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Azndragon837 Jul 24, 2007 3:41 AM

I am a College of Design graduate - School of Planning (c/o 2007 baby!), and I remember when I was in Architecture the first few years before my switch to Planning - all the nice little stores I used to enjoy at the funky little Arches, like Dave's, Pita Pit, Mai' Island, Restaurant Mexico. Now that most of those restaurants have moved into new locales in Tempe, and I am now at Scottsdale, I really am just focusing on Tempe's development using this forum as a place to soak in news. I don't frequent Tempe much anymore after I left ASU and my internship with the City.

My stand - I support Dave and his little hot dog stand, and I wasn't a big fan of University Square anyways, because I was skeptical with the condos and the hoopla over the development. But, now that I see it, this whole situation had been dragging on forever. We really need to move on....that dirt lot is annoying. I don't know who to support anymore. I have been watching on the sidelines for sometime, and I will support whatever comes into Tempe's Downtown. Whatever comes in, it will transform a downtown into a beaming beacon of the Valley.

-Andrew

SunDevil Jul 24, 2007 10:59 AM

Woah, I though my comment was fairly reasonable. I was contrasting the disappointment I would feel to see a locally owned and operated business being driven out, with my personal feeling toward that particular establishment. I was devastated to see the College Street Deli close up since it was one of my favorite lunch spots and often I would run into one of my favorite professors there. Dave's is not like that for me since I think the food does not live up to the cost, basically it doesn't taste good enough for me to pay almost double of what I can pay for a similar product. College Deli, though a little more pricey than subway, tasted better and I was willing to pay the $.50-1.00 more for it.

HooverDam Jul 24, 2007 11:49 AM

Don I always love your posts, but that last one with multiple Star Trek references was a winner :D Please bring up Star Trek in all of your posts, I loved it.

sundevilgrad Jul 24, 2007 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer (Post 2967610)
When did you graduate? 1980? You are out of touch with what is going on at the University today so I wouldn't get into it if I were you sir. Things have changed alot since you were going to school then. All of my friends eat at pita pit and I don't think i've had one that is a regular patron to Dave's except the bum that was drinking coke at the table next to me when I was there.

LOL, that's pretty funny. I graduated in 2004, live in 85281 and frequent downtown Tempe and ASU. My response to some of your rants:

Dave's is expensive... When I went down there last week you could get a dog, fries and a coke for $6, just about the same price you would pay for a "value" meal anywhere.

Dave's isn't good... I can understand this, if you don't like hotdogs. Judging by your affinity for Pita Pit that probably isn't that far off. Here's a little advice: If you like Mediteranian cusine go to the Phoenicia Cafe next to Mosque or Pita Jungle on Apache or Haji Babas on Apache, each one is a million times better than McDonalds in Pita. BTW, if you've never tried Dave's, I guarantee it's one of the best dogs you'll ever have. (Oh yeah, if you think Dave's is expensive just wait until Uni Square get's developed. Guess who pays for it? Not the developers. You.)


Look, I want to see Uni Square as much as the next skyscraper junkie, but what's right is what's right. Pay Dave and move along.

azsunsurfer Jul 24, 2007 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundevilgrad (Post 2969203)
LOL, that's pretty funny. I graduated in 2004, live in 85281 and frequent downtown Tempe and ASU. My response to some of your rants:

Dave's is expensive... When I went down there last week you could get a dog, fries and a coke for $6, just about the same price you would pay for a "value" meal anywhere.

Dave's isn't good... I can understand this, if you don't like hotdogs. Judging by your affinity for Pita Pit that probably isn't that far off. Here's a little advice: If you like Mediteranian cusine go to the Phoenicia Cafe next to Mosque or Pita Jungle on Apache or Haji Babas on Apache, each one is a million times better than McDonalds in Pita. BTW, if you've never tried Dave's, I guarantee it's one of the best dogs you'll ever have. (Oh yeah, if you think Dave's is expensive just wait until Uni Square get's developed. Guess who pays for it? Not the developers. You.)


Look, I want to see Uni Square as much as the next skyscraper junkie, but what's right is what's right. Pay Dave and move along.

I didn't mean to insult you and yes I have eaten at Haji Babas, it's ok, I've had better hot dogs and I honestly can't wait till I have some higher end retail near campus instead of going all the way to Scottsdale, Tempe is in desperate need of some higher end retail.

SethAZ Jul 25, 2007 4:22 AM

The land just south of the new arts center off Rio Salado and north of 1st st has been cleared. There used to be an old, single level house (shack) right there. I didn't have my camera with me or I would have got some pics. The sign said it was for Art Park.

There still seems to be no activity where the Armory (or Stadium Towers, or whatever it is called) is supposed to be. I remember reading that construction was supposed to start in May. There were still cars parked over there tonight.

desertdj Jul 27, 2007 4:41 PM

Streetcar could see rebirth in Tempe, stir downtown business
 
I would love to see this in Tempe. Way to go Tempe, always the leader in the Valley...

Streetcar could see rebirth in Tempe, stir downtown business
Kerry Fehr-Snyder
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 26, 2007 05:02 PM

It's a throwback to yesteryear, but transportation experts and a prominent Tempe businessman think the time may be right to reintroduce electric streetcars to Valley streets.

Tempe is taking a lead in considering a modern streetcar line like that in Portland, Ore., to move commuters more efficiently than city buses do today and revitalize downtown businesses.

Valley Metro Rail has hired transportation consultant HDR Inc. to study mass transit options, including adding streetcar lines that would feed into its 20-mile light-rail system being built through parts of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa. Metro is scheduled to open in December 2008.

The two-year, $3.4 million study known as an "alternatives analysis" will focus on ways to serve Tempe's north-south transportation corridor.

The study area spans generally from Tempe Town Lake south to Chandler Boulevard and from Kyrene to Price roads.

Marc Soronson,HDR's project manager for the study, said streetcars are being considered along with traditional bus service and extending the primarily east-west light-rail line.

The various modes are being considered to attract federal matching funds for the system.

Electric streetcars were introduced to Phoenix in 1893. Two years later, they replaced all the horse-drawn cars in the area.

But by 1940, Phoenix had decided to replace all its streetcars with buses.

Modern streetcars have become a popular idea in at least 20 cities, Soronson said.

Best known among them is the Portland streetcar system, which began operating in July 2001 and is credited for revitalizing an abandoned warehouse area known as the Pearl District.

Streetcars are different from San Francisco's cable cars, which pull cars up steep hills by grabbing underground cables. Instead, streetcars use overhead electric wires and run on tracks that aren't buried as deeply as those needed for light-rail lines.

Streetcar lines can share the road with automobiles so they require less dedicated roadway than light-rail lines. They also can be laid shallower than light-rail lines. Crews bury streetcar lines only a few feet below a roadway's surface, which means fewer underground utility lines are displaced.

Stan Nicpon, owner of three Pizzeria Uno, with locations in Tempe, Mesa and Phoenix, has been pushing the streetcar idea for about 18 months.

Nicpon was in Portland this week to get a firsthand look at its operation.

"I have been tenacious on this project. I think from a very, very selfish perspective," he said.

Nicpon said he believes a similar system could solve downtown Tempe's parking problems, traffic congestion and give residents in south Tempe a reason to come into the downtown area.

HDR's Soronson said although his study will take into account all modes of mass transit, including bus rapid transit and light-rail extensions, streetcars are becoming a viable option.

"There definitely is a resurgence" in streetcars, he said. "We've seen a tremendous amount of interest in them because the economic development patterns around streetcars are just incredible."

PhxSprawler Jul 27, 2007 6:47 PM

I believe any form of public transportation is great, especially when it has the potential to increase mobility, prevent drunk driving, and reduce traffic congestion.

I hope the proposals can obtain state/federal funding without upsetting the neighbors without lightrail or any form of public transit (Chandler, Gilbert, Buckeye, Glendale, Scottsdale, etc. )

combusean Jul 27, 2007 7:13 PM

^ The likely choice for that seems like Rural Rd, in fact, there's a map somewhere that throws them right there with a slight dogleg out on the UP Kyrene railroad branch.

Isn't full on light rail better for Scottsdale Rd/Rural Rd... from Chandler Fashion Center to the Airpark?

PhxSprawler Jul 27, 2007 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean (Post 2975949)

Isn't full on light rail better for Scottsdale Rd/Rural Rd... from Chandler Fashion Center to the Airpark?


That would make too much sense. Isn't Scottsdale opposed to light rail going through their city?

HooverDam Jul 27, 2007 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxSprawler (Post 2975956)
That would make too much sense. Isn't Scottsdale opposed to light rail going through their city?

Just through Old Town I believe, so it would have to dog leg over onto Goldwater or Drinkwater. Its stupid they don't want light rail clashing with the Old Western look of Old Town, because apparently people hitching their Bentleys to a post is super authentic.

vertex Jul 27, 2007 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 2976044)
Its stupid they don't want light rail clashing with the Old Western look of Old Town, because apparently people hitching their Bentleys to a post is super authentic.

LOL!

Azndragon837 Jul 28, 2007 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 2976044)
Just through Old Town I believe, so it would have to dog leg over onto Goldwater or Drinkwater. Its stupid they don't want light rail clashing with the Old Western look of Old Town, because apparently people hitching their Bentleys to a post is super authentic.

Haha, funny. I think Light Rail will be awesome if it goes on Drinkwater or Goldwater. I would prefer Drinkwater, since it passes by the City Hall complex, the library, the museums, and eventually connecting to the Waterfront and Fashion Square when the road connects back with Scottsdale just south of Camelback. The Galleria office complex is on Drinkwater, and so are several office buildings near Indian School. Very ideal route.

If Drinkwater becomes the route, I can take the train from 19th Avenue & Camelback (2 miles east of where I live), do a park-and-ride, and take the train to my work at Drinkwater & Indian School Road (City Hall). Whohoo!

-Andrew

desertdj Jul 28, 2007 11:30 PM

Federal funding should be available for public transit for any city. If Gilbert or Scottsdale doesn't feel they need a streetcar system then they shouldn't be upset. I think the city of Tempe is the only one dense enough to support this right now. Downtown Phoenix could use it but they already have light rail down the middle of the city and there isn't much development really outside of walking distance of the light rail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhxSprawler (Post 2975895)
I believe any form of public transportation is great, especially when it has the potential to increase mobility, prevent drunk driving, and reduce traffic congestion.

I hope the proposals can obtain state/federal funding without upsetting the neighbors without lightrail or any form of public transit (Chandler, Gilbert, Buckeye, Glendale, Scottsdale, etc. )


phxazguy Jul 31, 2007 2:06 AM

Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

HooverDam Jul 31, 2007 2:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxazguy (Post 2981060)
Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

Huh? Old Town Scottsdale and Mill Ave are probably the two most walkable places in the Valley, always full of people walking and milling about. I was doing stand up at the Open Mic on Sunday and there were lots of people in clubs, street side cafes, shopping, etc in Old Town.

oliveurban Jul 31, 2007 4:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxazguy (Post 2981060)
Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

Not to beat a dead (and off-topic) horse, but, downtown Scottsdale (which includes Old Town), is one of the most vibrant areas in the Phoenix area - especially after dark. The area is practically ground zero for the area's 'big' nightlife scene (regardless if it's offerings happen to be your cup 'o tea, or not).

NorthScottsdale Jul 31, 2007 6:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxazguy (Post 2981060)
Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

sorry to keep beating this, but it seems you were blind when you went there. these "cheap" stores definatly arent cheap they are just in the historic old original buildings which i actually like. and there are always people. whether you like scottsdale or not, other places could definetly take some lessons from scottsdale. and the nightlife cannot be beat anywhere else in the valley. except tempe is a pretty close match

Downtown_resident Jul 31, 2007 3:33 PM

Actually, the faux-western Old Town is not historic. Scottsdale largely razed its historic townsite, I believe in the 1970's, to build the old west-inspired structures that comprise the current downtown. Old Town now is an interesting mix of upscale galleries, interesting restaurants and bars and-- as phxazguy mentioned-- several cheesy "scorpion bola tie" tourist trap stores. There is definitely a lot going on there, although personally I'll pass on the "scene" in Scottsdale in favor of hanging out at The Roosevelt or Lost Leaf any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

PhxSprawler Jul 31, 2007 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phxazguy (Post 2981060)
Do people even go to old town Scottsdale? Every time I've been there I've only seen a bunch of old western art stores and cheap shops with no people around. If the place isn't that historical than they should redevelop it.

It is still one of the two places I always take friends from out of state to see when in town for their first time. The other is Tempe.

I agree though, it does seem pretty dead during the day. Thursday nights for the weekly Art Walk and the clubs on Friday and Saturday are bumpin!


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