SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   City Compilations (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87)
-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

dales5050 Jul 8, 2015 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7087360)
Get your facts straight, man. Words matter.

There are 10 direct flights daily to New York and 14 to Chicago, not counting connections. How is that "a bit of a challenge"?

Serviced OK is 7 direct flights to NYC (not 10 according to SAN.org) and 11 to Chicago. Some of these flights are on Southwest and Spirit. Not really the airline of choice for C-Level.

Comparing this to SFO, it's not even close. Looking at the departures from SFO to NYC area and only counting unique departure times to account for sharing, there are 49 direct flights to NYC alone


Unless you're seriously trying to compare the flight options at SFO to SAN.

spoonman Jul 8, 2015 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dales5050 (Post 7088280)
Serviced OK is 7 direct flights to NYC (not 10 according to SAN.org) and 11 to Chicago. Some of these flights are on Southwest and Spirit. Not really the airline of choice for C-Level.

Comparing this to SFO, it's not even close. Looking at the departures from SFO to NYC area and only counting unique departure times to account for sharing, there are 49 direct flights to NYC alone


Unless you're seriously trying to compare the flight options at SFO to SAN.

YESTERDAY there were 14 to Chicago and 10 to New York. I am not comparing SFO to SAN as there is no point. SFO is a west coast hub and much of its traffic is pass through, as opposed to O&D. For local purposes, 10+ daily flights (not counting dozens of connecting flights) is adequate at the moment. If it isn't, more flights will be added, but the airport doesn't need to become a hub overnight and triple the number of flights to get the 'next Facebook'. There are a number of different airlines offering service to NYC . Service at SAN is excellent save for a few more international destinations.

dales5050 Jul 8, 2015 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7088399)
I am not comparing SFO to SAN as there is no point. SFO is a west coast hub and much of its traffic is pass through, as opposed to O&D.

My comment was based on the idea of having companies (serviced by SFO) setup operations in San Diego. The original comment was something like they are doing it near LAX so why not SAN....

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7088399)
For local purposes, 10+ daily flights (not counting dozens of connecting flights) is adequate at the moment. If it isn't, more flights will be added, but the airport doesn't need to become a hub overnight and triple the number of flights to get the 'next Facebook'. There are a number of different airlines offering service to NYC . Service at SAN is excellent save for a few more international destinations.

Adequate for who? I think it's pretty silly to suggest your personal opinion is equal to the determination made by a company in another city.

As you said, comparing the number of flights is not reasonable. Beyond this, what specific airlines actually service destinations matter greatly. For example, the difference in experience between Terminal 1 and Terminal 2 is just as vast.

If San Diego were to ever make a pitch, I hope they would not be so bold to point out the items that are 'adequate' as you have.

So I stand by my point. I would love for some of these companies to relocate to the area but in evaluating that they are going to look at multiple factors, including SAN.

spoonman Jul 8, 2015 5:04 PM

^ The level of service has been determined "adequate" by market conditions, not me. Sorry bud.

Bertrice Jul 8, 2015 5:55 PM

New park at Pinnacle tower

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...98&oe=561CEF0A

spoonman Jul 8, 2015 8:02 PM

^ Oooh la la. I hear there is also subterranean parking.

dales5050 Jul 8, 2015 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7088563)
^ The level of service has been determined "adequate" by market conditions, not me. Sorry bud.

And a market that does not include "Facebook" type back offices.

Thanks for playing.

SDCAL Jul 9, 2015 1:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackertastik (Post 7087466)
I think in the US, San Diego has more than sufficient airlift, and with improvements to Lindbergh it will keep getting better. This doesn't even account for the Tijuana-US airport being improved.

Internationally, its a minor challenge, but a 30 min hop to LA, to then go anywhere in the world isnt that awful, compared to say, 3 hours of extra flight time from Chicago.

Speaking of attracting business, I always thought San Diego could have gone the direction Miami has. Really target Latin American corporations' US-Based offices. Latin banks, etc. It is as convenient as Miami IMO. And then target Asian business for the same purpose, being as convenient as LA. SD isn't utilizing it's corporate draw as much as it could.

I have to disagree with you. As someone who has business travelled internationally from SD and talked to many who do so regularly, the extra little "hop" from a bigger hub to SD does make a difference. One problem is that you have to get your bags, go through customs, then re-check them when you transfer off of an incoming international flight and onto a domestic flight. This is a pretty big headache especially when you have to either rush to catch a flight or spend hours waiting in the chaos of LAX or O'hare. And frequent business travels have to do this routine many, many times a year. It's not fun when you've just been on a long flight from Mumbai or Frankfurt or Beijing.

And the improvements at SAN are all fine, but they are all non-runway improvements. They are making it easier to park and easier to wait with nicer restaurants, but no new runway space hence no expanded international routes.

As far a Miami and SD in relation to Latin America - look at a map. SD is much further geographically from Latin America than Miami is. South and Central America skew east and are much closer to Miami than to SD. I do agree with you about Asia. SD is in a prime Pacific location and we could be doing a lot more to try and attract some of that from la and sf.

SDCAL Jul 9, 2015 1:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7088563)
^ The level of service has been determined "adequate" by market conditions, not me. Sorry bud.

They are adequate for current market conditions, but current market conditions have SD as one of the least amount of international business of major U.S. cities. I think the point is our air infrastructure needs to improve to attract more to our area. I guess the argument can be made do we get the new business and then expand the infrastructure, or expand the infrastructure first to lure the business here. But comparatively speaking, SD is not a prime place to do international business, and our airport is a crippling influence.

Derek Jul 9, 2015 3:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7089129)
One problem is that you have to get your bags, go through customs, then re-check them when you transfer off of an incoming international flight and onto a domestic flight.



As someone who has never flown internationally, this sounds extremely frustrating and inefficient! So you're saying if somebody took a flight from Vancouver to LA, and then LA to SD, they'd have to go get their checked bags and then recheck them????

SDfan Jul 9, 2015 3:12 AM

The "we need a new airport" line is probably only second to "we need to raise the height limit downtown."

SAN isn't great, and it reflects our city. It's adequate, quaint, and meh. If San Diego had serious aspirations in international business and trade, we would have moved that needle 50 years ago. It's too late now. We can't build anything big like that in California anymore. There are too many interests (NIMBYS), too many regulations, and not enough political capital to move forward with anything other than SAN. Our best hope is for greater utilization of Tijuana's airport. It's already capable of handling larger aircraft, we just need to start using it.

SDfan Jul 9, 2015 3:29 AM

New post from sdurban http://sdurban.com/?p=9846

mello Jul 9, 2015 5:32 AM

Finally an SD Urban update: 8-9 floors on Polk and Park Blvd. the lot by Sprouts I keep asking about! Hell yes! Then height at Park and El Cajon Blvd. (Lusti Motors lot) this is huge for that corridor. Then what the heck is up on I-15 from Adams to University they are putting in a bus lane??? I noticed they are tearing out the freeway bushes right now.

Spoke with Dan McSwain of UT San Diego today and he said Qualcomm and developers are complaining like crazy about the city's development services department saying City of SD is incredibly difficult to deal with and they are fed up big time. Any news of Qualcomms midrises that were supposed to be built on Sorrento Mesa, are they still a go?

--- Article says SD is third most suburban large city in US behind San Antonio and Phoenix... Uh Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Orlando are all 2 million plus metro areas that are far less urban than SD. I think our numbers get skewed because of military bases, canyons, Mission Trails, Regional park, Mission Bay, etc. Is SD suburban yes of course but not 3rd most in US by a long shot.

SDfan Jul 9, 2015 5:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7089327)
Any news of Qualcomms midrises that were supposed to be built on Sorrento Mesa, are they still a go?

Last I heard, Qualcomm was putting all of their expansion plans in SD on pause because of their frustration with the development department (and those massive fines in China may have something to do with it too...)

mello Jul 9, 2015 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7089333)
Last I heard, Qualcomm was putting all of their expansion plans in SD on pause because of their frustration with the development department (and those massive fines in China may have something to do with it too...)

You have got to be kidding me. This should be an outrage with articles in UT and a huge comments list. This is economic activity from a known entity (by far the largest in the Metro area) just being flushed down the toilet. Tons of tax revenue lost, unbelievable that Fualconer is not all over this. I'm pissed :hell:

SDCAL Jul 9, 2015 7:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 7089227)
As someone who has never flown internationally, this sounds extremely frustrating and inefficient! So you're saying if somebody took a flight from Vancouver to LA, and then LA to SD, they'd have to go get their checked bags and then recheck them????

Yeah. Depending on the airline and if you have a codeshare, your bags may already be checked to the final destination, but even then you would still need to collect your bags at baggage claim, clear customs, and then hand them off to a counter at the airline for the domestic flight. So technically, in some cases, you aren't actually re-checking them but you still have to collect them then hand them back off again.

Maybe there is some agreement with Canada that eliminates this, I have no idea I've never flown into the U.S. from Canada before. But flights from Europe and Asia require clearing customs at the 1st port of entry which means you must collect your baggage then re-deposit it to an airline counter for the domestic leg of the flight.

aerogt3 Jul 9, 2015 9:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7089230)
We can't build anything big like that in California anymore. There are too many interests (NIMBYS), too many regulations, and not enough political capital to move forward with anything other than SAN.

I think you can narrow down NIMBYS and too many regulations into too many regulations. NIMBYS in Calfornia only have power because of the climate of over-regulation. Nobody wants a large apartment complex near their house, but whereas other states residents have to accept society's needs, Californians can go to court under the guise of environmentalism or other red tape legislation.

dales5050 Jul 9, 2015 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7089327)
Article says SD is third most suburban large city in US behind San Antonio and Phoenix... Uh Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Orlando are all 2 million plus metro areas that are far less urban than SD. I think our numbers get skewed because of military bases, canyons, Mission Trails, Regional park, Mission Bay, etc. Is SD suburban yes of course but not 3rd most in US by a long shot.


You're absolutely right on this. Have spent considerable time in both San Diego and Charlotte and while they are very different cities, San Diego is much more urban.

In San Diego, you have these lovely pockets of urban areas all over the city. To an outsider, it feels disjointed because there is not a lot of connections between each (due to the canyons) but this actually is what makes it special. Each of these pockets have their own personality and community.

In Charlotte, the city is pretty much on a radial grid and while everything is connected, outside of just a few pockets, it's all the same. Just another strip mall or two, made of brick of course, and maybe a single historic building.

The reason why Charlotte may be considered more urban is it has a single core, whereas SD has multiple, and in this core they are building much greater density. That said, a regions urbanism should be judged by the weakest link not the strongest.

Streamliner Jul 9, 2015 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7089327)
Then what the heck is up on I-15 from Adams to University they are putting in a bus lane??? I noticed they are tearing out the freeway bushes right now.

That looks to be part of the Mid-City BRT line, they are putting in freeway level stations that will connect to the main street levels at University Ave and El Cajon Blvd. They just broke ground yesterday I think.

http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/I-...ects_SR15.aspx

Graphics:

http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/Li...ages.sflb.ashx

spoonman Jul 9, 2015 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7089327)
--- Article says SD is third most suburban large city in US behind San Antonio and Phoenix... Uh Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Tampa, Indianapolis, and Orlando are all 2 million plus metro areas that are far less urban than SD. I think our numbers get skewed because of military bases, canyons, Mission Trails, Regional park, Mission Bay, etc. Is SD suburban yes of course but not 3rd most in US by a long shot.

I take issue with the study for a few reasons...
  1. The other cities in the comparison (besides Phoenix and San Antonio) were NY, LA, Boston, Philly, Chicago, SF, etc. These are cities with much more pre-war development...of course SD is quite urban, but we all know it is not yet as urban as these cities.
  2. Also, this article was based on a survey asking people whether they felt their area was urban or suburban. Your guess is as good as mine, but I suspect many retiree types identified more with suburban...the types that still think it is the 1950's in San Diego. We have a lot of them.
  3. This city has a bit of an inferiority complex, never thinking it is as worthy as other places like LA or SF.


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.