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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Urbanize_It Jan 24, 2014 7:27 PM

The new Downtown Circulator Shuttle...what does everyone think of the routes? I think they are ok, but wish one line went down Market and then up into Golden Hill. Oh, and the "green" line doing a huge loop around Petco is kinda lame.

<a href="http://s1110.photobucket.com/user/MDUNCAN10/media/CirculatorMap.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h443/MDUNCAN10/CirculatorMap.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo CirculatorMap.jpg"/></a>

http://www.civicsd.com/images/storie...or_Shuttle.pdf

tyleraf Jan 24, 2014 7:49 PM

I guess the lines are good enough. Hopefully ridership is good enough to merit eventual replacement by streetcars.

Nerv Jan 24, 2014 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyleraf (Post 6420245)
Wow! 15th and Island looks great. I can't wait to see it start to make an impact.

Me too.:D

It will be so nice to see the east village finally get a little height to it and a good looking building as well.

I really hope tower two gets built as well.:tup:

Nerv Jan 24, 2014 9:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.DviaPhilly (Post 6419668)
With all this talk of 15th and Island, I took a stroll over there today and snapped a couple pics. Solid progress!

View from 14th in between Island and J
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...pse2856a21.jpg

View from J in between 14th and 15th
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ps19ee6031.jpg




View from corner of 15th and J
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...psfe32ac5f.jpg




Thanks for the photos. :D


Is there any word as to what the ground level retail might be?

Streamliner Jan 24, 2014 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 6421324)

Nice to see some old projects come back.

According to the article, there will be a park across the street on 4th Avenue. Anyone have info on this?

Leo the Dog Jan 25, 2014 12:42 AM

Love the old house in the foreground.

Leo the Dog Jan 25, 2014 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerogt3 (Post 6420581)
Big +1 to your realism. I lived in the east village for 3 years, and it was annoying how empty the city is outside of bars on 5th. Almost ALL the ground floor spots in the flashy high rises are empty, but the older, low and mid rise buildings are all filled out with tennants. The neighborhood feels really dead other than Friday and Saturday nights.

There are lots of neighborhoods with zero high rises in San Francisco, but great city life because the area is filled out and inhabited by businesses. I'd rather have a stadium and modest developments wasting high rise land but creating a busy neighborhood than parking lots and empty gigantic towers.

How would a football stadium make the East Village a lively place? I understand the need for more modest developments, but a behemoth football stadium would just create a mega-block dead zone.

Football stadiums are suburban structures. They require huge amounts of open land for surface parking to tailgate. They're used maybe 10 times/year. This would do the exact opposite of what you desire.

Edit: if you're referring to PetCo, then I'm totally with you. MLB/NBA venues are great in urban locations. NFL, not so great.

Bertrice Jan 25, 2014 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6421779)
How would a football stadium make the East Village a lively place? I understand the need for more modest developments, but a behemoth football stadium would just create a mega-block dead zone.

Football stadiums are suburban structures. They require huge amounts of open land for surface parking to tailgate. They're used maybe 10 times/year. This would do the exact opposite of what you desire.


No one is seeing it from the sports fan perspective.
65-68K taking the trolley :haha:

Northparkwizard Jan 26, 2014 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrice (Post 6421791)
No one is seeing it from the sports fan perspective.
65-68K taking the trolley :haha:

According to this source http://www.comic-con.org/about 130,000 make it to comic con annually over consecutive days without much grief. The bus system is pretty darn good however we can do a lot better. Additionally, most folks stay in the city during that weekend. What makes you think that our MTS can't support a stadium downtown? Speculation? Honest question.

WCArch Jan 26, 2014 9:34 PM

Its great to see this new development in SD. I stayed at the Doubletree in Mission Valley around Christmas and took a walk through Downtown. Its a great sign seeing those cranes! Also, the new Holiday Inn Bayside tower looks great. Hadn't been past it since July.

Btw, this new Architecture blog will have a ton of information about architecture in San Diego. Its brand new and only has 4 posts as of yet but it will cover projects and developments all across the west coast :cool:

http://westcoastarch.blogspot.com/

Leo the Dog Jan 27, 2014 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northparkwizard (Post 6423349)
According to this source http://www.comic-con.org/about 130,000 make it to comic con annually over consecutive days without much grief. The bus system is pretty darn good however we can do a lot better. Additionally, most folks stay in the city during that weekend. What makes you think that our MTS can't support a stadium downtown? Speculation? Honest question.

Have you ever tail gated before? It's an all-day event...long before kickoff. The NFL is a different species than MLB. Tailgating requires open space...ie: parking lots.

it's not a question of MTS being able to handle game day traffic, we know this is the case bc MTS serves the Q already.

SDCAL Jan 27, 2014 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6421779)
How would a football stadium make the East Village a lively place? I understand the need for more modest developments, but a behemoth football stadium would just create a mega-block dead zone.

Football stadiums are suburban structures. They require huge amounts of open land for surface parking to tailgate. They're used maybe 10 times/year. This would do the exact opposite of what you desire.

Edit: if you're referring to PetCo, then I'm totally with you. MLB/NBA venues are great in urban locations. NFL, not so great.

Agree with this 100%.

WCArch Jan 27, 2014 12:55 AM

There is some brief information and renderings/floorplans of the new Convention Center expansion at:

http://westcoastarch.blogspot.com/20...l?view=classic

:rolleyes:

SDCAL Jan 27, 2014 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 6417277)
Why are you guys so fixated on taller buildings? I know this is a "skyscraper" forum, but isn't a healthy, urban environment more important?

I think both height and a healthy urban core are both important for different reasons.

When you are actually downtown, height doesn't matter so much, what does matter is the street environment/experience.

I think height becomes important more when talking about skyline views - how the world who can't visit sees us in photos. Also, how we view the downtown skyline from other neighborhoods within the city (though this may be less important for SD due to our many hills which segment the city and block out skyline views from many areas, as opposed to a flat city like Chicago where you see the visual impact of the skyline all around it).

My worry is that the height limit is giving us a "plateau" effect to the skyline. It would look better to have more variety and more height.

But I totally get what you mean about the ground level urban experience. Other than the Gaslamp and Little Italy which seem to have little vacant storefronts, EV still has many and it does hinder the urban experience.

One example, TR Produce building - approaching a decade since it was redeveloped (7 or 8 years?), prime location right across from Petco park, and not a single tenant in the ground level ever since it was redeveloped :???::???:

Bertrice Jan 27, 2014 1:24 AM

The Q has some 19,000 spaces. The somewhat "proposed" EV site has??
Its not just the fans that attend games. I worked at charger games so there are several thousand working the event. Media ,food ,security etc. chargers/nfl can build a new concrete bowl next to the old one with the trolley and 3 major freeways next to it.

Northparkwizard Jan 27, 2014 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6424052)
Have you ever tail gated before? It's an all-day event...long before kickoff. The NFL is a different species than MLB. Tailgating requires open space...ie: parking lots.

it's not a question of MTS being able to handle game day traffic, we know this is the case bc MTS serves the Q already.

Yes I have tailgated before and I understand the differences between the culture surrounding the two sports however massive parking lots aren't necessary, ideal, but not necessary. ie: the Mercedes-Benz Superdome in New Orleans has a larger capacity than the Q with very limited parking. It seems to work fine there.

That being said you can also drink in the streets on New Orleans which basically makes the entire city a tailgate parking lot. Nice.

The Mission Valley site obviously makes more sense and I'm not advocating for either site but building in the EV wouldn't be unprecedented. I'd just ride my bike to games.

To digress for a moment, anyone know if the "sky park" at the proposed convention center expansion would be open to the public year-round or only for conventioneers?

Nerv Jan 27, 2014 8:38 AM

Although I'd favor the Q still as the best site to keep the Chargers I think both the city and the Chargers need to build the new stadium in the place that is the most likely to get done.

Regardless of where it gets built the tailgating in San Diego IS going to change from what it currently is. Downtown would give you tailgating in the city as noted but even if the Q is the site where they rebuild the new stadium no way in hell is any project going to work rebuilding the new stadium with all that existing parking space we have today. They'll build the new stadium with a parking structure and develop the rest of the space. It's the only way to make the $$$ work. Tailgating in a parking structure? Yeah, tailgating is going to change one way or another.


As to the cities height limit I blame the lame FAA. There's no reason not to exceed the 500 foot limit in parts like East Village.

How smart is it to have your emergency landing go through one of the 10 largest cities in the US with 500 foot buildings already? The thought of placing a plane that is having "issues" going through downtown high rises has never given me warm fuzzy feelings...:runaway:

That said, even if San Diego could build taller it doesn't mean anyone would be lining up in large numbers to build 500+ structures. We aren't New York. Don't need to be either. San Francisco and Los Angeles both have buildings over 500 feet and both pale in comparison to cities like New York or Hong Kong. They'll never have a skyline close to it either. So yeah, like everyone here I'd love to see a building one day break that 500 foot limit but I also know the quality of San Diego's downtown and how it's viewed by others depends on many other factors.


I've never heard anyone say I'm not going to San Diego ever cuz' the buildings there are to short. Lol

It's about the weather,the sights, the food, what there is to do and how much fun it is. Downtown needs to give people a reason to want to visit or live there. I lived in New York and when I visit it's because it's fun and there's a lot to do. Not because I have the urge to see some really massive buildings....:D

aerogt3 Jan 27, 2014 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6421779)
I understand the need for more modest developments, but a behemoth football stadium would just create a mega-block dead zone.

I think a stadium "mega block dead zone" is still better than a bus maintenance yard and a square mil of blank asphault.

Keeping in mind that it can be developed in a way that it serves multiple purposes. The "park in the park" at Petco is a good example. It's pretty well integrated into the city, and if you take a satellite view look of it, it's not taking up much space.

tyleraf Jan 27, 2014 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 6424549)
As to the cities height limit I blame the lame FAA. There's no reason not to exceed the 500 foot limit in parts like East Village.

What's amazing is that the city set the 500ft limit. The FAA only requires that no building is over 700 ft within 2 miles of the runway. So maybe we can start a good lobbying effort and get at least a small boost.

WCArch Jan 27, 2014 6:47 PM

Height isn't everything. Phoenix doesnt have height but downtown Phoenix is awful because there are no lowrises or midrises in between the highrises. Compare that to San Diego, which has many diverse neighborhoods that are dense and modern. I love Downtown San Diego, it is very contemporary but also allows for a sense of place. An urban football stadium has its pros and cons, and compromises would have to be made.

Im not saying that an urban setting is better than a suburban setting, but in the right place, with the right design, a stadium will succeed. Take University of Phoenix Stadium for example. Most didn't like the idea of having a stadium 25-30 miles from Downtown Phoenix, especially with the potential revenue from Super Bowls and BCS championships and such. However, the stadium opened in an area of Glendale that was rural farmland, and now it is quickly turning into a center for sports, entertainment, and food. Following the construction of UofP Stadium, Westgate (an entertainment district), a 5 star hotel, a brand new outlet mall, condos and lofts, 2 movie theaters, lifestyle centers, and hotels were built, with much more under construction now. The parking lot for the stadium keeps getting torn up to build more hotels, restaurants, or apartment complex and no one complains about a potential lack of tailgating space. A casino and resort has been proposed across the freeway and Glendale will host it's 2nd Super Bowl in 7 years.

Anyways, my point is that a NEW stadium will urbanize an area quickly. It will pump money into the economy, give publicity to a neighborhood, and draw visitors to an area. U of P Stadium hosts exhibitions, concerts, high school tournaments, college bowl games, etc during the times when the Cardinals arent in town. Before it, that area of Glendale was dead. And now, it is an important economic, sports, and entertainment center for Metro Phoenix and the West Valley.


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