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Truenorth00 Jul 12, 2022 5:52 PM

After a decade and a half of going at it, Air Canada and Emirates are forming a strategic partnership.

https://princeoftravel.com/blog/air-...c-partnership/

This is hilarious AF. I hope WestJet has learned their lesson and finally joins SkyTeam.

thenoflyzone Jul 12, 2022 5:54 PM

^
^

The bilateral doesn’t allow EK or EY to add anymore flights to Canada. Both carriers are capped at 6x weekly each to YYZ. (Currently EK isn’t using all the frequencies I believe, possibly due to crew / fleet shortages).

AC is currently 3x weekly on YYZ-DXB this month, but goes up to 4x weekly next month. Doesn’t leave much room for additional routes either, assuming they have the same limit of 6x weekly service. Not sure if they’re allowed 12x weekly, which is the total of both EK and EY. If that is the case, then yes, YVR-DXB would make sense for AC, especially with the Russian airspace closure and the temporary suspension of YVR-DEL in the summer.

This being said, AC already pushes a lot of South Asian traffic via FRA, so LH can’t be too happy with this new tie-up.

Truenorth00 Jul 12, 2022 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9673864)
Definitely a push to capture more of the Indian, Pakistan, and Bangladesh market for AC as Canada has a large Diaspora here.
Wonder if this means we will see future Dubai flights from either AC or EK in Vancouver or Calgary, or AC moving to Terminal 1 in Dubai.

This is going to be highly entertaining to watch. I can't imagine partners like LH and UA are pleased. AI should be pissed. Hopefully this prompts AI to launch more direct flights to Canada.

Truenorth00 Jul 12, 2022 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9673970)
^

The bilateral doesn’t allow EK or EY to add anymore flights to Canada. Both carriers are capped at 6x weekly each to YYZ. (Currently EK isn’t using all the frequencies I believe, possibly due to crew / fleet shortages).

AC is currently 3x weekly on YYZ-DXB this month, but goes up to 4x weekly next month. Doesn’t leave much room for additional routes either, assuming they have the same limit of 6x weekly service. Not sure about that though.

AC was the main opponent to expanding the bilat. Backed by the Eurolegacies arguing they were all entitled to the India-Canada traffic because of legacy ties between Canada and Europe or some such nonsense. Nice little pact (errr antitrust immunized Joint Venture) to fleece Indo-Canadians. But now that AC and EK have finally agreed to an appropriate split of the loot, I expect, we'll see the bilat expanded shortly.

The hilarity in this saga, was that WestJet was in Emirates' corner fighting for an expansion of the bilat and providing feed to EK at Pearson. And they just get kicked to the curb.

hollywoodcory Jul 12, 2022 6:35 PM

Looks like WS extended YYC-LHR to year-round. Now bookable once daily starting October 30th.

Zmonkey Jul 12, 2022 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9673976)
AC was the main opponent to expanding the bilat. Backed by the Eurolegacies arguing they were all entitled to the India-Canada traffic because of legacy ties between Canada and Europe or some such nonsense. Nice little pact (errr antitrust immunized Joint Venture) to fleece Indo-Canadians. But now that AC and EK have finally agreed to an appropriate split of the loot, I expect, we'll see the bilat expanded shortly.

The hilarity in this saga, was that WestJet was in Emirates' corner fighting for an expansion of the bilat and providing feed to EK at Pearson. And they just get kicked to the curb.

The other side of it is the Pakistani and Bangladeshi community in Canada which is now sitting around 400,000 people. That group was left out of AC/LH since LH doesn't fly there. This group took the ME3 or Turkish, or home carriers. People in Western Canada often connected in Seattle or San Francisco.
This opens up more opportunity for AC with that group too.
Hopefully this leads to dailies to Dubai from Toronto and either Vancouver or Calgary.

thenoflyzone Jul 12, 2022 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9673976)
But now that AC and EK have finally agreed to an appropriate split of the loot, I expect, we'll see the bilat expanded shortly.

The bilateral was expanded in 2018 already. Could be nothing happens, especially if AC can already fly 12x weekly. It's actually still in AC's interest to keep the bilateral as, if that's the case.

Of course, if WS jumps on YYC-DXB, they can eat into the weekly frequencies AC is allowed.

Zmonkey Jul 12, 2022 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9674142)
The bilateral was expanded in 2018 already. Could be nothing happens, especially if AC can already fly 12x weekly. It's actually still in AC's interest to keep the bilateral as, if that's the case.

Of course, if WS jumps on YYC-DXB, they can eat into the weekly frequencies AC is allowed.

I think it is safe to say there is a 0% chance WS jumps into Dubai.

thenoflyzone Jul 12, 2022 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9674148)
I think it is safe to say there is a 0% chance WS jumps into Dubai.

Sure, but not particularly because of this news.

Their press release from a few weeks ago, talking about going back to their LCC roots made sure of that as well.

Also, DXB is very much its own destination. You don't need onward connections to serve DXB. WS could have very well launched DXB 2 years ago. They've been applying for the slots and getting approval, but are choosing not to exercise them. It shows they were interested in the market, with or without a partner.

thenoflyzone Jul 12, 2022 8:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9674056)
Hopefully this leads to dailies to Dubai from Toronto and either Vancouver or Calgary.

Not much happened after AC and QR signed a codeshare 2 years ago when AC started serving YYZ-DOH. You don't see QR serving YVR or YYC, and neither is AC.

So it's by no means a sure bet that anything will happen here either.

Truenorth00 Jul 12, 2022 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9674056)
The other side of it is the Pakistani and Bangladeshi community in Canada which is now sitting around 400,000 people. That group was left out of AC/LH since LH doesn't fly there. This group took the ME3 or Turkish, or home carriers. People in Western Canada often connected in Seattle or San Francisco.

Even with a lot of Indians, a lot of urban centres would be multi-stop itineraries if you didn't fly with the ME3. This is why they are popular. But legacy carriers will never accept this....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9674056)
This opens up more opportunity for AC with that group too.

Yay! More Desis for AC to fleece.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9674056)
Hopefully this leads to dailies to Dubai from Toronto and either Vancouver or Calgary.

I expect we'll see AC launch 6x per week from YYZ and YVR, possibly daily. But after the bilat is renegotiated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9674142)
The bilateral was expanded in 2018 already. Could be nothing happens, especially if AC can already fly 12x weekly. It's actually still in AC's interest to keep the bilateral as, if that's the case.

The bilat was expanded. But EK is still only at 5 slots per week. They don't even have enough to fly daily. There's also that bizarre clause preventing either country from assigning more than half the slots to one carrier. I assume stuff like this will be renegotiated going forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9674142)
Of course, if WS jumps on YYC-DXB, they can eat into the weekly frequencies AC is allowed.

With only 6 widebodies in service and only 4 on the way, I imagine dedicating 2-3 to facilitate a daily to Dubai is a big ask. I imagine that WestJet has higher priorities to serve with those airframes.

nname Jul 13, 2022 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9673970)
The bilateral doesn’t allow EK or EY to add anymore flights to Canada. Both carriers are capped at 6x weekly each to YYZ. (Currently EK isn’t using all the frequencies I believe, possibly due to crew / fleet shortages).

I think the cap was 12x weekly per country, and up to 6x weekly for any carrier, but doesn't limit the destinations or size of aircraft? So if they want, they could split it to 3+3, or even 2+2+2 using the biggest aircraft available.

So theoretically, AC could run 3x weekly DXB from both YVR and YYZ with 450-seater 77W without even need to update the bilateral. Or EK could do the same too.

Truenorth00 Jul 13, 2022 1:31 AM

Every airline will try really hard to go daily where possible. That's vital to really growing loyalty of business travelers. AC would rather go 6x from Toronto than 3x each from Toronto and Vancouver.

nname Jul 13, 2022 1:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9674415)
Every airline will try really hard to go daily where possible. That's vital to really growing loyalty of business travelers. AC would rather go 6x from Toronto than 3x each from Toronto and Vancouver.

If they are code-sharing with EK, then they essentially have 9x weekly from YYZ.

AC didn't even close to be using all their allotted frequency during any time of the year. Only 3 to 4x weekly is scheduled for the summer months anyways.

And ever since the pandemic, AC seems to be more open on operating less-than daily flights to many destinations, as seen from their S22/W22/S23 schedule.

thenoflyzone Jul 13, 2022 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9674264)
The bilat was expanded. But EK is still only at 5 slots per week.

Yeah, I saw that. I saw EY is currently 6x weekly to Canada and assumed EK had the same.

So how come EY has 1 more frequency than EK then? Did they get extra-bilateral authority or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9674264)
There's also that bizarre clause preventing either country from assigning more than half the slots to one carrier. I assume stuff like this will be renegotiated going forward.

Well, if that's the case, then AC can't do much more at DXB with the current bilateral, except increase YYZ-DXB to 5 or 6x weekly, depending on what that half-limit is.

Calfan12 Jul 15, 2022 2:55 AM

Lynx Air has received its 4th delivery of Boeing 737Max 8 plane ✈️ today delivered to its main hub at Calgary YYC.

According to post on YYC Airport Spotters Facebook Group Page it was a former Norwegian Airlines Boeing 737Max 8 of the 4th plane for Lynx

https://m.facebook.com/groups/158623...1310411313971/

thenoflyzone Jul 15, 2022 12:12 PM

YUL and YVR published May 2022 numbers. YYC has for a while now, but included it here for comparison.

YVR

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

Total: 1,611,784 (73.8% of May 2019 numbers)
Dom: 964,371
Intl: 313,716
US: 333,697

Intl+US: 647,413

-------------------------------------------------

YUL

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...et_2022_EN.pdf

Total: 1,270,284 (85.5% of May 2019 number)
Dom: 478,984
Intl: 521,059
US: 270,241

Intl+US: 791,300

------------------------------------------------------------

YYC

https://www.yyc.com/en-us/media/fact...tatistics.aspx

Total: 1,264,969
Dom: 958,060
Intl: 106,132
US: 200,777

Intl+US: 306,909

Dont have May 2019 numbers for YYC, but they were probably at 90%+ of that number last May.

Zmonkey Jul 15, 2022 9:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9674264)


I expect we'll see AC launch 6x per week from YYZ and YVR, possibly daily. But after the bilat is renegotiated.



T

AC won't/can't launch YVR- DBX as long as Russia says so. AC has to reroute around Russia, EK can still fly through it. Its why AC cancelled its YVR India flights.

This is all to get more capacity to India, and will need to come from EK metal as long as the war persists.

But bilateral will need an update, but if AC asks it will happen.

thenoflyzone Jul 15, 2022 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9677476)
AC won't/can't launch YVR- DBX as long as Russia says so. AC has to reroute around Russia, EK can still fly through it. Its why AC cancelled its YVR India flights.

This is all to get more capacity to India, and will need to come from EK metal as long as the war persists.

But bilateral will need an update, but if AC asks it will happen.

1. YVR-DXB is doable, even with the Russia/Ukraine detour. It's only about an ~8.5% increase in distance. 12,750km, give or take. Well within reach of the B789. (By comparison, YVR-DEL, while avoiding Russia, is over 14,200 km.) All of this being said, yes, EK would be the better candidate for the route, but both of them could operate it.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-dxb...l&MS=wls&DU=km

2. YVR-DEL resumes later this year. The suspension is only during monsoon season in India. Very long route, coupled with unpredictable weather once in India is not a good mix. AC decided to play it safe and cancel the route for a couple of months. It will be back though. So if they are putting the B789 on a 14,200km route eastbound, then YVR-DXB would be a piece of cake.

whatnext Jul 16, 2022 1:13 AM

Why on Earth are the Liberals bringing back random Covid testing for travellers at airports? Could anything be more useless?

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/0...-air-arrivals/


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