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whatnext Jun 19, 2022 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9653416)
The Q400 was an attempt to cover the difference between the turboprop and regional jet market. The thinking being that they would scoop up a chunk of US and Europe regional flying. The problem: the Q400 was less efficient than the competing smaller, lighter turboprop (ATR 42/72) and slower/less customer favoured than a regional jet (E175/CRJ).

The US regionals preferred to use up their CRJ200s and replace them with something larger or just stop serving marginal routes. European operators have enough traffic that they can just use a larger aircraft. Regional operations are much smaller there, and decent land-based transport options exist due to the smaller distances from cities and higher density.

Canada/Australia are the best use-case for the Q400. Larger distances, smaller centres, inconvenient land transport connections.

The Q made use of any existing airframe and allowed better economics than a small regional jet. It’s also faster than the ATR which makes it well suited to long, thin regional routes in North America that couldn’t support jet service.

thenoflyzone Jun 20, 2022 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9654135)
AC's European flights from YVR are probably not a big draw for YYC and YEG. YYC at least has its own European flights, and both YYC and YEG are probably defaulted to connect in YYZ or YUL for European flights.

YVR-Europe on AC is pretty basic. 4 destinations, 3 of which are summer seasonal.

It's no surprise Alberta-Europe is often booked through YYZ or YUL. Dozens of destinations are served from each, with a decent chunk of them year round.

In other news, AC announced YVR-BKK and the resumption of YYZ(-LHR-)BOM, YYZ/YUL-LIM. (The LIM resumptions were already loaded in the schedules a few weeks ago)

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...850009846.html

casper Jun 20, 2022 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9654732)
YVR-Europe on AC is pretty basic. 4 destinations, 3 of which are summer seasonal.

It's no surprise Alberta-Europe is often booked through YYZ or YUL. Dozens of destinations are served from each, with a decent chunk of them year round.

In other news, AC announced YVR-BKK and the resumption of YYZ(-LHR-)BOM, YYZ/YUL-LIM. (The LIM resumptions were already loaded in the schedules a few weeks ago)

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...850009846.html

Having lived in Saskatoon for a number of years I always found the timing of doing a connection in Calgary and then Europe to work out to be about the same and in some cases a bit faster than a single connection in Toronto.

Many of the people on those flights out of Calgary are going to be doing onward connections.

thenoflyzone Jun 20, 2022 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9654822)
Having lived in Saskatoon for a number of years I always found the timing of doing a connection in Calgary and then Europe to work out to be about the same and in some cases a bit faster than a single connection in Toronto.

Many of the people on those flights out of Calgary are going to be doing onward connections.

Sure. As long as your final destination is LHR or FRA. If you were, however, flying to say ATH, BCN, NCE, VIE (and the list goes on), you won’t find anything quicker than YYZ/YUL.

SignalHillHiker Jun 20, 2022 9:31 PM

A friend is getting married in Halifax this coming weekend. Both families are enormous. More than a week of events. There will be multiple hundreds of people flying in from elsewhere in Canada, Colombia, and India. We're all flying up on Friday. Anyhow, she just sent an email blast to everyone who hasn't arrived yet warning them to not check any baggage if they're flying through Pearson, as basically everyone who did hasn't gotten their luggage.

I don't think we have to pass through Pearson (I didn't book the flight), but knowing Canada, maybe. :haha:

thenoflyzone Jun 20, 2022 9:41 PM

^which airline(s)?

That’s an airline/baggage handling company issue, mostly. It sounds like an isolated event.

If it was AC, there was a lot of IRROPS last week, especially thursday evening at YUL, and therefore by extension at YYZ.

SignalHillHiker Jun 20, 2022 9:49 PM

No idea. I imagine it'll come up in conversation once we're there and we'll learn more.

zahav Jun 20, 2022 10:45 PM

The BKK announcement is amazing for YVR, a great addition and being the only non-stop from North America to Thailand, I really hope it's a success.

MONTREAL, June 20, 2022 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada announced today the expansion of its international network with the addition of Bangkok, Thailand, the carrier's first non-stop service to South-East Asia. The airline will also be resuming flights to Mumbai, its second destination in the strategic India market. Air Canada's seasonal service to Bangkok will operate from its trans-Pacific hub at Vancouver International Airport, while the carrier's Mumbai flights will operate from Toronto via London-Heathrow. Both routes are subject to receiving final government approvals.

"We are extremely pleased to be launching our first non-stop service to South-East Asia this winter, the only one between North America and Thailand. Thailand is a popular leisure destination for Canadians and this new service will give Aeroplan members exciting opportunities to both earn and redeem their points. For further convenience, our Bangkok flights will connect to our extensive domestic and trans-border network giving customers added seamlessness and choice when travelling," said Mark Galardo, Senior Vice President, Network Planning and Revenue Management, at Air Canada.

nname Jun 21, 2022 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9654961)
The BKK announcement is amazing for YVR, a great addition and being the only non-stop from North America to Thailand, I really hope it's a success.

Every time I took the AC flight to TPE, I saw many people connecting to TG flight to Thailand at TPE... They even had a special line at the transfer counter for it. I guess these passengers can now take the direct flight since AC no longer flies to TPE this winter.

casper Jun 21, 2022 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9654886)
Sure. As long as your final destination is LHR or FRA. If you were, however, flying to say ATH, BCN, NCE, VIE (and the list goes on), you won’t find anything quicker than YYZ/YUL.

Historically that has not always been the case. Surprising in some cases it is actually faster to do a stop in Calgary and in LHR or FRA instead of a single stop in YYZ or YUL. It comes down to how well AC times the connection in Toronto.

Depends on the time of year and how frequently they are flying between YXE and YYZ.

Calfan12 Jun 21, 2022 12:31 PM

Currently I see only 4 WestJet Boeing 787 flight ✈️ routes planned for this upcoming winter so far.

Calgary YYC- London Gatwick ,UK
Calgary- Kahului OGG, Hawaii
Calgary- Toronto YYZ

Toronto- London Gatwick,UK

*Though changes are still possible*.

hollywoodcory Jun 21, 2022 12:54 PM

WS hasn't updated its Winter schedule yet. I suspect the 787s will be used as they were this past winter. (CUN / PVR / OGG).

It sounds like they got LHR slots too, so perhaps YYC-LHR gets extended year-round.

Dominion301 Jun 21, 2022 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9655236)
Currently I see only 4 WestJet Boeing 787 flight ✈️ routes planned for this upcoming winter so far.

Calgary YYC- London Gatwick ,UK
Calgary- Kahului OGG, Hawaii
Calgary- Toronto YYZ

Toronto- London Gatwick,UK

*Though changes are still possible*.

I'm sure there will be a domestic turn or two this winter. Also, what about YVR-LGW?

hollywoodcory Jun 21, 2022 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9655314)
I'm sure there will be a domestic turn or two this winter. Also, what about YVR-LGW?

YVR-LGW is seasonal.

Dominion301 Jun 21, 2022 4:18 PM

YOW's May pax stats:

Sector / May-21 / May-22 / % Change
Dom: 21,599 / 247,060 / +1043.8%
TB: 0 / 15,534 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 21,599 / 262,594 / +1115.8%

Sector / YTD 2021 / YTD 2022 / % Change
Dom: 117,426 / 796,798 / +578.6%
TB: 0 / 48,565 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 42,722 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 117,426 / 888,085 / +656.3%

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector Apr-21 / May-21 / % Change
Dom: 187,290 / 247,060 / +31.9%
TB: 12,288 / 15,534 / +26.4%
Int'l: 8,395 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 207,973 / 262,594 / +26.3%
Avg/Day: 6,932 / 8,471 / +22.2% May 2022 = 60.5% of the 2019 average daily pax count and is +9.9% vs April 2022 and +17.7% vs March 2022

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2020
Dom: 1,823,322 / +76.7%
TB: 59,807 / -63.3%
Int'l: 58,319 / -65.4%
TTL: 1,941,448 / +42.4%

thenoflyzone Jun 21, 2022 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9655004)
Historically that has not always been the case. Surprising in some cases it is actually faster to do a stop in Calgary and in LHR or FRA instead of a single stop in YYZ or YUL. It comes down to how well AC times the connection in Toronto.

Depends on the time of year and how frequently they are flying between YXE and YYZ.

I went on flightconnections.com, and tried YXE to ATH, BCN, LIS, MAD, VIE, ZRH, MUC, TLS, NTE, and all of them were quickest via YUL.

Outside of LHR or FRA, I found 1 route that was quicker via YYC. Ironically it was CDG. It was 1 minute quicker. 10h08 vs 10h09 total travel time. LHR and FRA are only a couple of minutes quicker than YUL as well, so those aren't necessarily better via YYC either. You have multiple dailies to LHR, FRA and CDG from YUL. That's not the case at YYC.

In general, AC's afternoon departure from YXE to YUL is well timed for onward international connections to Europe. It's the best option, if you want to save time. This being said, AC has 1 daily flight YXE-YUL, and 3 to YYZ. So it's not always about saving time. Sometimes you need to think about IRROPS too. A lot of passengers don't, opting for the tightest connection, and then get stuck at their connecting location wondering what went wrong.

Also, from what ace.yyc seems to be saying about YYC, the connection experience you will get at YUL is light years ahead of the one at YYC. Especially with AC. YYZ is bad now due to staff shortages, but they should sort themselves out soon enough as well.

casper Jun 21, 2022 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9655653)
I went on flightconnections.com, and tried YXE to ATH, BCN, LIS, MAD, VIE, ZRH, MUC, TLS, NTE, and all of them were quickest via YUL.

Outside of LHR or FRA, I found 1 route that was quicker via YYC. Ironically it was CDG. It was 1 minute quicker. 10h08 vs 10h09 total travel time. LHR and FRA are only a couple of minutes quicker than YUL as well, so those aren't necessarily better via YYC either. You have multiple dailies to LHR, FRA and CDG from YUL. That's not the case at YYC.

In general, AC's afternoon departure from YXE to YUL is well timed for onward international connections to Europe. It's the best option, if you want to save time. This being said, AC has 1 daily flight YXE-YUL, and 3 to YYZ. So it's not always about saving time. Sometimes you need to think about IRROPS too. A lot of passengers don't, opting for the tightest connection, and then get stuck at their connecting location wondering what went wrong.

Also, from what ace.yyc seems to be saying about YYC, the connection experience you will get at YUL is light years ahead of the one at YYC. Especially with AC. YYZ is bad now due to staff shortages, but they should sort themselves out soon enough as well.

Not certain about now but historically the YUL or YOW flight was only offered in the summer. Some years it would be to YOW and other years it is YUL.

I have been on the YYC-YXE flight a number of times when they have held the flight for connecting customers. They will only do that for a short period of time since there are almost no onward connections happening in YXE.

Just now they do actually have some good connection times in YYZ.

thewave46 Jun 21, 2022 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9655653)
I went on flightconnections.com, and tried YXE to ATH, BCN, LIS, MAD, VIE, ZRH, MUC, TLS, NTE, and all of them were quickest via YUL.

Outside of LHR or FRA, I found 1 route that was quicker via YYC. Ironically it was CDG. It was 1 minute quicker. 10h08 vs 10h09 total travel time. LHR and FRA are only a couple of minutes quicker than YUL as well, so those aren't necessarily better via YYC either. You have multiple dailies to LHR, FRA and CDG from YUL. That's not the case at YYC.

In general, AC's afternoon departure from YXE to YUL is well timed for onward international connections to Europe. It's the best option, if you want to save time. This being said, AC has 1 daily flight YXE-YUL, and 3 to YYZ. So it's not always about saving time. Sometimes you need to think about IRROPS too. A lot of passengers don't, opting for the tightest connection, and then get stuck at their connecting location wondering what went wrong.

Also, from what ace.yyc seems to be saying about YYC, the connection experience you will get at YUL is light years ahead of the one at YYC. Especially with AC. YYZ is bad now due to staff shortages, but they should sort themselves out soon enough as well.

I would be curious if the airline makes a difference.

Transiting YYZ has always been pretty easy if one stayed on AC. You're behind security the whole way, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe US Customs can be a bit of a zoo at Pearson. I can't properly say if Westjet works as seamlessly, as I've never connected with them at YYZ.

If I've a general set of rules for flying, it's mostly about minimizing the chance for problems.

1. Most direct flight possible.
2. Stay on one airline as much as possible. Failing that, stay on one airline alliance as much as possible.
3. Transit the primary airline's hubs if connecting. I've had planes go tech, so if you're flying AC for instance, chances are you can get another one easily in YVR, not so much at LAX.
4. Enter the US at the earliest juncture, if possible. Bouncing around Canada and US pre-clearance at the major Canadian hubs can be a pain.
5. Avoid transiting third countries (Schengen is one country for the sake of argument here)
6. For very long flights, try and minimize excessive connection/flight time. Sure, that $100 saved looks tempting now, but the 8 hour layover in Hong Kong will suck, because you will have been flying for well over a dozen at that point. The amount of suck increases exponentially as one gets past the 8 hour mark.

thenoflyzone Jun 21, 2022 9:18 PM

YUL finally posted April 2022 numbers:

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...et_2022_EN.pdf

Total: 1,128,380 +849%
International+transborder was 735,333 (majority non-US), that's 65.2% of total traffic that month.

Also, compared to April 2019 numbers, we are at 72% traffic and increasing. So very encouraging. At this rate, we should hit 2019 numbers for 2023.

--------------------------------------------------------------

YVR also has April 2022 numbers.

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

Total: 1,377,263 +626%
International +transborder was 601,058 (the majority to the US), 43.6% of total traffic.

Compard to April 2019 numbers, YVR is at 66%.

------------------------------------------------------------------

YYC had April 2022 posted a long time ago (they even have May posted already) but included it here for comparison's sake.

Total: 1,061,544 +406%
International+transborder was 322,713 (majority to the US).

hollywoodcory Jun 22, 2022 12:33 AM

Here is YYC May stats:

Domestic: 958,060 +453.8% (YTD: 3,338,823 +246.97%)
Transborder: 200,777 +1455.6% (YTD: 787,101 +934.48%)
International: 106,132 +2961.2% (YTD: 504,271 +ALOT)

May 2022 Total: 1,264,969 +565.7%
2022 Year-to-Date: 4,630,915 +332.54%


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