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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Nerv Jul 4, 2013 5:38 PM

I'm a big supporter of having mass transit in San Diego. I do however understand the problems the city is facing getting it done. The actual size of the city with its population spread out being the biggest obstacle. I lived in New York and have to listen to friends remarks about how poor our transit is compared to the east coast. At he same time they're in awe of how large area wise our single city is. We might be four cities if we sat in the east. I believe our last fire covered a area larger than New York and it was less than 10% of the county in size. The spread out population is also why we're not getting a rail line like the coaster along the 15. As long as the city continues to do something of a plan with mass transit that includes several aspects (trolley,train,bus,etc...) and not put all their eggs in one basket I'm happy with that progress. I was in favor of expanding the 5 too but not into some super,super giant freeway. Just a normal expansion.

Look there's a bottom line getting people to use mass transit vs the car. It means using your car driving is such a pain in the ass with traffic,cost,etc... And the mass transit options is the better deal to use. Ask someone in New York about driving somewhere vs using the transit and it comes down to the human nature of picking the easiest option. Any transit official will tell you the public almost has to be forced out of their cars into mass transit if cars are what they are accustomed to.

Bertrice Jul 4, 2013 6:36 PM

with all the dui checkpoints around the beach. I think the trolley to pb/lj will have a huge impact. I'm more likey to go to gaslamp/petco and get loaded more often. The old town station is a pain to park there. plus a lot of the UC students are foreigners w/o cars.

aerogt3 Jul 5, 2013 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 6187003)
I'm a big supporter of having mass transit in San Diego. I do however understand the problems the city is facing getting it done. The actual size of the city with its population spread out being the biggest obstacle. I lived in New York and have to listen to friends remarks about how poor our transit is compared to the east coast. At he same time they're in awe of how large area wise our single city is. We might be four cities if we sat in the east. I believe our last fire covered a area larger than New York and it was less than 10% of the county in size. The spread out population is also why we're not getting a rail line like the coaster along the 15. As long as the city continues to do something of a plan with mass transit that includes several aspects (trolley,train,bus,etc...) and not put all their eggs in one basket I'm happy with that progress. I was in favor of expanding the 5 too but not into some super,super giant freeway. Just a normal expansion.

Look there's a bottom line getting people to use mass transit vs the car. It means using your car driving is such a pain in the ass with traffic,cost,etc... And the mass transit options is the better deal to use. Ask someone in New York about driving somewhere vs using the transit and it comes down to the human nature of picking the easiest option. Any transit official will tell you the public almost has to be forced out of their cars into mass transit if cars are what they are accustomed to.

Exactly! That's a reasonable post and quite refreshing from the "square transit peg into a round SD hole" attitude you find around here. Transit will certainly work well in dense PARTS of San Diego, but not the whole region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrice (Post 6187137)
with all the dui checkpoints around the beach. I think the trolley to pb/lj will have a huge impact. I'm more likey to go to gaslamp/petco and get loaded more often. The old town station is a pain to park there. plus a lot of the UC students are foreigners w/o cars.

I think a trolley line to the airport, OB, Zoo, PB, and La Jolla would attract good ridership. I've always wondered why the hell it didn't go there!

202_Cyclist Jul 5, 2013 11:39 AM

Does anyone here on this forum use Car2Go? I use it here in DC all of the time and used one of the electric Car2Go Smart Car's when we were in San Diego last summer. It is a great way to improve mobility and reduce some of the environmental impacts of driving.

bmfarley Jul 5, 2013 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerogt3 (Post 6186558)
I don't think you understand how big SD is and how long it would take people to get between two points using mass transit. You need stations close to people to attract ridership. But stations that frequently make for long journey and/or many connections with bus, private car, etc. It make sense in core SD but not in the metro region as a hole.

You are going to spend a shitload of money to provide a service no better than just running buses along freeway HOV lanes, with feeder buses taking people to destinations. The difference is running buses on existing infrastructure is hundreds of times cheaper than building an entire rail system.



A rail system big enough to get major ridership running 15 minutes is something that only happens in very large, very dense cities. You are dreaming on this.

Barcelona has the transit you are looking for. Have a look at it and SD on google maps at the same scale....

I understand the size and geography of San Diego quite well, and, I also understand your point concerning the ridership tradeoffs for access versus added travel time. Transportation Planning 101.

Though, I respectfully disagree with you. Granted, San Diego has physical challenges and bridging its barriers will cost buttloads of funding. Moreover, the San Diego regional funding machine has given a cold shoulder to Rail Transit. Though, where there is a will, there can also be the means.

IMO, San Diego is now, or will soon be, of sufficient size to merit significant expansion. Take a look at the previously provided population stats above and there's an obvious Trent. Further, projections are available through the year 2050 or 2060. Huge numbers.

I'd agree that the Trolley is a better model for denser areas and more closely spaced stops and a different model would be necessary for connecting the far distant locations... Oceanside, Escondido, San Diego, etc. What that model is, is debatable.

Nerv Jul 5, 2013 10:19 PM

San Diego is probably a city that will have to grow into its mass transit systems.
As long as the city continues to put the pieces in place it will probably be OK.

One thing that might strengthen the transit system could be projects like the Palomar Station going up along the Sprinter line in San Marcos. It's expected by several of the cities that dot along the Sprinter line that as the economy continues to pick up more development like this will follow.

I guess we'll have to wait and see though...

Here's a link for anyone interested: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...lomar-station/

Bertrice Jul 6, 2013 2:42 AM

http://beautifulpb.com/pbparks/wp-co...Conceptual.jpg
Pb planning group proposal
http://beautifulpb.com/pbparks/

HurricaneHugo Jul 6, 2013 3:02 AM

Have any of you guys heard about expanding the 94?

Apparently my sister heard about it at a community block party.

Something about expanding the freeway and possibly put a lid on it like the one on the 15.

Interesting if true

Nerv Jul 6, 2013 7:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 6188891)
Have any of you guys heard about expanding the 94?

Apparently my sister heard about it at a community block party.

Something about expanding the freeway and possibly put a lid on it like the one on the 15.

Interesting if true


Not sure if this is what you're looking for:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/facts/94Express.pdf

phoenixboi08 Jul 6, 2013 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 6187003)
Any transit official will tell you the public almost has to be forced out of their cars into mass transit if cars are what they are accustomed to.

More like "priced" out of their cars...:runaway:

SDfan Jul 6, 2013 6:14 PM

How do we feel about this?

Quote:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/...-jack-rebuild/

Filner jacked up about Jack
Mayor accuses restaurant of misleading city on North Park project

Jack In the Box, famous for its secret sauce, found itself in hot water Friday as Mayor Bob Filner moved to stop work on a restaurant remodel in North Park. The 62-year-old restaurant at 30th and Upas streets is being rebuilt with its drive-through lane remaining. Filner said that violates the North Park planning and zoning rules against drive-throughs as a way to reduce car dependence and promote walkability.
At first my "another NIMBY reactionary moment" kicked in, but after reading the reasoning behind the community opposition, I can appreciate and understand their efforts to get rid of the drive-through window at Upas.

I'm still a bit milfed that Filner wouldn't just send someone from his admin to deal with this issue, rather than making this some huge public spectacle. I mean, it's not like he doesn't have a huge list of other, more pressing problems to deal with. I can respect his interest in micro-community issues and planning, but I want a mayor who can delegate responsibilities to other capable officials, while tackling the major problems that our city faces (which there are many). I don't think a Jack n' the Box renovation in one neighborhood is really up there with multi-million dollar budget deficits, broad government structural reforms, and macro-economic problems in greater-San Diego.

SDfan Jul 6, 2013 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrice (Post 6188873)

This looks pleasant. I think PB is a lovely area, but with serious infrastructure and development deficiencies. It's really been held back by both municipal neglect and community opposition to growth - the latter more understandable when the former is precedent.

SDfan Jul 6, 2013 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 6189062)
Not sure if this is what you're looking for:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/facts/94Express.pdf

Please let Alternative 1 happen! The left hand transitions from 94 E to 15/805 N are ridiculous and go against federal highway standards.

Nerv Jul 6, 2013 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 6189322)
How do we feel about this?



At first my "another NIMBY reactionary moment" kicked in, but after reading the reasoning behind the community opposition, I can appreciate and understand their efforts to get rid of the drive-through window at Upas.


What's changed for residents? It had a drive through window before the ban anyway so it's not like another one was added after the ban. If a community feels the need to place bans when they have problems,cool. I don't like it when residents then feel the need to go after the existing businesses to try and force them out. Look, Jack in the Box was there for what, 62 years? How many residents have been there that long? Sorry, I respect city bans but this story sounded like the bitching of airport noise after you move next to the airport. The people are mad not because of rules not being followed ( if that is even the case) they're mad because they want Jack in the Box out of there because it still has a drive through window. We'd live in a different world if we could also ban residents by a vote like we seem to do businesses we don't like.:D

SDfan Jul 6, 2013 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 6189370)
What's changed for residents? It had a drive through window before the ban anyway so it's not like another one was added after the ban. If a community feels the need to place bans when they have problems,cool. I don't like it when residents then feel the need to go after the existing businesses to try and force them out. Look, Jack in the Box was there for what, 62 years? How many residents have been there that long? Sorry, I respect city bans but this story sounded like the bitching of airport noise after you move next to the airport. The people are mad not because of rules not being followed ( if that is even the case) they're mad because they want Jack in the Box out of there because it still has a drive through window. We'd live in a different world if we could also ban residents by a vote like we seem to do businesses we don't like.:D

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the residents of North Park, but I do understand them. I believe that communities evolve, as change is constant, and that sometimes their needs to be an understanding between residents, businesses and government authorities as to what is and is not acceptable in a neighborhood as time goes by.

62 years ago, the expansion of private transportation was rapid. Drive-through windows were new and revolutionary. However, North Park has evolved, and is trying to move further towards a more pedestrian-oriented community. I don't see anything wrong with that.

While I don't like the idea of hurting successful businesses that provide economic stimulus to the local economy and services to its residences, there comes a time when that evolution needs to happen in order to create a more cohesive community.

Overall though, if the restaurant stays or goes is no big deal to me (I don't eat there, nor do I live in NP).

Flyer75 Jul 7, 2013 2:47 AM

You have no idea, do you?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrice (Post 6182599)
what's the appeal for locals to go to BP? I've been once in ten years.

Bertrice, you need a little culture in your life. It's not about a park, it's about what there is to see and do and feel....get it? Stay away for BP, we don't need people like you who can't appreciate beauty...

HurricaneHugo Jul 7, 2013 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerv (Post 6189062)
Not sure if this is what you're looking for:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist11/facts/94Express.pdf

Thanks!

The North 15/West 94 is pretty dangerous! As well as the left hand exits!

mello Jul 8, 2013 6:18 AM

Something definitely needs to be done in PB, it is looking very run down and tired. It really needs modernization. People from Miami must laugh so hard when they come here and think "this is San Diego's beach community". I'm not calling for high rises like South Florida but I feel they would be acceptable at the Surfrider and Beach Cottages hotel properties. Those two beasts from the 50's are a joke and we could use some nice glassy modern towers there for sure.

Leo the Dog Jul 8, 2013 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 6190505)
Something definitely needs to be done in PB, it is looking very run down and tired. It really needs modernization. People from Miami must laugh so hard when they come here and think "this is San Diego's beach community". I'm not calling for high rises like South Florida but I feel they would be acceptable at the Surfrider and Beach Cottages hotel properties. Those two beasts from the 50's are a joke and we could use some nice glassy modern towers there for sure.

I couldn't agree with you more. PB is looking ratty and seems to be getting more trashy with each passing year. its starting to look like the Jersey Shore. There is no reason for the premier beach town to be in this shape.

202_Cyclist Jul 8, 2013 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6190864)
I couldn't agree with you more. PB is looking ratty and seems to be getting more trashy with each passing year. its starting to look like the Jersey Shore. There is no reason for the premier beach town to be in this shape.

Exactly right. Perhaps a few less dudes/bros. We went to Pacific Beach for an afternoon when we visited San Diego last summer. San Diego was very enjoyable but Pacific Beach felt a bit like Dewey Beach of the west coast.


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