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-   -   Is Doug Ford ''too Hoserish'' to run diverse Ontario? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239485)

Sarah89 Jun 18, 2019 11:07 PM

Is Doug Ford ''too Hoserish'' to run diverse Ontario?
 
Ontario is rapidly changing in its demographics and a Premier should reflect this. Why do we have a fat, white guy with a Hoser accent in charge? he's a thing of the past. We should have a person of colour in charge. This province is soon to be immigrant majority anyway. Send this Hoser packing back to the 1980's.

Acajack Jun 18, 2019 11:17 PM

Ouate de phoque?????

vid Jun 18, 2019 11:42 PM

Talking to a medical facility today that hasn't paid its bills to us since last winter, apparently OHIP decided to claw back a bunch of funding they'd received (around $15,000 a month was being taken from their bank account by OHIP) and left them in the red. It wasn't until the facility threatened to shut down (leaving all of Northwestern Ontario without the specialty services they provide) that OHIP relented and decided to extend the clawback period longer so that the financial penalties were smaller per month over a longer period of time. They'll be financially solvent again in the summer, but long-term they're still not sure they'll exist at the end of this term of government. Their AP person was literally crying on the phone. There is a bigger debate that we could have about the right of a business like this to actually charge users for its funding instead of being at the mercy of OHIP but when you consider the federal restrictions health care is subjected to, you can't help but feel that the direction the province is taking is unfair.

Is that hoserish? Is that a hoser thing? Do hosers do that? I love this province!!! :rolleyes: The number of lost customers due to offices being shut down, agencies closing due to lack of funding and people moving to other provinces because they've been laid off, fired or forced into early retirement has just passed four dozen at my work. Tell me again how good this is for business!

And let's not go into the non-profit sector, where Doug Ford's cuts have a silent but deadly affect. I know this won't be a major factor but it's certainly pushing people away from Conservative politics in general. If things are this bad under Doug Ford and only the federal Government is picking up the slack, what happens when the federal government stops picking up that slack? Doug Ford set a precedent that the government can come in during the middle of a budget year and take back money that had already been allocated to things. Will Andrew Scheer do that?

Sarah89 Jun 18, 2019 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid (Post 8609255)
Talking to a medical facility today that hasn't paid its bills to us since last winter, apparently OHIP decided to claw back a bunch of funding they'd received (around $15,000 a month was being taken from their bank account by OHIP) and left them in the red. It wasn't until the facility threatened to shut down (leaving all of Northwestern Ontario without the specialty services they provide) that OHIP relented and decided to extend the clawback period longer so that the financial penalties were smaller per month over a longer period of time. They'll be financially solvent again in the summer, but long-term they're still not sure they'll exist at the end of this term of government. Their AP person was literally crying on the phone. There is a bigger debate that we could have about the right of a business like this to actually charge users for its funding instead of being at the mercy of OHIP but when you consider the federal restrictions health care is subjected to, you can't help but feel that the direction the province is taking is unfair.

Is that hoserish? Is that a hoser thing? Do hosers do that? I love this province!!! :rolleyes: The number of lost customers due to offices being shut down, agencies closing due to lack of funding and people moving to other provinces because they've been laid off, fired or forced into early retirement has just passed four dozen at my work. Tell me again how good this is for business!

And let's not go into the non-profit sector, where Doug Ford's cuts have a silent but deadly affect. I know this won't be a major factor but it's certainly pushing people away from Conservative politics in general. If things are this bad under Doug Ford and only the federal Government is picking up the slack, what happens when the federal government stops picking up that slack? Doug Ford set a precedent that the government can come in during the middle of a budget year and take back money that had already been allocated to things. Will Andrew Scheer do that?

They voted this slob in, they deserve to suffer for it. Let the Carcinoma's befall Ford supporters and the OHIP surgery wait lists become stagnated. You vote conservative you get conservative style medicine and social services (or course we know what that is).

Doady Jun 19, 2019 2:02 AM

People were scared off from voting PC for so many years because of Mike Harris. And now they have Doug Ford. I think it's funny.

The problem with the PCs, just like the Republicans down south, is their inability to see the bigger picture. By their nature, they are always prioritising individual selfishness over the greater good, and they are always focusing on short term gain while ignoring the long term consequences. And those consequences are political as well. Probably the biggest opponents of Doug Ford should his own party because the biggest beneficiaries of Doug Ford as premier will ultimately be the Liberals. Already Ford is helping Trudeau.

That's why I don't mind Ford so much, the same way I don't mind Trump. If you look at the bigger picture, they might be doing us a favour. Short term pain for long term gain.

Loco101 Jun 19, 2019 4:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady (Post 8609385)
People were scared off from voting PC for so many years because of Mike Harris. And now they have Doug Ford. I think it's funny.

The problem with the PCs, just like the Republicans down south, is their inability to see the bigger picture. By their nature, they are always prioritising individual selfishness over the greater good, and they are always focusing on short term gain while ignoring the long term consequences. And those consequences are political as well. Probably the biggest opponents of Doug Ford should his own party because the biggest beneficiaries of Doug Ford as premier will ultimately be the Liberals. Already Ford is helping Trudeau.

That's why I don't mind Ford so much, the same way I don't mind Trump. If you look at the bigger picture, they might be doing us a favour. Short term pain for long term gain.

Quite true!

Loco101 Jun 19, 2019 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah89 (Post 8609226)
Ontario is rapidly changing in its demographics and a Premier should reflect this. Why do we have a fat, white guy with a Hoser accent in charge? he's a thing of the past. We should have a person of colour in charge. This province is soon to be immigrant majority anyway. Send this Hoser packing back to the 1980's.

I'm a fat white guy. Okay not as big as Doug Ford but still overweight. What does that matter? You want a person of colour in charge but are at the same time discriminating against someone's appearance?!?

Shouldn't you be focused on policies rather than appearance? Ontario is not set to be immigrant majority. Yes there will be more non-Caucasian people but I don't see us getting to a point where more than half of Ontarians were born outside Ontario.

What's a Hoser accent?!? I find Ford speaks the way he does because he's not well educated. Is that what Hoser means?

But I do have to tell you that for whatever reason, white males are quite popular in politics in Canada no matter which party. The Prime Minister and all provincial Premiers are white males. And many minorities voted for them.

Acajack Jun 19, 2019 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101 (Post 8609538)
I'm a fat white guy. Okay not as big as Doug Ford but still overweight. What does that matter? You want a person of colour in charge but are at the same time discriminating against someone's appearance?!?

Shouldn't you be focused on policies rather than appearance? Ontario is not set to be immigrant majority. Yes there will be more non-Caucasian people but I don't see us getting to a point where more than half of Ontarians were born outside Ontario.

What's a Hoser accent?!? I find Ford speaks the way he does because he's not well educated. Is that what Hoser means?

But I do have to tell you that for whatever reason, white males are quite popular in politics in Canada no matter which party. The Prime Minister and all provincial Premiers are white males. And many minorities voted for them.

I am astonished that it took several hours (and that a bunch of replies went by) before someone pointed out how racist the OP was.

wave46 Jun 19, 2019 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loco101 (Post 8609538)
I'm a fat white guy. Okay not as big as Doug Ford but still overweight. What does that matter? You want a person of colour in charge but are at the same time discriminating against someone's appearance?!?

Shouldn't you be focused on policies rather than appearance? Ontario is not set to be immigrant majority. Yes there will be more non-Caucasian people but I don't see us getting to a point where more than half of Ontarians were born outside Ontario.

What's a Hoser accent?!? I find Ford speaks the way he does because he's not well educated. Is that what Hoser means?

But I do have to tell you that for whatever reason, white males are quite popular in politics in Canada no matter which party. The Prime Minister and all provincial Premiers are white males. And many minorities voted for them.

+1

Doug's biggest problem is far from his skin colour or Y chromosome. He has many, many other flaws.

In fact, hating on him because he's white and male is likely counterproductive. It tends to make people 'circle the wagons' based on those topics, which is masks his other glaring flaws. Ontario is still ~50% male, last I checked.

Doady Jun 19, 2019 4:46 PM

Ford is the one always going on and on about he's governing "for the people", so I think OP actually kind of asks a fair question. Doug Ford does market himself anti-establishment even though he is part of the establishment. He comes from a very wealthy family but he presents himself as "average Joe". Somehow the people look at a guy with those kind of connections, who very visibly has an excessive lifestyle and lacks self-control, and then elect him to govern contrary all that.

Acajack Jun 19, 2019 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady (Post 8610001)
Ford is the one always going on and on about he's governing "for the people", so I think OP actually kind of asks a fair question. Doug Ford does market himself anti-establishment even though he is part of the establishment. He comes from a very wealthy family but he presents himself as "average Joe". Somehow the people look at a guy with those kind of connections, who very visibly has an excessive lifestyle and lacks self-control, and then elect him to govern contrary all that.

As much as I dislike Doug Ford, he's never played on the fact that he's a white guy and that people should vote for him based on that simple fact.

wave46 Jun 19, 2019 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady (Post 8610001)
Ford is the one always going on and on about he's governing "for the people", so I think OP actually kind of asks a fair question. Doug Ford does market himself anti-establishment even though he is part of the establishment. He comes from a very wealthy family but he presents himself as "average Joe". Somehow the people look at a guy with those kind of connections, who very visibly has an excessive lifestyle and lacks self-control, and then elect him to govern contrary all that.

Donald Trump did the same thing.

There is a certain appeal to having a fairly blunt 'good ol' boy' image that defies conventional political advice - taking a blunt stand on certain divisive issues as opposed to a more nuanced stance. It's an appeal to emotion as opposed to logic.

The problem tends to be when the rubber meets the road. "Taxes are too high and I'll cut them" is great political theater, but no politician will advocate - "I'll gut Medicare to pay for tax cuts".

Kathleen Wynne was playing the role of Hillary Clinton in the last Ontario election. She had absolutely no emotional weight to her campaign, it was all coldly logical.

I guess in the end that everybody needs a reminder that windbags are just that. Ontario is learning that lesson now.

Nouvellecosse Jun 19, 2019 5:19 PM

While a politician shouldn't be attacked at the individual level for being - or not being - of a particular racial or ethnic background, it's certainly a legitimate question to ask why a single racial/ethnic demographic subset of the population is disproportionately dominant in terms of leadership and governance while other demographics are under-represented. Maybe not from the perspective of any demographic "deserving" to be represented by someone more like them, but certainly in terms of their responsibility to contribute to and involve themselves in the difficult but important business of steering and leading a shared society in the best possible direction.

It seems to me that in order to actually want such a position one must truly feel connected to and rooted in a particular society and a lack of people with such feelings of shared responsibility within large swatches of social demographics signals a level of disconnectedness. I would argue that much the same would apply to a society with chronic low voter turn out and that disproportionately low rates among certain demographics (whether they be age, socio-economic, ethnic, racial, or other) is also worth exploring.

Acajack Jun 19, 2019 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse (Post 8610057)
While a politician shouldn't be attacked at the individual level for being - or not being - of a particular racial or ethnic background, it's certainly a legitimate question to ask why a single racial/ethnic demographic subset of the population is disproportionately dominant in terms of leadership and governance while other demographics are under-represented. Maybe not from the perspective of any demographic "deserving" to be represented by someone more like them, but certainly in terms of their responsibility to contribute to and involve themselves in the difficult but important business of steering and leading a shared society in the best possible direction.

It seems to me that in order to actually want such a position one must truly feel connected to and rooted in a particular society and a lack of people with such feelings of shared responsibility within large swatches of social demographics signals a level of disconnectedness. I would argue that much the same would apply to a society with chronic low voter turn out and that disproportionately low rates among certain demographics (whether they be age, socio-economic, ethnic, racial, or other) is also worth exploring.

These are good questions, but it's worth noting that Doug Ford gets singled out for/with this (presumably because people don't like him) whereas Justin Trudeau does not.

And I say this as someone who much prefers the latter over the former.

Doady Jun 19, 2019 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8610028)
As much as I dislike Doug Ford, he's never played on the fact that he's a white guy and that people should vote for him based on that simple fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8610096)
These are good questions, but it's worth noting that Doug Ford gets singled out for/with this (presumably because people don't like him) whereas Justin Trudeau does not.

And I say this as someone who much prefers the latter over the former.

Doug Ford keeps going on and on about "elites", "the establishment" vs. "the people", and it's kind of hard to talk about those sort of things while completely ignoring things like race or ethnicity as factors.

If you run a divisive campaign, don't be surprised if people get divided. The difference with Justin Trudeau is he did not campaign based on division.

Acajack Jun 19, 2019 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady (Post 8610204)
Doug Ford keeps going on and on about "elites", "the establishment" vs. "the people", and it's kind of hard to talk about those sort of things while completely ignoring things like race or ethnicity as factors.

.

Wow. I never knew that "élites" and "the establishment" were code words for racial and religious minorities in Ontario. Whoda thunk it?

How do we reconcile that with the obvious demographic makeup of most of the province's (and Toronto's) corporate senior managers and directorships, and even senior elected officials?

Doady Jun 19, 2019 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8610239)
Wow. I never knew that "élites" and "the establishment" were code words for racial and religious minorities in Ontario. Whoda thunk it?

I never said that. Don't fucking put words in my mouth.

Acajack Jun 19, 2019 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doady (Post 8610395)
I never said that. Don't fucking put words in my mouth.

At the very least you seem to have put people and concepts on the wrong sides of the equation. Or made false equivalencies. Reread your post, man.

Doady Jun 19, 2019 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8610399)
At the very least you seem to have put people and concepts on the wrong sides of the equation. Or made false equivalencies. Reread your post, man.

I never said anything of the sort. Learn to read or shut the fuck up.

Loco101 Jun 19, 2019 9:18 PM

Let me be clear that I had never liked any Ford Nation politician and cannot stand Doug Ford as Premier. I live in Northern Ontario so it shouldn't come as a surprise.

But I will say that Doug Ford was actually elected in his riding mostly by racial minorities and the PCs won a majority because of support from racial minorities.

Some left-leaning people make the huge mistake saying that it was only white people (Caucasians) who elected the Ford government. Ford's riding of Etobicoke North is 57.7% visible minorities.

Ford had huge support among black-Canadians, those of Asian background (esp Chinese, Filipino and Indian) and even among Muslims. Many forget that people in those groups are more conservative than the average white person in many cases.

Ford has always attacks the "lefties" of downtown Toronto and interestingly, most of them are white. Yes he can be very divisive but he wouldn't stand a chance of being elected if he focused on race, ethnicity or religion which he didn't. It was a smart move for an uneducated person.


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