LOL! You used this claim once before when attempting to defend the pathetic state of roads in B.C.

:shrug: it’s the truth though

Roads in Quebec are the worst I’ve ever driven. Especially between Montreal and Sorel.

Try driving a secondary highway in Saskatchewan if you really want to see what bad highways look like.

Stats Canada started compiling info on national infrastructure in 2016 by asking provinces, municipalities, etc. to provide info on their roads, etc. The percentage of Quebec roads rated as "very poor" or "poor" is easily the worst in the nation. I believe the percentage is twice as high as the national average. Quebec blames it on 30+ years of corruption where they paid way too much for contracts b/c of kickbacks, bribes, etc. New Brunswick also rated their roads as being very bad.

What's most interesting is that Ontario and Alberta account for nearly 50% of the nations roads which make up about 25% of the nation's road network.

And how do traffic volumes on that section of the I-70 compare to the TCH?

I don't disagree that we should invest money in the TCH, but the claims people make that every other country would have built a freeway through the mountains are not backed up with any empirical evidence. Primarily because there are few good comparisons.

If anything, US might be the only reasonable (not necessary good) comparison simply because everywhere else that has freeways by or through mountains also has tax rates that are ridiculously high by North American standard. :shrug:

It's more population density than taxes I would think. Imagine if Canada fewer road kms with the same budget, our roads would be better.

I was just looking at the E25 north of Genoa. Looks like an epic road, and it almost looks alien, like can you imagine a Canadian government ever commiting to build all that at once? But the return on investment there per vehicle km is probably much higher.

Ideally it’s a major thoroughfare plus at most 2 EDR’s. For example, TCH through Interior BC east of Salmon Arm is bad for the lack of EDR. As for the Prairies, time to take out some of the range roads which are in bad conditions anyway?

As for E25 north of Genoa, 6 lanes through the mountains? I wonder if EU helped Italy with that.

I was attempting to improve the connection between SFPR and TCH (south of which it becomes Pacific Highway) today. Here's what I've got:
https://imgur.com/tgDFjYI
For comparison, one can search "Barnston Island" on google map and scroll down to look.

Notes:
(1) Traffic heading from TCH W to 15S uses the new ramp from TCH W to Golden Ears Way W, then loop back to 15S. Heading from 15N to TCH E, one will turn right onto GEW E then use the ramp from there to access TCH E. In fact, now that I think about it, I should have closed the intersection of GEW with 180th Street altogether, and join the 2 sections of 96 Avenue west of the cloverleaves.
(2) (IMO) The proximity between GEW and TCH makes weaving inevitable unless a 2+2+2+2 express-collector system be employed on that segment of Pacific Highway. I think ssiguy will love that idea.
(3) I wasn't able to include SFPR @ 104 Avenue (Golden Ears Connector) in the picture. (4) I tried drawing things to scale but probably did not.

Great idea.
In my opinion the whole area needs to be redone. I am talking about the whole road network - from Pacific Highway to Golden Ears connector and GE way.
180 str for example should not have left turns.

Golden Ears connector and GE way needs overpass without left turn lines. Drivers can use 192 str. for access.
Unfortunately nothing will be done. Highway 1 is the only real highway in the area with 2.2 million people which by every standard is insane.

Looks good, but please no cloverleafs. What happened in the 50's should stay in the 50's.

Use 192nd Street to access the connector and in turn GEW via an interchange?
IMO, it takes an Ontarian in B.C.’s highway department to revamp that area, besides Second Narrows Bridge, Lions Gate Bridge, Massey Tunnel, Okanagan Connector, Highway 97 from Prince George to border (in case Washington wanna expand it), TCH, etc.

Honestly though, if I were in charge, I would lose my cool and expropriate every single property in Barnston and in Anniedale.
It’s difficult to design anything else with that kind of distance, but I can try.

Assuming that vehicles coming down from SFPR will use the connector to reach GEW, we may not need the cloverleaf from Pacific Highway South to GEW E. Instead, where TCH E exits onto Pacific Highway, we will have 3 lanes, the left one to Pacific Highway N, the middle one to flyover TCH and Barnston Road to meet GEW, and the right one onto Pacific Highway S. In that case, we can do a Parclo at GEW with Pacific Highway freeflowing. I would even exclude the cloverleaf from GEW W to Pacific Highway S from the traffic lights.

As for SFPR to the connector, I would do a flyover from SFPR E to GEC E and from GEC W and put 2 massive roundabouts at 177A Street and 179 Street (in addition to the ones drawn). Since they’re by the rail, this is how they’ll operate -
Each direction will have a traffic light. When there’s no train, lights on all sides will flash yellow, but if there’s one coming, the lights on the cross intersections will go red.
Edit: What am I saying, RIRO’s the way to go. In fact, we can just get rid of the name Golden Ears altogether and sign the connector and the eastern portion of GEW Highway 17 all the way to Maple Ridge. GEW between the 2 disjoint sections of 96 Ave can just be renamed 96 Ave. Highway 15 as the number can be extended further north.

See if you two can follow. Thanks for the inputs. :)

Totally agree. :yeahthat:
The piecemeal 2km segments are getting frustrating after all these years. Not even close to addressing what was required 40 years ago. :brickwall:

Surley we can build one interstate level freeway seeing as the US has built 100,000s of kms worth.
At the very least, let's connect our 3rd, 4th, & 5th largest metros with such (rather than the current goat trails).

^ really the QE2 is about 30 years behind in terms of what it should be also. It should be 3 lanes the whole way and those at grade crossings should be removed. Then it would be a proper freeway.

^Agree completely.

Now what if the town of Sorrento also pushes a bit harder for a TCH bypass... As for Salmon Arms, does it want a TCH bypass too?

But yea good job on Peachland for holding out.

Coquihalla Pass & Okanagan Connector Interchange Remade
 

https://imgur.com/gallery/nZEJQOE

Last night when I was a bit buzzed, I drew this in half an hour. Here are the modifications to the current mess:

(1) new exit ramp from Coquihalla Pass (Kamloops direction) to Okanagan Connector to take out the left turn

(2) ramp from Okanagan Connector to Coquihalla Pass (Kamloops direction) moved back by a few hundred meters to make room for (3), which is...

(3)* flyover ramp from Okanagan Connector to Coquihalla Pass (Vancouver direction) to take out the left turn

(4)** realigned eastbound lanes of Okanagan Connector to make the turn from Coquihalla Pass (Vancouver direction) to Merritt safer

(5)&(6)*** new service roads and median barrier for Okanagan Connector

* It will first go under Coquihalla Pass then over Okanagan Connector.

** I realized after the fact that this was a bit excessive and that I only needed to add the exit ramp from Coquihalla Pass (Vancouver direction) to Okanagan Connector (Merritt direction). Oh well...

*** In reality, there are service roads to the south too...

They should've really built that 97C connection from Aspen Grove to about the Comstock Road interchange on Hwy 5 as first envisioned. I think it's still under future consideration or otherwise they would've done the upgraded 4-laned 5A/97C to proper freeway standards.

Knowing how B.C. cheapens out though, if it even makes that interchange free-flowing between the 2 freeways, it’s already pretty good. Then it remains to add service roads and median barriers.

When it comes to the safety of drivers and moving goods efficiently to port B.C. obviously doesn't care. What are they going to do next to save a few bucks? Stop putting lane markers on roads?

I remember when Apsen Grove to Merritt was a two lane highway. At least it’s all twinned now.

It’d be nice to shave 20 mins off the trip to Vancouver by doing that connection you suggested but I bet that 20 mins would cost a lot.

Just did 3000km’s on mostly BC highways, Some stretches in the Kootenays from the AB border to Creston need attention but overall through the Okanagan and Cariboo they’re in good shape. The Yellowhead from Edmonton to Jasper is in deplorable condition.

I hope my proposal covers everything then. :D

It’s been a while since I drove through that intersection, IIRC to head east towards Kelowna from Vancouver you flew under the overpass, made a 180 degree turn to a stop sign (or maybe a signal ?) then turned left. Is it still that way now ?

When I lived in Richmond, the eastern most I’ve been to, by car, was Harrison Spring. :haha: (I didn’t have a full license, let alone a car, back in B.C.)

My sole reference is google map satellite view. :haha: That’s how I drew the other few interchanges too.

I just google earth’d it and yes it’s that same as it’s been since the 90’s

There were always a lot of wrecks at that exit because people would be hauling down that big hill into Merritt, take the exit but be unprepared for the sharp curve, especially in winter time. They obviously have room for a proper interchange there, I wonder why it hasn’t been done yet.

It’s too bad you didn’t get to explore BC more. There are some exceptional drives that showcase the province’s natural beauty. We just did one of my personal favourites, Hwy 6 up the Slocan Valley through Nakusp and up over the Monashees to Vernon. It’s both a natural scenery lover and a driving enthusiasts dream. I highly recommend it :)

Well, they kind of already do. So many city roads and highways have crappy water-based paint on the lane lines that wash away really fast and are damn near impossible to see at night. Lots of roads also have missing or non-existent cat's eyes lane reflectors too.

Merritt, Merritt... Will the people there ever think there’s merit in making that interchange free flowing... Will they ever think there’s no merit in stopping the traffic...
If I ever do a cross country trip, I will do it after KHC Phase 4 is completed. ;)

B.C. really wants people to teleport huh.

I always wondered why they don't use the plastic line like they do here in Edmonton. Makes much more sense there than here.

You beat me to the punch. The Lower Mainland and Sea-to-Sky are near-deathtraps during the wet winter season, especially. It verges on criminal negligence on the bureaucrats part.

Speaking on that, here in Ontario, the ministry of transportation was almost held criminal responsible for all the mayhem on our Highway 3 (between Essex and Leamington along Lake Erie shore).

Maybe if people learned to use winter tires and drive for the conditions, it wouldn't be so bad. Not just Vancouver, same thing happens in Kelowna, Edmonton, and Calgary.

When I lived in Vancouver I had Nokians on steelies for my Volvo, as I drove up to the Okanagan a lot over the Coquihalla. Everyone down there was surprised that I'd swap over to winters. Then I'd pass those people in their BMW's and Audi's piled into the snowbanks, so I guess I got the last laugh

Speaking of lack of lines, Coming out of Jasper park towards Hinton there are no lines on the highway at all, and there are even signs that say "no lines on roadway". Someone figured it would be better to put up a sign than actually putting lines down.

they were doing road repairs along that section when I was out there last week. I guess waiting for the work to be done before scheduling the line painters.

^ No sign of any construction when we went through late last week. You know how silly things can get when huge long lines of backed-up traffic break out of the park and hit that passing lane up the hill... it was a free-for-all, no one seemed to have a clue where to be on the road. They should have at least put temporary markers down if they were waiting for construction to be complete.

No amount of tires (and yes I run with winter Nokians) and due attention can overcome poor visibility. A wet Vancouver road at nighttime might as well be a black hole.

Winter tires don't do anything for the abysmal lane markings in this country. It's like they just rub it on with chalk, it's gone within a few months.

Maybe you should take a drive on that road on even a clear summer night and see how crappy the visibility is on essentially a still new highway. Even though there's still the original section just north of Porteau Cove. Which stupidly still has nothing done in that section for improvements.

Bbbbbbbut we're saving the environment! Greenest city in the world! And other empty platitudes. :rolleyes:

Reflectors are pretty much pointless anywhere that gets regular winter plowing operation. Even recessed ones are destroyed within a season. You can get away with it in the Lower Mainland and Vancouver Island because they don't plow often.

I've already dealt with commuting from Mission to Vancouver every day for 5 years, no thanks. :haha: I thought s211 was talking about snow clearing.

This doc explains the various forms of line marking and what is more durable.

http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...n/pavemark.pdf

Tired of this thread just being bitching, so here are some pics I took on my trip through BC the other week.

A couple night shots of the #1 from the Brunette Interchange.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1c878e75_h.jpgHighway 1 Night by Ian, on Flickr

A couple shots of the Crowsnest climbing out of Osoyoos. My favorite descent into a valley ever.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e693e976_h.jpgHighway Switchbacks by Ian, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...da220cc5_h.jpgTight Curve! by Ian, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...79f18198_h.jpgOkanagan Welcome by Ian, on Flickr

And the Okanagan Connector heading west. The wind turbines were a surprise to me. Not there last time I took the Connector.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3cda7077_h.jpgOkanagan Connector; Leaving Kelowna by Ian, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fd7d5733_h.jpgOkanagan Connector; On Top of the World by Ian, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...7f521205_h.jpgOkanagan Connector by Ian, on Flickr

Always enjoy a good road trip through BC in the summer!

Great shots, Ian!

Yeah that drop down into Osoyoos from the Boundary country has some dramatic scenery.

Cool to see the wind turbines up there. Those must be fairly recent