Nothing's certain at this point. It could end up shorter, but also way taller.
I wonder though that Barnett would not exploit the tower's full potential. It just doesn't make any sense. |
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So, for those inclined to get worked up, at least wait until you have something to be worked up about. |
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^Either way it's a major landmark in the making.
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Unlike even 432P, WTC2, Tower Verre and everything either slated or approved for the West Side---and until the planned MidTown East re-zoning kicks in with 1 Vanderbilt as its presumptive centerpiece--we can say the following about this tower.
This project, both in size and scope, is a virtual game-winner (never mind *changer*) that has the potential to redefine the *North American* skyscraper in ways that till now were relegated to "what if" status. What if one could actually erect without political impediment a super-iconic giant that combines the best elements of 30's-era gems like ESB, Chrysler, GE/RCA, 40 Wall, 20 Exchange Pl. etc. with *just enough* avant-gardism to respect the building's environment? Well, now it's possible. And here's that once-in-a-more-than-one-generation chance to see what it's gonna look like. This will indeed turn heads, perhaps with enough force to snap necks á la Will Sasso's Seagal parody. |
They better not reduce the height regardless of the news. This building has to bring New York to new heights.
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Does anyone have demo updates of the piano building Extell recently acquired?
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^^ I will be very disappointed if they reduce the height of this building. It may not be our only bet for a skyline busting tower, but it certainly is our best bet for the near future.
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I'm with Nyguy on this, regardless of how this tower turns out, there's so much momentum in NYC real estate that I'm sure we won't have to wait too long to see buildings reaching to new heights. Just look at the building a block down which was supposed to be a 700 footer not that long ago but may turn into a 1200 footer. Developers seem to be maximizing as much of the space they can build on as they can, and considering how scarce land to build on is getting in the city, I can only expect this trend to accelerate as demand is still strong for residential towers and office space is more and more outdated.
That said I will be quite disappointed if the building turns out shorter than advertised, this might be one of the most anticipated building in the city and all the anticipation is predicated on its height since there are no renderings. Unlike let's say a Tower Verre (which height deduction I still can't get over), most of us skyscraper enthusiasts are still quite exited about it getting built because the design is so bad ass, we can't say the same when it comes to the Nordstrom tower cause we just don't know what it looks like, so the excitement is constrained to what we expect will be the tallest building by roof height in the city; so yea I'll be very disappointed if it turns out shorter but that has no bearing on NYC and how it's skyline is evolving cause I'm pretty sure other tower will reach those heights sooner rather than later. |
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I guess, but I don't want any project being limited from its full potential. This happened to Tower Verre and I don't want it to happen to this tower.
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There's another sizable development site owned by Durst on the south side of 57th Street near 6th. Then there's the CBS Superblock, which is the entire south of 57th Street between 10th and 11th. Ave. On the East Side, there are also two development sites near the u/c 250 E. 57th Street. |
Getting closer to reality, slowly but surely...
http://http://m.nypost.com/p/news/bu...Xy9bOqQ8Ox1BvJ Nordstrom buys its 57th St. store, jumbo skyscraper pending Quote:
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Sorry to say, but if this one doesn't live up to its full height then you all may be screwed.
The way I see it, there is a massive assortment of office space going up (Hudson Yards, WTC, etc) and certainly a ton of high end residential. Now, I know residential is hot right now, but how many super-lux condo's can NY absorb? It will slow eventually (and probably soon with so many supertalls being built). There aren't gonna be many more supertall office complexes going up soon (since it will take some time to absorb all the previously mentioned space). I also imagine that their aren't going to be too many more supertall residentials going up (at least not many going over 1100ft). So all in all I think this is the best chance NY has of getting something over 1500ft for a very long time (and maybe forever). I mean really, in a century NY has only built a few buildings over 1200ft (to roof). This is why I hope this building goes to it's proposed height and beyond. |
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This is view from 56th Street looking north around 6th. Is this Solow's or Durst's lot? Are they waiting to buy 5 story building in NE corner? This is a large property on one of most prestigious streets in Manhattan just sitting there undeveloped and gathering dust. http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9...7dabec28_b.jpg http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/9...22148415_b.jpg |
^ Send them an email.
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As far as office towers, with so much office space in the city outdated, there's going to be growing need for new buildings, so there will be demand for new office space, maybe not as pronounced as high end residentials but the WTC and HY eventually won't be enough and as we can see with plans like 425 Park and 1 Vanderbilt, developers are planning ahead |
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The Solow assemblage is very close to 5th Ave. There's also an Extell-owned lot in the middle of the Solow assemblage, but Solow is reportedly trying to buy the site. |
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If anything, if you're claiming there's too much luxury product, then it would be good for other developers if this project were delayed or downsized. But I don't think your premise is correct. NYC does not have that much up-to-date luxury product relative to demand. And Gary Barnett doesn't mess around. This project will be very tall and iconic, and every building permit filed so far shows 1,550 to roof. If it ends up taller or shorter, I don't see why that would matter for the overall NYC market, which isn't dependent on one building or one developer. |
I am not familiar with this firms designs so I was wondering what the general census is on styles likely to be used on this building? I am hoping for some modern take on the gothic style (a la tower verre), or maybe some glassed up version of art deco. So what do u guys think?
PS. as long as it's not some abstract random shape with rooms I won't die of a heart attack. :D |
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Well, don't I feel so foolish for having drawn the disdain of ny guy. I'd like to know what is so ridiculous about my statement. How often does NY (or any city in this country for that matter) get proposals that are 1550ft or more? Even in the midst of a building boom of sorts out there, you still have yet to see many proposals that break the 1,200ft mark. This isn't China or the Middle East. Proposals that are above 1500ft (at least one's that can be taken seriously) are a rarity in this country, and will continue to be in the foreseeable future. And yes, I realize there are proposals in the preliminary stages that promise to go to great heights in New York. Fact is, most projects don't live up to their full hype. If this project doesn't get there, then it will probably be a decade (at least) before any other developer attempts to build that high. |
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Now, for sure, we don't even know what the height of this tower is yet. There's still a lot on the table. But just keep in mind that although these towers are tall, they are hardly the tallest proposals to come around in Manhattan. http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/08/...-58th-st-home/ After Extell windfall, piano maker finds new West 58th St. home http://s12.therealdeal.com/trd/up/20...58thStDeal.jpg August 28, 2013 By Hiten Samtani Quote:
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Wow, he came out $15MM ahead and ended up with a far nicer building.
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I think every one of your posts is full of badly chosen words. Badly chosen words, sentences, paragraphs, thoughts and ideas. You need to work on that. |
^ I think he's just stating an opinion, it just came off the wrong way with the wrong words. It's obvious that we don't know what the future holds, we couldn't have predicted the towers we see rising now. Especially when only a few years ago, virtually nothing was rising in this part of town. New York is a world capital. People will always have big ideas on what to build in the City, and they won't always come from New York. So, while we can't predict anything, we really shouldn't be shocked whenever a new tallest is proposed for the City.
As far as this proposal goes, we're talking about a height reduction that may not even be. Will there be some disappointment? Yes, there always is whenever there is a height reduction. However, disappointment won't be on the scale of the 200 ft height chop of the Tower Verre, because there we had an actual design to know and love. Here, it's really just a number. They won't release any designs until its final. It won't be like the Hudson Yards, where various renderings are released showing changes in design as the process works its way out. Meanwhile, Nordstrom has taken it's ownership in the building, as was mentioned earlier... http://www.law360.com/articles/46804...extell-project Nordstrom Puts Down $102M To Own Space In Extell Project By Kaitlin Ugolik August 27, 2013 Quote:
As expected, the store will have openings on all 3 sides. http://www.globest.com/news/12_679/n...nt-337003.html Extell Issues Statement on Nordstrom http://cdn.globest.com/media/newspic...arnett-new.jpg Extell’s Gary Barnett plans to make 225 W. 57th St. one of the world's tallest buildings. By Rayna Katz August 27, 2013 Quote:
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^why fight when u have urbanism?
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;) |
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Anyways, let me be clear as to why I think this tower may be the best hope (at least for a long while) at getting a 1500ft+ tower. I think we can all agree that NY doesn't build "look at me" towers like China and the Middle East. They build for demand and for good business. I still think that 1550ft+ towers will be rare for developed countries in the near future. It is expensive, and there is rarely a need for such a tower. Now, NY has a lot of proposals in the pipeline but these are based on an assortment of future unknowns (none of which I care to get into). This project seems to have all the right things going for it. It has the available FAR, the financing, a developer who wants to go big, and it's coming at the peak of a super-lux real estate boom. Things don't usually line up so nice for huge towers like this. This is simply the right tower at the right time. That is why I made the comment I made. I'm sure others believe that these types of towers will be more common in the near future, and they're probably based on good logic as well. I certainly wouldn't insult anyone for having such an opinion, just don't insult me for my own on the matter..... |
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Now that all the final pieces are in place, the development of this tower can move forward as planned, so let's focus on that. http://chainstoreage.com/article/sky...imit-nordstrom The Sky’s the Limit for Nordstrom August 28, 2013 By Katherine Boccaccio Quote:
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The site doesn't have particularly unusual FAR (many Manhattan sites offer far more FAR), the developer isn't particularly unique (of all the proposed supertalls, this is the only current one by this developer), and there's no way to tell the peak of a boom until the boom has passed. The point is, there are many, many sites for supertalls, and Manhattan has the economics to make supertalls work. There's no reason to think that this is a particlarly unique situation. |
Folks, keep this discussion on this tower. I've provided the link for the discussion on supertalls in New York...
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194273 |
forgive my memory... but what is the size of this lot?
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The lot size was listed as 90,915 sq, ft,. but that was before the transaction that added 232 W 58th Street (Beethoven Pianos) to the lot. That probably added 1,200 sq. ft. to the lot (assuming 20 X 60).
The building looks more like 16 feet wide to me, but the demo permit says 20 feet of street frontage. Hard to say how far the Beethoven Pianos building does back from the street: http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/...6.jpg~original So the question is: how much additional floor space can Barnett add to the tower from the Beethoven purchase? He paid $25 million, so he probably has to add another full floor to the building to re-coup that. If the FAR is about 13.5 right now (90,915 X 13.5 = 1.227 million, very close to the stated 1.211 million sq. ft. from Extell's pre-Beethoven filing), adding 1,200 sq. ft. to the lot would add 16,200 sq. ft. of floor area. That's equal to 2 floors of a tower 90 feet square (similar to 432 Park in floor plate). Two such floors added to the top of the tower would certainly re-coup the Beethoven investment many times over. Of course, Extell might decide to allocate the additional floor area differently. |
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I do not mind when my pictures are reposted on this forum but proper credit must be given to owner of a picture. This is from forum rules: "Images. When posting images in the forum which are not your own you are required to provide credit to the originating website of each image." |
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As for the "originating website" of your photo, I found it on this very thread. |
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Any way I can't wait for renders of this building |
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No need to get offended and you don't have to delete my picture.I attribute every image that I repost here and when you look at this and other threads, you will notice that most of forum members do the same. Sure, it's not a big deal but helps to avoid any misunderstandings or perhaps it is "good manners". Also, you gave credit to NYguy when you reposted his image. If you don't want to do it that's fine but at least be consistent. |
It's standard to credit photos or at least quote already posted photos if they belong to someone else.
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http://sourceable.net/nordstrom-buy-...al-skyscraper/
Nordstrom Buys Site for Manhattan’s Tallest Residential Skyscraper Nordstrom will open its first New York department store in the bottom seven floors of a future Midtown skyscraper. http://sourceable.net/wp-content/upl...strom-Site.jpg 03 September 2013 Angela Fedele Quote:
( September 2, 2013 ) http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/152161806/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/152161808/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/152161809/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/152161810/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/152161811/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/152161812/original.jpg |
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Posted on SSC site. Take it for what it's worth. Looks like a complete letdown (at least in terms of height). |
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