Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M | 77.8M | 25F | 17F | 22F | 17F | 19F | U/C
 

Proposed $400 Million mixed-use development project located in Downtown Winnipeg's (SHED) District consisting of 4 mid-size towers centered around a public square.


Hotel, Office and Residential towers will be joined by a public walkway system connecting the MTS centre to the North and the RBC convention centre to the south. Retail components to the proposal are also being contemplated in the development

Developer: True North Sports and Entertainment.

CBC http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ment-1.3460488

Tower 1 - Scotiabank Tower

Phase 1 scheduled for completion in Summer 2018.
242 Hargrave Street; a signature 17-storey, 365,000 sq ft Class A office tower with a summer 2018 occupancy

TDS and Scotiabank as tenants.

Tower 2

24 storey residential tower, with retail and office at podium level.

Tower 3

27 storey, 275 room Sutton Place hotel

Tower 4

17 storey condo tower, 130 units


Feb.24.2016 Current exterior views of the proposal..

http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...ns_view_01.jpg

TNS North View
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...North-View.jpg

TNS South View
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...South-View.jpg

TNS Square
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...ers/Square.jpg

Sutton Place Hotel
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...lace-hotel.jpg

Hargrave St Entrance
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/wp-co...s/Hargrave.jpg

Image Source: http://www.truenorthsquare.com/development/gallery/


Renders - Site Layout : Feb.24th.2016

http://i.cbc.ca/1.3462179.1456336825...bank-tower.jpg
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ment-1.3460488
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...e0&oe=57588630
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1c&oe=5753881E
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...16&oe=5727FD37
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7f&oe=5770379C
Image Sources: https://www.facebook.com/truenorthsquare/?fref=photo

Current Sources:
http://www.truenorthsquare.com/
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2016/02/2...quare-revealed
https://www.facebook.com/truenorthsquare/?fref=photo
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...ment-1.3460488

Links regarding proposal:


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...uare-1.3095679


https://twitter.com/aldosantin/statu...45787057680384

This is unconfirmed however, rooftop pool on the northwest building near the powerhouse = hotel. Tower between powerhouse and the church is likely the office tower. The 220 Carlton site, as previously discussed, is some form of residential.

Also the rendering shows the church surface lot becoming a park and some change to the site access for their garage coming from the east instead of the current west configuration. Not sure if the church is formally part of these plans.

Just to clarify, is this development the same as "so po square" ?

iow, is this what so po became?

I believe so.

"So Po Square"...what a terrible name... let us never hear it uttered again.

"Value engineering" is also going to have fun with all those rooftop trees.

...curved walls, tilted walls, glass walls, height of buildings...

Well, those designs don't look as complicated as the CMHR's designs. IMHO, it's doable. But, like most renderings, the final product will most likely look different.

hoepfuly the green building stuff doesnt get axed would be nice to have another one kidy corner to hydro

As it stands St.Marys is not interested in what True north is offering.. And they offered an obscene amount of money so that is unlikely to change

……………………...

…………………….

$200!? Hells nah... $300+ w/out leaseholds.

Somebody mentioned the Trizec in another post. I hope it was done ironically 'cause this - if it ever gets built - is going to resemble a very similar transaction.

But thank god the definitively worst hotel market in the country is going to be getting a publicly subsidized hotel. You want to keep that playing field level for the existing privately held hotels in the area that are having difficulty staying occupied...

So that sliver of land between the Carlton Ave. tower and the Cathedral is now Longboat/TNSE's? I always thought that the Cathedral owned that since they're the ones who appear to be using it.

Yeah. Maybe the lotteries building.
I doubt the hotel could be sustainable at 300+ though.

I think that's the point, right? It's not. So we can infer three things immediately:

1) Construction costs, for the most part, are what the are. In other words, there are only so many discounts to be had given labour doesn't discount and worldwide commodities markets don't either. So nobody is getting what they aren't paying for.

2) Given Point 1 and your true to fact point that it's unsustainable at 300+/sq ft, these drawings are a figment of an architects imagination and little more.

BUT

3) Keeping even the basic elements of the renderings, this is still easily a $300-$325/sq ft build inclusive of soft costs. That means somebody is going to have to close the value gap between the price at which this building is sustainable and the price at which it costs to get built. I don't think it requires that much guesswork as to who that party is going to be.

It'll be interesting to see how the city manages this one, anyway. 220 Carlton is supposed to have a caveat against it that requires its taxation to pay for a portion of the Convention Center. If that's true, there's no ability to TIF that property unless the city pretends there's enough value to advance funding on taxation revenues over and above what was originally anticipated when the Convention Center deal was done and that they know damn well will never exist. Don't put this past them. The SHED TIF is still largely provincially funded. That's important given that CentreVenture couldn't possibly be more broke.

To be fair — the Centrepoint parkade does/will look EXACTLY like the renderings, which is rare. Hahaha

Lest we forget:

http://centrepointwinnipeg.com/wp-co...parkade_02.jpg

Well from the final design at least

Forgot about that. Ouch...what a downgrade.

CentrePoint parkade, proudly brought to you by the best in value engineering.

Just to clarify - but that downgrade is "value-architecting". The engineer can only start after the architect has decided how it is supposed to look!

Couldn't it have gone out as originally designed for costing, come back way too high and been sent back to architect?

It's called value ENGINEERING because engineers always ruin everything.

^ don't hate the player...

Here's an older conceptual render( drawing)? of what Sp Po may have looked like..seems more feasible with all the talk reg: Winnipeg styled "value-engineering"..no?

Brings you back...

http://downtownwinnipegtrends.com/wp.../10/SHED-1.jpg
http://downtownwinnipegtrends.com

Look at all those cool funnelators..

^ That's probably more realistic. And yeah, what happened to all those funnelators? All these years later and still just the one, when it isn't being removed due to some kind of malfunction or fire.

I have talked to some involved with the SHED streetscaping and apparently there will likely be only the one Funnelator.

You know, maybe because it is unique it will start to gain some love......or not.

I am obviously in the minority, but I kind of like it. Downtown needs more colour, more lights, more animation. If it is not Funnelators they I hope they can develop some other kinds of colourful art installations.

It will definitely add a unique look to our city, i'll go beyond the norm and welcome them. :cheers:

• Video Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7Y09mDHsHk

Or perhaps the cost the build and maintain the Funnelator, the footprint it needs, and the operational issues it has experienced all combined to put a chill on further rollout plans. Even at the relatively small size of the one by the library space for them would be tight. The original plan suggested that was a medium size one with ones even larger that could operate as a kiosk were being planned!

I agree I really like them too. People were hating on them and saying "funnelators won't save downtown" — well no shit, but they make it a hell of a lot cooler (and memorable to tourists). Think with cool tech. art installations like them, Emptyful (library beaker) and the stuff on Market... it would such a cool draw if we became a hub for stuff like that... [are you listening Plug-In ICA + innovation alley?]

• Video Link

Quick fix to the video you posted above rk..

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"I am obviously in the minority, but I kind of like it"

Well, we're both part of the "Silent Minority"..BF..I've always liked what they were trying to achieve. Hopefully they'll have a second go at the concept and we may see something similar in the future, hopefully with improved weather proofing for our climate...

I'm fine without a bunch of funnelators, but unique lighted art instalations every block would be nice. make an "art walk" out of it.

:yes:

Another grandiose plan downsized and in this case, quite severely. I thought we were supposed to have several of these funnelators dotting the SHED?

Sometimes, you have to jiggle the toilet seat handle before it can flush..If it doesn't work, you call in a plumber..

In other words, the technology they were trying to implement was not ready for 24/7 mass distribution and use, it happens. Hopefully they get it right the next time around.

I thought the original vision of the funnelators wasn't that they would all be screens. They would all be different. One was supposed to be like a retail kiosk that was a funnel. Etc.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...306768121.html

Dare I say, a good article in the Free Press this morning summarizing the mess going back to day one.

Quick article from 2013 sums it up quite well...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The futuristic Funnelator is the prototype and the first of (hopefully) many to pop up as part of CentreVenture’s plan for downtown’s sports, hospitality, and entertainment district (SHED)."

"“This one was designed and built to be the first one, to see how it works, and to test the capabilities of the LED screen. Until we run this one for awhile we’re not going to be building dozens of them in the immediate future.”

https://metronewsca.files.wordpress....8&h=408&crop=1
http://metronews.ca/news/winnipeg/88...nnium-library/


The prototype funkellator didn't pass the mustard test...:shrug:

I've heard from a pretty good source that the Funnelator dream is dead. There won't be any more.

Plans for True North Square were shown to councillors at city hall yesterday. They include three towers, some office buildings a public plaza and a new four-star, 275 room hotel. 220 Carlton will be part of the project but won’t be the site of the hotel as originally planned. Anyone else have any details concerning this?

^^ SoPo Square had a hotel as part of their plan. I wonder if the plan to possibly put a higher end hotel from another developer at 220 Carlton was putting those plans in jeopardy. I also wonder if the original plan for 220 Carlton was part of the motivation behind True North negotiating the rights to develop that site without a hotel.

^ It certainly stands to reason that TN would do what it could to prevent a competitor from setting up shop across the street when its own development plan called for something similar.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of hotel, if any, gets built. Given that Longboat/TNSE now has a relationship with Germain Group, you would think that the next hotel would be another collaboration between the two for a Le Germain (basically the more upscale chain offered by Germain Group as compared to Alt, which is the budget-minded offering). However, would that cause a problem for the Convention Centre which seems oddly fixated on a major global chain like Starwood, Marriott or Hilton that offers a widely-used loyalty reward system... they've implied that this is key to a successful Convention Centre hotel... apparently people won't come to conventions here unless they can get SPG points?

I would be willing to wager that a Starwood brand hotel will be on the site. TN wants to corner the market for NHLPA stays as well. More than likely a Westin will be built on the site.

Yeah, good point... I seem to recall that this was mentioned as one of the big reasons that the ill-fated P&M hotel was slated to get what was it, Le Meridien branding? To be part of the SPG group. Apparently Winnipeg is one of if not the only NHL market where the players don't stay at a Starwood hotel?

I guess Westin makes sense, but I suppose it could be Sheraton too, those are probably the two most common downtown big-city Starwood brands. I thought it was odd that Asper was chasing Le Meridien for P&M when we didn't have a Westin or Sheraton first.

I have to admit I am a SPG point nerd myself so I can understand the appeal of taking this approach.

:pepper::dancing::banana::awesome::cucumber::leek:

A downtown hotel from Starwood would do well. Apart from the NHL business, over the years I've had several colleagues booked into the Inn at the Forks panic at the last minute at the thought of staying at a "no name" hotel and ask me if they should stay at the Fairmont because "at least it is a nice chain".

Personally, I have hopped a couple of times between the suburban Four Points properties to maintain status, even though the CMHR views at the Inn at the Forks are one of my favourites.

I believe Viking said that Starwood reps were quite happy at the thought of getting a downtown property.

Nice to here some relevent news on this proposal.

So there's a press conference to announce where Manitoba liquor and lotteries will locate their headquarters at 1130.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/mani...ters-1.3248208