I don't know, I just feel like there's still something to be said about keeping the cards in the deck. Barnett likes to play with us.

Then I suspect the final design will probably be the exact same height. ~1480 parapet is what we'll get.

Yeah, I see a contradiction here. From one side Barnett is very secretive and would not release the rendering but on another it allows it to leak to NY Yimby?

A leak is a leak, but a drawing is very different from a rendering. I remember when it was leaked that Barnett was building a 1,000 ft tower on 57th (One57), but no design element was revealed. However, the DOB always has drawings, which have to be submitted. I haven't been by the site in a couple of weeks, but I'm always looking for even a drawing on the boards. It was revealed that a complaint was filed in order to get Extell to provide even that preliminary rendering it has of 250 South St on that site, which is required by the DOB. And that's not even as far along as this.

Frankly, when it comes to that, I'm with the NIMBYs. Put something up already.

Releasing a rendering prematurely allows the developer to be scrutinized even more and this could be a risk, often that is calculated. Then theres a ton of paperwork to be done if the design changes and lets say applications are filed prematurely for a concept that won't necessarily be 99% of what the final product is.

Also, more of a prestige and perfectionist complex which is good for sales. Given the clients that they are dealing with, presentation and image is key. A prototype that in the building process would be considered alpha is not acceptable. Better to release them down the line when its set in stone what the design will be. Then, they can tweak it slightly, but not enough to disappoint prospective buyers.

Keep in mind that the renderings that we often see have been around for a while now. Shown to prospective buyers in sales office behind closed doors to keep its exclusivity and way before the public see's it.

Lastly, competition. A sub-bar design can steal buyers who may be looking to buy such units. With an influx of uber-luxury supertalls and skyscrapers, every sale matters given the low units and high risk even in a market that supports it. Its still risky to build these keep in mind. A sudden economic downturn could turn the whole supertall bonanza into a bust.

This of course varies for developers, but you tend to see it more from the top-tier architects/builders.

Weren't the renderings pretty much released already? I mean that's what the building will more or less look like no?

Yup will look the same.

I think people are expecting some dramatic change where it shoots close to 2000 feet, but its not happening.

Also with certain people having access to info, this is sometimes done by contract where they vow to not give any info away or suffer penalties or lawsuits if they do. Possibly hints, but no actual info. This varies based on who it is, and where the source comes from.

I'm definitely not expecting it to hit 2000 feet but it's hard to know if the height is really finalized. With Steinway next door rising to 1424 they might want to bump it up a little to stand out, maybe?

I guess "even" at 1480 + spire it'll stand out plenty anyway.

If they could just add an extension, a stick of wood, something to make it taller than 1776, I'd be happy. :yes:

But to be honest, given the great fortune of this boom, being the 2nd tallest shouldn''t even phase us.

Whats going to be amazing is the photography that the boom will give us when more than 8 supertalls are rising at the same time.

It is pretty crazy when you think about it. :cheers:

This is true, but every other developer does it. What makes Extell different? We didn't see renderings for One 57 until it was going up either.

The problem is none of the renderings are official though, so how can you say its going to look exactly the same? Extell said there will be changes to the design, those renders released by Yimby are not final. So is the design staying the same or not? Sounds like not to me.

This is to far into the process to be completely altered. As I've said and Nikolai as well, expect slight alterations but nothing on the level of getting a whole new tower in terms of it looking radically different.

Its a controversial neighborhood. With One57, releasing them early would of provoked swift action from community groups, residents, and their political counterparts on the Upper East/West side. The issue of the park being harmed was a big issue for Barnett.

This tower is also controversial in its nature being almost #1 in height for the city. Barnett is all about risk, and he wants to get the foundation going, and 100% assurance that his projects will go up on time, and rise in the first place. Giving the bare minimum allowed, and just making it through the whole ordeal from conception to shovels on the ground is his game plan.

Keep in mind that the whole secrecy is a Barnett thing. Thats how he operates.

Its up to Extell on any changes, we have no say in that matter.

That's never been a major issue in the city, nor with this current batch of towers. Not for One57, not for 432 Park...this is next in line.

Maybe its that, we won't know that for awhile of course. This tower has a long way to go. With the department store in the base of the construction it might take longer to rise than its neighbors.

I don't think anyone is debating the finality of the design as revealed last summer. The question is how much height-change flexibility the design has.

So far we've seen it grow 11 feet from 1479 to 1490... Is there room for more? Steinway grew from 1350 to 1424 with the same design, so maybe this can hit 1550.

I find that to be a bunch of bs. This tower is no more important than 111 W. 57th or even 220 CPS, both of which have either a render or drawing on site, which is required by the DOB. Extell continues to try to operate above the rules, and now it's becoming clear what NIMBYs have been talking about in regards to One57 construction. The city has rules, and it is not interested in whatever petty reasons Extell would have for not providing anything.



I don't know why people would be expecting some major change. But you do understand the difference between an official render and what we've seen. I think a rendering will go a long way towards understanding how this tower works, what the facade treatement will be, how the glass may come off, etc. We need the fine details of the store, the transition to the tower, the spire, all of it in the fine detail that an official rendering will provide.

Extell is probably more focused on the interior renderings/glass façade rather than Nordstrom's boxy exterior/mass of the tower; (the latter is what we're interested in on here). Remember, Extell is calculating sales, and isn't interested in the height of the parapet. I'd think there's a ton of pressure upon the release of any form of rendering, as judgments will quickly be made of the tower. Renderings need to be perfected, as his clientele will probably be already contemplating whether to invest or not -- renderings are the icing on the cake and it needs to look and taste great. Extell is not worried about criticism; this tower is going up.

I agree 100%. In fact, Extell actually portions a part of their budget for project violations/etc.

If the "leaked" renderings on NYimby were basically an accurate depiction of what the final product will look like I don't get what everyone is so worked up about, we've essentially seen what the building will look like/how tall it will be. :)

Its just a shady way of doing business with the city. Following the rules is good, but in the pursuit of money, some make their own up. Not just in Real Estate, but in the bio and chem industry as well. Different topic obviously and lets keep it for another time, but underhanded tactics occur much more than we think. Sometimes its cheaper to pay violations then it would be to actually do things the right way. Cough cough oil industry cough cough. ;)

Actually if you want a good case study of this, research real estate violations in China. Lets not talk about it here, but its just food for thought.

I don't know if this is new or you can gleam anything from it, but Vertical_Gotham on SSC posted it just now. Looks like there is going to be a "Tween Lounge" in the building. :)

DOB:
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BS...de=ES968871142

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...b0b04312f4.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...6c2599304c.jpg

I wonder if there are more floor plans in other documents. Here's a plan of the 10th floor, found in the same document as the other. We can see the shape of the lower portion of the tower is the same as the massing diagrams showed by NYMBY.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...pss9mito3c.jpg

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...m-Tower-31.jpg
http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...er-Profile.jpg







The dimensions of the lower portion of the Tower

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...pshw5zpgos.jpg







The dimensions of the main portion of the Tower, with the cantilever will be 100'11'' x 87'3'' (30.8m x 26.6m) very similar to the dimensions of 432 Park.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...psp5emebhf.jpg





We can already see some structural elements. The huge load-bearing wall on the eastern side (marked with the letter "A") seems already there, it is the retaing wall against the Arts Students League building, that will go up to the cantilever. You can also see the column "B" and the load bearing walls "C" and "D" with the elevator shaft on the intersection of those walls.


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ps0rjosydt.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...psgfxlhebd.jpg

Honestly, I kinda like the general concept of this building..the various setbacks are cool, as NYguy says, the devil is definitely in the details...a "minor" enhancement to the spire would be a game-changer for this building

The spire actually works pretty well with the building and is decently proportioned I think.

I wonder if Steinway inching closer to this thing's height will push it higher? Perhaps not since 432 park avenue didn't force Steinway too much higher but in any case there will be a nice ascending plateau of 14-1500' buildings along the park. :)

Exactly. We essentially know what's coming here. I don't get what people are waiting for re. rendering; we already have a (rough) rendering.

Because some people just want something "official" to....critize! :koko:

Or because we're hoping for a supped up design.

Because an actual rendering from the actual architects will give you the details that a drawing can not. You people have looked at renderings for years, I honestly don't understand how you cannot know the difference.

But I guess until you have an actual rendering in front of you, you won't understand it.

i want final renders so we can compare the pretty pictures with what it actually turns out like when its done.

I, for one, am waiting for renderings so I can decide whether or not to purchase a unit here. If you guys save your pennies every month, maybe you can buy one too!

Two solutions to live in this tower. One, marry one of the buyers or two, make the next Iphone. Either that or work in it being the chef, make some great food, and hope that it changes his or her life forever because that dish was so good, and that it forces a bond between the two in which then you live in it because you get married.

Even saving a 10k a month, it would still take 83 years to buy a 10 mil unit.

Correct. But just to make it hurt, here’s some math (excuse any mistakes...I did this really fast).

If you got the $100 million pad with a conventional mortgage (20% down, 30 years, current interest rates), you would pay (all in today’s dollars)…

$20 million on Day 1
$4.6 million/year for years 1-10:
- $200,000 for maintenance
- $4,388,000 for the mortgage
$5.4 million/year for years 10+:
- Includes $960,000 in property taxes

So, your monthly costs would be:
- With property tax abatement: $382,400
- After abatement: $462,400

Let’s take the bigger one. Assuming you somehow had $20 million lying around to spend upfront, the monthly cost of holding that unit would require someone making minimum wage ($8.75/hour), to somehow work 88,080 hours per month, assuming you only paid taxes and housing costs.

Let’s put that another way. In order to afford the monthly cost of this if you only paid taxes and housing costs, you’d have to make $4,816/hour working 40 hours/week.

And finally, paying the mortgage over 30 years will actually cost you $156 million with interest. Carrying the unit for 30 years will tack on another $25 million in maintenance and taxes, for a total of $181 million. Let’s say you make the (respectable) salary of $100,000/year, and you pay your taxes like a good American, which runs you about 40%. With a take home pay of $60,000/year, it would take you over 3,000 years to earn enough money to buy this apartment. Think about how many times you’d have to redecorate in that timeframe (not included in cost estimate).

Not if you invest and let the interest grow ;)

Maybe less than 40 in that case... let's see who saves up enough first, or better yet all forumers can pitch in :haha:

There is third option more down to earth, apply and get accepted for building manager position. Job description below is from One57 but we can expect something similar for this tower.

Source: http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...m-unit-a-to-z/

I'm going to be very surprised if the parapet on this doesn't land somewhere between 1500 and 1550. ...of course the spire will have to be shortened if they insist on making deference to 1WTC's hideous spantenna :koko:

That would be nice, but what makes you think they won't just stick with the 1480' they have now?

The latest NB permit is for 1,490' feet. It remains to be seen if that measures to the HOF or to the top of the parapet. Also, that could easily be revised upward at this point. At a minimum, It's already taller than the 1,478' parapet height in Yimby's schematics.

Also, Yimby's schematic showed 93 floors, whereas the taller one most recently filed with the DOB has 92.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=07

Q2 is approaching so hopefully some details come out then. Would be a good time too. Hopefully then contruction really accelerates late summer to early fall.

http://commercialobserver.com/2015/0...n-the-country/


BY LAUREN ELKIES SCHRAM
4/08/15




https://nyocommercialobserver.files....7th-street.jpg

"Dwarfed" seems like a bit of a stretch describing a difference of 30 feet.

I know I was thinking the same thing. It's the media though, they love to exaggerate.

Even at 1500+ Nordstrom won't "dwarf" 432 by any stretch although it will be noticeably a bit taller. :)

4.12.15

Crane is coming soon.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7586/...6d8bff85_o.jpg


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7694/...aff97028_o.jpg

the anticipation for the official rendering is killing me...

http://urbanismvsmodernism.blogspot.com/

Brandon Nagle


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_An7-QrIlD...0/SAM_1973.JPG

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01

NEW RENDERINGS FROM YIMBY :cheers::djparty::banana:

http://www.yimbynews.com/2015/04/rev...-building.html

Quite a sight. :slob:

Note: These are official Renderings

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...-3-777x411.jpg

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...t-Extell-2.jpg

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...t-Extell-7.jpg

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/.../Penthouse.jpg

WOW. Love the new texture, and that lighting scheme ain't bad either. :yes:


The interior, hosted by Yimby-
http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...t-Extell-5.jpg

Well it's not the slick, broad stroke tower many were fingers crossed holding out for and early models (Barnett office) had suggested, but this design IS VERY New York. I think it will become a classic in time. I'm digging the hefty sculptural spire.

Agreed the Nordstrom spire has some integrity, unlike the "bait and switch" spire at 1WTC which was unfortunately an aesthetic game changer.

Still not a fan, but it's an improvement. Also, it looks so much taller than One57 ... :slob: