is always soccer and NBA. Snapchat has the youngest core user base out of all the social media platforms. Second, NBA also recently did a collaboration with streetwise brand SUPREME which is currently the most hyped and hard to get clothing wear among the youth (where are the other leagues ? I could see MLB getting wise to do a collaborative project as the did do one with the Yankees a few years ago). Third, the NBA reddit has over a million subcribers and is the most popular reddit for all the major sports (reddit is another platform with a VERY young user base).

What will happen when these kids get older, turn into adults and start to get money? What sporting products will they support and consume?

Nothing against old people but the ignorance to not see this is astounding. Of course it must be some "conspiracy" that baketball is getting popular and not the fact that younger generations are just more into it along with soccer. Many on here sound old and out of touch with what is going on with the youth.

*Odd enough that many youth, their first exposure to NBA was Steve Nash and the Suns.

Yeah I'm 22, and regardless I don't see how this affects the conversation. We're all in agreement that hockey is losing ground to other sports for both those born in Canada and immigrants alike. The question is more about whether this is a bad thing or not.

First, I'd challenge your premise of soccer and basketball being the most popular sports among the youth. Obviously this is regional and anecdotal, but stretching into the widest and loosest regions of my social network, I'd say that "don't watch sports" is on top, with the NFL, NHL, MLB all coming ahead of NBA and soccer in Vancouver. In Winnipeg, it seems to be NHL and CFL first, not sure what comes after that. I'll admit that I have little contact with the core immigrant groups that would be more into soccer and basketball so my perception is skewed, but I still can't imagine that if you did a survey of the entire population aged 12-18 or whatever you want to use that football or hockey wouldn't come out on top.

Now to address some of your points:

I don't see how the NBA or soccer is any more accessible content wise for the internet generation. I watch NHL, CFL and NBA and stream all occasionally, I have apps for all of them, etc.

And with regards to participation in these various sports, I've never played a game of ice hockey in my life yet I've been a fan most of my life. Also, we played a ton of street hockey in the school yard when I was little and that was very accessible - plastic stick from Canadian mufucka and a tennis ball. Football isn't the easiest sport to play either and yet i doubt it has as much trouble gaining popularity among immigrant communities in the US.

To your point about coolness and Snapchat and Supreme and what not, that's what we're talking about. Why is that allure so much more powerful than the natural cultural influence that can be produced at home? Why has that cultural influence fallen off in favour of these external influences?

All in all, I'm still confused about the actual point of your argument. We're lamenting the fact that basketball is more popular with young immigrants, you call us out of touch and proceed to state that basketball is more popular with young people? I honestly don't see where the rift is here. No one referenced a conspiracy - just if there's a culture war between Canada & hockey and external forces (US) & basketball, Canada's losing. I understand the reasons why, including those you mentioned, but also hip hop culture. But that doesn't mean we have to see that as a neutral development.

GlassCity Apr 19, 2018 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistercorporate (Post 8160143)
This has nothing to do with immigrants or wannabeism in particular cities. Immigrants are typically just more "globalized" than the average Canadian-born. Young Canadians are equally independent with their tastes, particularly in major cities. It's hard to be globalised if you're in the countryside where most radio stations are blasting oldies or 80s music or if you live in a province which strictly limits exposure to globalizing influences.

Have you guys ever watched TV in other countries? 5 out of the 7 most popular Polish TV stations basically broadcast American/British productions (often filmed in Canada) with Polish dubbing or subtitles. Poland is hardly among the most globalised of European countries. In Iceland, there is a wide recognition that English has superseded their ancient Icelandic language as the preferred medium of media absorption for Icelandic youth. In Asia, children from some of the most obscure countries are tuned into and with-it when it comes to American pop culture and nuances. The globalised and attractive elements of Americana that is.

This is why North American music, films and fashion are gaining popularity worldwide as well as basketball and cuisine. Likewise, British soccer, Thai cuisine, Japanese anime and video games consoles and European fast fashion are increasingly popular here. With globalization, the most attractive trends from around the world will gain traction with the largest media hubs and globalized cities.

North American football is just not appealing to most of the world and Hockey is only popular in a handful of cold Northern countries such as Canada,. It's just not that attractive or relatable to most of the world, as is the case with MLB. Supply and demand is rarely wrong in determining the attractiveness of various goods and concepts. If we want to roll back this dynamic and go back to dressing like hosers, grow out our mullets, eating dried bison and playing lacrosse, while lugging our equipment in our Oldsmobiles and watching crappy 1980's tv programming.

The fact that this seems natural and as no big deal to you is what we're talking about. If the NFL was suddenly dying with soccer taking its place, you can bet that Americans would not look at that so agnostically. Similarly, maybe Icelandic youth are largely consuming American media as well, but I'd be surprised if that was perceived as a positive thing there.

It's fine if globalization brings things like anime into North American culture because people tat watch it are still likely to watch local shows too. But if hockey and basketball (for example) fan bases become stratified along age or demographics, I don't think that's a good thing. Nations need common denominators, and we're losing one of our only ones.

Finally, your last paragraph about hosers and mullets is a lot of what I'm talking about. Canadian is perceived as provincial and embarrassing, the global is what's cool. This is an unhealthy dynamic to be so widespread.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8160441)
This is probably the most important point for the future of the NFL and football as a whole. Here's an article from the Chicago Tribune highlighting the issue:



The NFL today is totally fine with growing franchise valuations and revenue streams still doing pretty well, but it's the long-term viability that's a bit of a concern. Youth participation takes a generation cycle (~15-20 years) to take hold and have its affect.

Osmo is correct when he says that the NFL has the lowest ceiling of any of the major professional sports. There's really no growth potential for expansion, they've priced out most markets domestically, and there's fewer and fewer youth playing (and fewer people going to games). Combine this with limited TV rights contracts and sponsors who may be wary of concussions (or disrespecting the anthem) and it's not looking overly positive on the horizon. Something will have to give if the league looks for growth in the near-term future.
.

Sometimes I wonder if the NFL of the future won't be similar to the Running Man (remember that?) or Hunger Games.

Maybe not in the sense that players will be forced to take part, but at least that they'll be limited those willing to take on a high level of physical risk for extreme financial gain. (None of them from "good" families of course.) But the general public's appetite for the game itself is unlikely to diminish.

One could say that that's already been the case for a while in pro football, but I suspect that it may move even closer to sports like boxing and UFC when it comes to those optics.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8160476)

It's fine if globalization brings things like anime into North American culture d.

Would North Americans and other non-Japanese people around the world even know what anime is if the Japanese themselves had seen it as worthless and totally shunned it?

esquire Apr 19, 2018 4:33 PM

^ Knowing what people know now about the physical risk involved in playing football, I have to wonder why anyone would let their children participate. I think people here know that I'm a big football fan, but I don't think that I could, in good conscience, let my kids play tackle football. I can stomach hockey but football is a bridge too far.

The funny thing is many football players go on to 'brainy' careers... look no further than CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie himself. But the risk just seems so vast. I know this guy's family and he is really an embodiment of the nightmare scenario.

I think the player pool in the future will be drawn mainly from kids whose families don't know or don't care about the risks involved. Which is kind of scary considering that the game isn't getting any gentler even if awareness of concussion protocols has increased greatly.

Andy6 Apr 19, 2018 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8160183)
This thread just shows the collective average age of the Canada forum is 45-50+.

NBA fans these days remind me of baseball and hockey fans when I was kid. Every young person was a fan of either. These days Steph Curry has replaced Ken Griffey as the coolest guy in sports. Hell, even Stephen Curry''s (Canadian) wife has made a name for herself with a widely popular cooking show and book.*

Nothing against old people but the ignorance to not see this is astounding. Of course it must be some "conspiracy" that baketball is getting popular and not the fact that younger generations are just more into it along with soccer. Many on here sound old and out of touch with what is going on with the youth.

*Odd enough that many youth, their first exposure to NBA was Steve Nash and the Suns.

I have to admit I’ve never heard of Steph Curry or his wife (at least he has one; that sounds vaguely retrograde in this age of triumphal modernity). Your argument is completely circular, though: basketball is becoming popular because ... basketball is becoming popular and ... well, things that “are going on with the youth” such as the growing popularity of basketball among them. It’s not really getting us to the bottom of the phenomenon, which obviously has to do with the youth’s having been submerged in globalized mass consumer culture as dominated by American corporate interests.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 5:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy6 (Post 8160569)
I have to admit I’ve never heard of Steph Curry or his wife (at least he has one; that sounds vaguely retrograde in this age of triumphal modernity). Your argument is completely circular, though: basketball is becoming popular because ... basketball is becoming popular and ... well, things that “are going on with the youth” such as the growing popularity of basketball among them. It’s not really getting us to the bottom of the phenomenon, which obviously has to do with the youth’s having been submerged in globalized mass consumer culture as dominated by American corporate interests.

Never heard of Curry either until now.

If I were to ask the kids in my neighbourhood who the "coolest guy in sports" is, my guess on the name that would come up would be Sidney Crosby, PK Subban, and maybe some international soccer stars like Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi or maybe Neymar.

My kids aren't into sports at all and can't name any NBA players AFAIK. They do know some hockey player names and some soccer stars though.

It's the passive people who give you a good indicator of who the real big names are.

GlassCity Apr 19, 2018 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160577)
Never heard of Curry either until now.

If I were to ask the kids in my neighbourhood who the "coolest guy in sports" is, my guess on the name that would come up would be Sidney Crosby, PK Subban, and maybe some international soccer stars like Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi or maybe Neymar.

My kids aren't into sports at all and can't name any NBA players AFAIK. They do know some hockey player names and some soccer stars though.

It's the passive people who give you a good indicator of who the real big names are.

That's surprising to me. I think if I was to take a similar survey about athletes with the most clout, it would be mostly NBA stars with a couple NFL players mixed in. In Canada maybe Sidney Crosby but I think that'd be it. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant and LeBron for sure. When it comes to sport celebrity, I don't think any league does it better than the NBA.

Andy6 Apr 19, 2018 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160577)
Never heard of Curry either until now.

If I were to ask the kids in my neighbourhood who the "coolest guy in sports" is, my guess on the name that would come up would be Sidney Crosby, PK Subban, and maybe some international soccer stars like Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi or maybe Neymar.

My kids aren't into sports at all and can't name any NBA players AFAIK. They do know some hockey player names and some soccer stars though.

It's the passive people who give you a good indicator of who the real big names are.

I certainly knew of basketball and NFL stars when I was growing up. Joe Namath and Wilt Chamberlain were about the biggest celebrities in the young boy’s world at the time (along with Mohammed Ali and Evel Knievel). But they still seemed foreign and not really having that much to do with me, unlike Blue Bombers players, the Canadiens’, Leafs’ or Jets’ players, or even curling stars.

JHikka Apr 19, 2018 5:31 PM

Figured i'd do some digging on this:

Q1 2018 figures:

Twitter Followers:
NBA 27.6M
NFL 24.6M
MLB 8.34M
NHL 6.25M
MLS 3.21M
CFL 274K

Reddit Subscribers
r/NBA 1,503,596
r/NFL 764,629
r/baseball 673,812
r/hockey 544,535
r/MLS 80,982
r/CFL 9,816

Instagram followers:
NBA 27.7M
NFL 11.1M
MLB 4.2M
NHL 2.9M
MLS 902K
CFL 89.7K

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8160596)
That's surprising to me. I think if I was to take a similar survey about athletes with the most clout, it would be mostly NBA stars with a couple NFL players mixed in. In Canada maybe Sidney Crosby but I think that'd be it. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant and LeBron for sure. When it comes to sport celebrity, I don't think any league does it better than the NBA.

Maybe Quebec is different.

I suppose that boys on a high school basketball team here in Gatineau or even in Shawinigan or Rimouski might know those names and a few other NBA stars, but except for LeBron James possibly I doubt the name recognition really spills over into people who are "passive" about such things.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy6 (Post 8160597)
I certainly knew of basketball and NFL stars when I was growing up. Joe Namath and Wilt Chamberlain were about the biggest celebrities in the young boy’s world at the time (along with Mohammed Ali and Evel Knievel). But they still seemed foreign and not really having that much to do with me, unlike Blue Bombers players, the Canadiens’, Leafs’ or Jets’ players, or even curling stars.

I grew up in the Maritimes and Ontario and was never much into basketball but I knew of Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Isaiah Thomas, Dr J., Dennis Rodman, and a few others. Manute Bol, Hakeem Olajuwon. And some NCAA types like Bobby Knight, Jerry Tarkanian. Lakers coach Pat Riley...

All of this by osmosis I guess.

le calmar Apr 19, 2018 6:20 PM

The only time I hear or even talk about basketball is with my acquaintances or my step family from Toronto (most of which if not all were born and raised in Asia) or my friends in France. Other than that basketball is pretty far down the list in my everyday sports related conversations after hockey, football, baseball and soccer.

esquire Apr 19, 2018 6:30 PM

I suppose that every region has its sports preference quirks... if you're listening to a heated AM radio discussion about the CFL, there's a decent chance you might be in Saskatchewan. By the same token, if you're listening to a few workers on a break talking about tonight's NBA games, chances are you're in Toronto.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 8160674)
The only time I hear or even talk about basketball is with my acquaintances or my step family from Toronto (most of which if not all were born and raised in Asia) or my friends in France. Other than that basketball is pretty far down the list in my everyday sports related conversations after hockey, football, baseball and soccer.

Funny thing about France (and other foreign countries too). People always assume that just because we're right next to the U.S. we automatically know all about this or that American thing that they've latched onto.

So you get this French or Swedish guy who wants to chat about the NBA finals between Golden State and Indiana, and you're totally clueless...

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:12 PM

Just checked with a few office colleagues who have younger boys.

They all said the only NBA player that would register with their kids would be LeBron James. (None of the boys play basketball.)

Household names of other pro athletes that cut across kids' personal pursuits were Sidney Crosby, PK Subban, Carey Price... Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

No NFL or MLB players unless the kids happen to be really really into those sports.

megadude Apr 19, 2018 7:19 PM

Haven't really been following this thread except for the past couple of days. I'll throw in some experience from my current perspective. Which is through running office pools in a finance office in downtown TO.

Before that, I'll mention that as a kid growing up in Brampton in the late 80s through the 90s, I knew of a handful of Indian kids that followed NHL. But there were more into NBA than NHL, and this was pre-Raptors. Also was good friends with a Chinese guy and a Lebanese guy who were devout NHL guys in addition to being Jays and NFL fans, but not NBA. And for the black kids, one casually followed NHL but rest definitely leaned towards NBA.

On to the office pools. If there isn't a note beside them, then they are white. Almost all from around here, with two from Kingston, one from Ottawa and one from Sault Ste. Marie (he's into the 4 major sports but not CFL or college - also a big time bettor and bets min. $100 a game).

The ones with notes are different races, ranging from mid 20s to late 30s. And ya, immigrants or kids of immigrants skew towards basketball and soccer from this viewpoint.

NHL Team Pool
SP
JP
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
GJ
MV
PB

NHL Player Pool
EW
MF
JP
GG
RC
AR
JS late 20s jamaican
EW
PB
SA late 30s indian from india/england/NB
SP
GJ
SP
JW
GC mid 30s chinese
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german

NFL
MV
TM
SP
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
GG
GJ
PB
JP
NP

NBA
TM
MA mid 30s jewish
JL early 30s chinese/trinidadian
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
GJ
GS early 30s chinese
RB mid 20s indian
JS late 20s jamaican
JP
SS mid 20s indian
MV
GG
AN late 30s vietnamese
HS late 30s chinese

Premier League & Champions League
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
JL early 30s chinese/trinidadian
GS early 30s chinese
SA late 30s indian from india/england/NB
TM
MM late 30s jamaican/white
CT
RB mid 20s indian

MLB
JP
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
JS late 20s jamaican
MV
PB
SP
GJ

MonkeyRonin Apr 19, 2018 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160168)
But are kids in other diverse high-immigration globalized countries like the U.S. and Australia writing off the locally unique sports like MLB, NFL, Aussie rules? I think you'll find that while soccer and basketball are popular and growing there, the unique national sports still retain their popularity.


But is that not also the case in Canada? Are hockey ratings or interest or participation in Canada really in some sort of tailspin, as you seem to be implying? Or, even declining at all? Or is what is it what's actually happening is that the growth of "new" sports like basketball and soccer are simply rising at a faster rate?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160127)
I realize you're a long-time basketball fan but you're also a keen observer of society, people, Canada, etc.

So surely you know that for a lot of people, there is more to this than simply really liking basketball.


Like who? Who really sits through a 2 hour game because of some sort of deep-rooted cultural cringe that's causing an aversion to a completely different sport? Who's even cheering on this supposed demise of hockey? I think you're reading way too much into the fact that people just like basketball (and also if we're being honest, that the NBA has marketed themselves to young people far more successfully than other leagues).

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:33 PM

Regarding those office pools - Interesting that interest in the NFL is about as "white" as interest in the NHL.

I've noticed how in Canada at least interest in the NFL among younger generations of immigrant origin kids seems to have dropped off.

When I was a kid in the 80s interest in the NFL was quite high among immigrant kids. Part of a trio that almost all guys followed regardless of origin: NHL-MLB-NFL. Some were also interested in the CFL, but many were not. NBA had its fans but it was more of a niche thing.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.