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J81 Jan 5, 2020 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 8791098)
You also need to account for how busy the airports are. YHZ gets over 6x the passengers that YQM does. When any given storm happens there are a lot more large passenger planes scheduled to land at YHZ so the potential for accidents and diversions or cancellations is higher.

I gave the example of Monctons last incident to illustrate that the problem is not isolated to YHZ and that it can happen at any airport. I wasnt comparing the two.

thenoflyzone Jan 6, 2020 1:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 8791072)

Do you think the uptick in these kinds of incidents is directly related to the experience level of pilots these days? Once upon a time you couldnt sniff the right seat of a jet with less than 3000hrs and nowadays the requirements for some airlines are half that or less. Personally i believe there is a direct correlation.

Heres an interesting fact. The longest runway at Chicago’s Midway airport is 6500ft and it handles over 5 times the passengers as YHZ. Chicago has some pretty gnarly weather just like YHZ. They dont call it the windy city for nothing.

Way too early to draw conclusions as to the cause of this incident, but speaking in general terms, and based on my personal opinion, yes, piloting skills have gone down over the years. That being said, the rules and regulations are stricter now compared to 10-15 years ago because of it.

With almost every incident, a company implements new safety elements in its piloting procedures/restrictions. No doubt something similar will happen here.

As for MDW, that airport is more of an exception rather than a rule. MDW has no room to grow. It’s literally stuck in a 2 square mile area with dense and populated neighbourhoods all around. That’s not the case at YHZ. And it’s not like Midway hasn’t had its share of runway overruns involving a B737 in winter conditions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sout...es_Flight_1248

q12 Jan 6, 2020 1:38 PM

Three Air Canada Boeing 777's departing YHZ for YYZ between 3pm and 11:30pm today. That's approximately 1200 seats.

https://i.ibb.co/28PWnXF/777.png

J81 Jan 6, 2020 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8791293)
Way too early to draw conclusions as to the cause of this incident, but speaking in general terms, and based on my personal opinion, yes, piloting skills have gone down over the years. That being said, the rules and regulations are stricter now compared to 10-15 years ago because of it.

With almost every incident, a company implements new safety elements in its piloting procedures/restrictions. No doubt something similar will happen here.

As for MDW, that airport is more of an exception rather than a rule. MDW has no room to grow. It’s literally stuck in a 2 square mile area with dense and populated neighbourhoods all around. That’s not the case at YHZ. And it’s not like Midway hasn’t had its share of runway overruns involving a B737 in winter conditions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sout...es_Flight_1248

I see the same thing in my line of work as well. Skills, knowledge and training are going downhill and rules and regulations are getting tighter. Yet incidents are going up. If you train a person properly the results in most cases will be higher regulatory compliance as well as fewer incidents.


I realize MDW is a special case but so is the example you gave in Funchal. I believe its the only place in the world to have used stilts to extend the runway. They didnt have much choice as its on the side of a cliff. Pretty extreme case as well.


The reality is that most mid sized airports in NA have a similar configuration. One longer main runway arranged to take advantage of prevailing winds and another shorter crossing runway for those oddball days. I could look up dozens of examples of this. YHZ is no different. Except at this point they have 05/23 at 10500ft and 14/32 and 7700 which is plenty. The worst weather days the wind is always out of the N or NE so theyve got it covered there. They could however add 1000ft to the threshold of 32 i think fairly easily but that would have to come out of the airports pocket solely. The government just gave them a bunch of money to extend 05/23 from 8800 to 10500. Cant see them poneying up anymore. But... it is the Canadian government we’re talking about.

Dominion301 Jan 7, 2020 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8790335)
It was reduced to summer seasonal. Presently its planned to resume in late March (similar to what happened with BA / AC's NRT last year).

That’s better than being cut outright.

Dominion301 Jan 7, 2020 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8791062)
It baffles me as well why they chose rwy 14. But, with every incident, there is a chance of a lawsuit, and whether they were at fault or not, YHZ’s insurance is going up. At one point, they will need to do something about it.

14 has ILS. In that kinda weather, ILS is mandatory leaving only 2 options at YHZ...or divert like the AC 321 did.

hollywoodcory Jan 7, 2020 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8792360)
That’s better than being cut outright.

There's part of me that doesn't actually believe they'll resume. They've already temporarily closed reservation from end of March-mid May once before.

It's probably been difficult for them to compete against the many non-stops to China out of YVR. Well there is a market for YYC-China, it certainly isn't as strong as Vancouver.

thenoflyzone Jan 7, 2020 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8792366)
14 has ILS. In that kinda weather, ILS is mandatory leaving only 2 options at YHZ...or divert like the AC 321 did.

The ILS part I get. It’s the tailwind on a contaminated runway that doesn’t make sense. ILS or not. They should never have even attempted the approach. So the blame most likely rests on the PIC.

wave46 Jan 7, 2020 7:38 PM

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but Porter has cut its seasonal flights from Ottawa, Toronto and Windsor to Florida.

Porter W19 Suspensions

I don't know if this is because a Q400 can't make it to Florida with a full load, but a shame nonetheless.

It seems Porter is out of easy growth places right now and stuck with what they have.

thenoflyzone Jan 7, 2020 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8792990)
I'm not sure if this has been posted, but Porter has cut its seasonal flights from Ottawa, Toronto and Windsor to Florida.

Porter W19 Suspensions

I don't know if this is because a Q400 can't make it to Florida with a full load, but a shame nonetheless.

It seems Porter is out of easy growth places right now and stuck with what they have.

It’s been removed from the schedules for a few months now.

MLB is 90km away from Orlando and Disney. Wasn’t the best airport for them to serve. Combined with the limit of range issue on the Q400, and it’s hardly surprising they ended all ops there.

magee_b Jan 8, 2020 7:34 AM

Porter also seems to have significantly reduced its' maritime services for the winter months.

Quote:

The airline posted a notice on its website that service from Saint John “is not offered between January 6, 2020, and February 1, 2020.”

The airline said in an e-mail to Huddle that the service will resume on February 2, with up to two flights per week, increasing at busier times.
Quote:

Service to Moncton and Fredericton will be available, but will run on a reduced schedule in January

Service to St. John’s, NL, will also be stopped between January 6 and March 31, 2020.
Source: https://huddle.today/porter-temporar...to-saint-john/

Bishop2047 Jan 8, 2020 11:08 AM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-u...hran-1.5418610

Another Boeing crash though the cause is quite unclear thus far. I'm sure more than a few conspiracies are gonna surround this one.

Airboy Jan 8, 2020 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop2047 (Post 8793589)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-u...hran-1.5418610

Another Boeing crash though the cause is quite unclear thus far. I'm sure more than a few conspiracies are gonna surround this one.

A large number of the Canadians were from the Edmonton area. Couple of Professors, a doctor and her family.

The reason so many Canadians on board is because of limited flights and most people do not want to travel through the US. So they take the flight to Europe.


Update; At least 30 Edmontonians on this flight.

zahav Jan 8, 2020 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airboy (Post 8793702)
A large number of the Canadians were from the Edmonton area. Couple of Professors, a doctor and her family.

The reason so many Canadians on board is because of limited flights and most people do not want to travel through the US. So they take the flight to Europe.


Update; At least 30 Edmontonians on this flight.

Travelling through the US to Iran isn't an option, only through Europe. From most Canadian cities, travellers to Iran connect in LHR, CDG, AMS, or FRA. I never would've thought of the Ukrainian Airlines option but it does make total sense from a cost perspective, and distance-wise it is pretty much right on the circle route from YYZ to KBP (Kyiv).

But this is very tragic news, it is one of the largest losses of Canadian lives of any disaster. Having that proportion of Canadians is massive.

esquire Jan 8, 2020 8:13 PM

^ Parallels with the Air India disaster of the 1980s... a foreign airliner undergoing a catastrophic event in another foreign country, but with many Canadians affected.

Dominion301 Jan 9, 2020 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8794090)
^ Parallels with the Air India disaster of the 1980s... a foreign airliner undergoing a catastrophic event in another foreign country, but with many Canadians affected.

Big difference with Air India though is it was a bomb and was a flight departing from Canada. Yesterday's crash had a 8 people from Ottawa, while many on AI in '86 were also from Ottawa. I was in elementary school and two sisters that also went to my school and lived a block away from me perished on AI182, along with their parents. As for UIA, it's too early to tell whether it was a heinous act or a purely coincidental mechanical catastrophe in a hostile area from a country where missiles were launched mere hours earlier.

Dominion301 Jan 9, 2020 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magee_b (Post 8793561)
Porter also seems to have significantly reduced its' maritime services for the winter months.



Source: https://huddle.today/porter-temporar...to-saint-john/

Apparently Porter are doing cabin refreshes on a lot of their fleet this winter. I think they're short of aircraft as a result and will likely be back to a full Maritime schedule next winter. MLB on the other hand, where 3/4 flights were on Saturdays, I don't think aircraft reconfigs would be the culprit of that being cut.

Denscity Jan 10, 2020 9:36 PM

Is deicing fluid bright green? Hanging at yvr and seeing it in the bigger planes wings.

p_xavier Jan 10, 2020 9:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 8796217)
Is deicing fluid bright green? Hanging at yvr and seeing it in the bigger planes wings.

At YUL it's a bright orange.

thenoflyzone Jan 10, 2020 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_xavier (Post 8796234)
At YUL it's a bright orange.

Depends. There is the green fluid as well. There are 4 types of deicing fluids. All with different coloration to differentiate between them. Type 1 fluid is orange. Type 2 is clear. Type 3 is yellow, Type 4 is green.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...ummary-207.htm


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