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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

kpexpress Sep 28, 2008 9:20 AM

Tonight I snuck into the Padre Parkade to get some shots of the fog rolling in.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05143.jpg

And happened to notice the roof of the old drunk tank has started to be dismantled.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/DSC05154.jpg
Looks like some great progress in a rather stagnate development air (despite what's going on two blocks to the West).

kpexpress Sep 28, 2008 9:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 3826884)
I mean it shouldn't really be an issue. Pick the 1000000 year old shitty white bricks with barbed wire fencing and crumbling parking lots or a nice little waterfront development. Is it the best? No. Is it better than what's there? Yes. Can we get better? Not with the way this city is run, so sometimes you just need to take what you get.


:banana:

The parking lots between the developed city and the waterfront just kills me. Does that not bother everyone downtown (including the people who make key decisions as to what happens there)?

Fusey Sep 28, 2008 5:27 PM

^ That parking lot is the number one complaint I've heard from tourists coming off the cruise ships. That's some of the best real estate in the entire city and it confuses me to no end how a surface parking lot has been there all these years. Think about it from a tourists' viewpoint: as you come into the bay you see Point Loma (awesome), then Coronado (awesome), then a gigantic parking lot. Ugh...

malsponger Sep 28, 2008 6:58 PM

The water front has so much potential. If it were properly developed it would easily steal the show from the gaslamp primarily because you have direct water access. This is the biggest waste of space i've seen. However, people must realize the extent of this development would be in the billions of dollars so it's no easy task, even after all negotiations, permits, etc.. It would also need to be done right for high density and not just aesthetically. Factor in what downtown might need to accommodate in 20 years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ponger/wf2.jpg

bmfarley Sep 28, 2008 7:51 PM

Talk of the Navy Broadway complex is great. I look forward to its development; it'll be a huge improvement for the area.

That said, I am not aware of any plans to do something different than what has already been presented by the Navy and Manchester; only that additional public feedback is sought in accordance per direction from a judge.

Though, I would like to see some changes. Namely, that it be designed to be more accomodating for local nightlife rather than cater too much to tourist industry (or so it seems).

malsponger Sep 28, 2008 8:04 PM

Do you have a link to detailed renderings of the project?

bmfarley Sep 28, 2008 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malsponger (Post 3827404)
Do you have a link to detailed renderings of the project?

Here are some great links for ya:

CCDC Navy Broadway Complex Project Page

The beginning (pg 4 of 4 looks sweet):
2006 Proposal

The Latest?:
2007 Proposal: Plan View and Sweet Photo-Looking Plan View Images

2007 Proposal: Building Images

kpexpress Sep 28, 2008 9:55 PM

Funny how on the CCDC's homepage it says, "Never underestimate the power of the waterfront."

Should say, "Never underestimate the power of the parking lot"

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...waterfront.jpg

kpexpress Sep 28, 2008 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malsponger (Post 3827324)
The water front has so much potential. If it were properly developed it would easily steal the show from the gaslamp primarily because you have direct water access. This is the biggest waste of space i've seen. However, people must realize the extent of this development would be in the billions of dollars so it's no easy task, even after all negotiations, permits, etc.. It would also need to be done right for high density and not just aesthetically. Factor in what downtown might need to accommodate in 20 years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ponger/wf2.jpg

And wouldn't it be great if we could get the Port Authority to ACTUALLY go through with building the Historic Harbor Design Proposal of Rob Quigley

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...42/Harbor2.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...s42/harbor.jpg

I love this design cause it really lets the water "touch" the city grid and bring us all closer to the jewel of downtown. Look specifically at the changes that will occur to seaport village and the embarcedero parks.

What do you all think about this design?

malsponger Sep 28, 2008 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 3827447)


Thanks, great use of that space in my opinion. Now the question is if it will happen soon. That with Lane Field and Irvine Company building I think will be by far the best part of downtown. It will revolve around the train station so will be the most accessible too.

HurricaneHugo Sep 29, 2008 3:19 AM

Disagree on the Irvine Company building...

bmfarley Sep 29, 2008 5:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 3827625)
And wouldn't it be great if we could get the Port Authority to ACTUALLY go through with building the Historic Harbor Design Proposal of Rob Quigley

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...s42/harbor.jpg

I love this design cause it really lets the water "touch" the city grid and bring us all closer to the jewel of downtown. Look specifically at the changes that will occur to seaport village and the embarcedero parks.

What do you all think about this design?

Well, I always thought it looked silly and not functional. Is it really practical to think the marina dock would retract and expand to let boats in or out of that little harbor? Who manages such a thing? Would boater need to pay a toll? Or, is it a kiddy bay for would-be tike sailors? Or, are submarines the 'new' thing expected?

malsponger Sep 29, 2008 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 3828222)
Disagree on the Irvine Company building...

I agree that Irvine Company building is hideous but something there is better than a surface lot. Not to mention i'm sure from a pedestrian experience, the Irvine Company project will at least offer some fill.

HurricaneHugo Sep 30, 2008 8:31 AM

It covers our one iconic building...

kpexpress Oct 1, 2008 5:59 AM

it COMPLETELY covers up our only "not-a-box" iconic office building.

I never thought that I would ever say this, but if it IS just a box with a crown (like that has never been done) I would want it to be shorter than planned as to not cover up the crown of America Plaza.

Has anyone ever emailed the Irvine people questioning their plans for such a bland design for a lot that screams "new city icon"?

malsponger Oct 1, 2008 4:17 PM

The only problem is that if this city wants height, it's impossible not to cover things up. Though One America Plaza is a great beautiful building in my opinion, sit that next to the iconic buildings in other cities. At 500 feet, it might reach to it's first tier. With our height restriction we really limit ourselves and if this city wants desinity, there is little choice than to make all buildings around 500 ft, therefore covering others. It seems like it's already getting covered up with Electra, Bayside and Sapphire, then you know the Irvine Company lot behind One America Plaza is too prime to not put another 500 footer there. It would simply be a waste of space in my opinion if we did not use these lots most effectively as possible. I'd like to see a real downtown in San Diego one day, not just a bunch of high rise luxury condos. If we do not pack more meat in, in terms of commercial space, this won't happen. So, though i'd like to preserve the view of America Plaza, at only 500 ft, it's not likely that will hapen. Though I agree in putting something big in these places, the building planned is hideous, despite such talent working behind it. The last thing I want to see is another one of these:
http://www.emporis.com/images/6/2006/06/463742.jpg
http://www.emporis.com/images/6/2006/04/453392.jpg
In other news, I see that Vantage Pointe is just about topped off. The top fin is completely shaped and they might just be topping off the elevator shafts before the formwork comes off.

SDCAL Oct 1, 2008 5:45 PM

IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME THEY DID SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Horton Plaza
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont.../horton280.jpg

$50 million project designed to make downtown center less of a fortress
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

October 1, 2008

Horton Plaza will no longer turn its back to the rest of downtown San Diego.
Owner Westfield Corp. plans a $50 million makeover at downtown's first big shopping center, built in the 1980s when south of Broadway meant tattoo parlors, pawn shops and adult bookstores.



Westfield
An artist's rendering of the proposed renovation of Horton Plaza shows the view from Broadway Circle to the mall's entrance.


NANCEE E. LEWIS / Union-Tribune
Horton Plaza's owner wants to renovate the mall, which faces a small public park that features a fountain.
Back then, the center was designed as a fortress, with blank walls facing First and Fourth avenues. It was meant to make shoppers feel safe inside with their money.

These days, after a downtown renaissance sparked in part by Horton Plaza, Westfield feels it's time to embrace the street.

Plans filed yesterday show glass storefronts facing outward. A modern-looking, white facade would replace the pastel stucco walls on Broadway and Fourth Avenue. The Australia-based owner wants to start early next year and finish in early 2010.

Westfield is parking a big chunk of capital in San Diego with this and other projects.

It is spending $900 million to recast Westfield UTC in La Jolla as a “walkable village” with housing, offices and more retail space. A plan for a similar makeover at Westfield Mission Valley was filed in August.

Senior Vice President Jonathan Bradhurst said the company likes to hold on to its properties and spruce them up when needed.

Westfield, billed as the largest retail developer in the world, considers San Diego a valuable piece of its $63 billion portfolio, which includes North County mall in Escondido, Plaza Camino Real in Carlsbad, Plaza Bonita in National City and Parkway mall in El Cajon.

Despite the turmoil on Wall Street, Bradhurst said Westfield has $7 billion in funding available for its global pipeline of construction projects.




Horton Plaza timeline

1972: Horton Plaza redevelopment project approved.

1974: Ernest W. Hahn Inc. signs exclusive negotiating agreement.

1978: Proposition 13 tax-cutting measure passes, requiring renegotiation of agreement; Hahn plans to buy land for $1 million and build and operate parking structure.

1980: Hahn company sold to Trizec Ltd. of Canada.

1982: Financing completed, construction begins.

1985: Project opens with 51 stores on Aug. 9; United Artists seven-screen cinema opens in December.

1989: Lyceum Theaters open.

1992: City Council approves construction of Horton Fourth Avenue, a housing and retail project that will cover up the Horton Plaza parking garage.

1998: Westfield America buys Horton Plaza and other San Diego County shopping centers.

1998: Horton Plaza gets a makeover, including a paint job and other refurbishing.

2001: Planet Hollywood closes.

2005: Horton Plaza celebrates its 20th anniversary.

2008: Westfield announces $50 million exterior renovation.

Online: For more renderings of the proposed renovation of Horton Plaza, go to uniontrib.com/more/horton


“We are very conservative and when the market's hot, some would say we're too conservative. But when the market turns upside down, we tend to look pretty clever,” he said.

“What that means is we're able to just look and make the right decisions, and not perhaps be so swayed by the current volatility.”

San Diego real estate consultant Gary London said Westfield probably doesn't have a choice about this makeover if it wants to keep up with the times.

“I bet what they are really saying is in order to remain competitive, they need to spend the money. It's not really a question of do they have the money,” London said.

In its day, Horton Plaza was touted as a breakthrough blueprint for an urban mall. In recent years, it has suffered the departure of major tenants such as Planet Hollywood and Mervyns. The Broadway frontage that once boasted a Robinsons-May now has no street-level occupant.

Despite businesses flourishing around it, Horton Plaza seems to be suffering from a now-dated design.

“At the moment . . . it ain't pretty,” Bradhurst said. “My vision is this has got to be Main and Main in the center of San Diego. This is Fifth Avenue. This is (Chicago's) Michigan Avenue.”

The Horton Plaza makeover has been rumored for a year or more. Bradhurst said the company spent the time talking to customers about what they want. With downtown's population increasing by 13,000 people since 2000, there are more residents to serve in addition to the traditional tourist base.

The feedback: People want an easier-to-use mall, more restaurant options and places to buy housewares and electronics.

Westfield also knows that the shopping center's maze-like ramps need to go. Bradhurst compared them to the moving staircases in a recent Harry Potter movie. But that renovation won't come until later, he said. The famous fruit-and-vegetable-themed parking garage will not be touched.

The new plan is for medium-sized tenants, not department stores, facing Broadway, Fourth and Broadway Circle. Bradhurst wouldn't name names, but said it's not the “shopping cart” crowd.



AdvertisementAnother developer has proposed big-box shopping on the eastern edge of downtown with a home-improvement store and a Target-like store. Bradhurst said that project won't be a direct competitor.
Westfield is biting off a smaller chunk at Horton Plaza, instead of going for the mixed-use “village” concept it chose for the other San Diego malls.

Bradhurst isn't ignoring that possibility, but said the demand would have to be obvious.

Westfield is not asking for public funding, officials said. But this project might spur the city's downtown redevelopment agency to revamp a small public park in front of Horton Plaza on Broadway.

Today, the park's highlight is a colorful tiled fountain. Despite its prominent location, the park doesn't get much use by downtown workers or tourists because of an entrenched homeless population.

The city ripped out the grass there at one point to make it less attractive for homeless encampments, said David Allsbrook, assistant vice president at Centre City Development Corp. But it didn't really work.

“Once we know what Westfield's doing, we will probably want to do something to that park,” Allsbrook said. “Maybe spruce up the fountain.”

Mariobrotha Oct 1, 2008 5:47 PM

Here's the plan:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...t84/Horton.jpg

Me likes.

malsponger Oct 1, 2008 6:06 PM

This is direly needed. Talk about a great location and concept for a mall, yet, it's a pity it is the way it is. There is so much potential for that place if it wasn't so ugly and the layout wasn't so funky. I guess the only thing that will be holding it back will be the some of the lease holders that make it an inferior mall (in terms of public image) to Fashion Valley or UTC.

CoastersBolts Oct 1, 2008 7:58 PM

I almost jumped for joy when I saw that article about Horton Plaza in the U-T this morning. Something really needs to be done with the "public park with a fountain" where Planet Hollywood used to be. Being used as a homeless cesspool in the middle of downtown is really unattractive.

The picture of the Reed Elsevier building brings about a question I have about it. Was that building at one point renovated extensively? I ask because in Robert Cameron's coffee table picture book "Above San Diego", there is a building in that location that looks to be about the same size as the building currently standing. However, the picture shows the building as white, ugly, and having a big blue Union Bank sign on two sides.

I'd post a picture of what I'm talking about, but the book is up at my parents house.


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