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oliveurban Oct 14, 2006 10:19 PM

Phoenix CityScape Thread
Okay, I'll start it.

Post here new articles, renderings, updates, chat, etc., in regard to the CityScape project.

Evo5Boise Oct 14, 2006 10:49 PM

Sorry, I have nothing to post about it but wanted to say that the project looks great!!

Joe Gardner Oct 15, 2006 12:25 AM

Looks like a great space! Do you know the cost for the project?

GeorgeLV Oct 15, 2006 12:31 AM

The site plan doesn't make very much sense. The views on the residential towers are obstructed for no good reason.

oliveurban Oct 15, 2006 1:32 AM


Originally Posted by Joe Gardner
Looks like a great space! Do you know the cost for the project?

$900 million (2.5 mil square feet)

Azndragon837 Oct 15, 2006 10:27 AM

I'll give this a bump.


JimInCal Oct 15, 2006 6:51 PM

A New Thread is Born!

Thanks for birthing the Cityscape thread camelback road! This should be an exciting one. I hope the C-scape project team keeps tabs on us. In addition to the news, there have already been some great insights as to what many of us hope will happen with this pivitol project. The stakes are high and the opportunity is a tremendous one!

JimInCal Oct 15, 2006 6:59 PM

Obstructed Views?

Originally Posted by GeorgeLV
The site plan doesn't make very much sense. The views on the residential towers are obstructed for no good reason.

:hmmm: I think the site plan has the labels for the residential towers reversed with the office towers. The rendering shows the taller residential towers (notice the swimming pools at about 300') offset so they capitalize on the views as much as possible. The view is obviously a major selling point with hi-rise condos. I believe its an oops.

Upward Oct 16, 2006 12:14 AM

I like it, except for that pedestrian bridge. Big curvy ped bridges that turn crossing the street into an unnecessarily long walk are a feature of bad wannabe-urban design.

plinko Oct 16, 2006 2:16 AM

I'll save my commentary on this project till I actually see something out of the ground...but...

Anybody see what I see in the plan below? The block for PSP should be the downtown transit center (I realize there would be issues with the amount of paving required for busses, but what about putting them underground?). Hmmm...

HX_Guy Oct 17, 2006 5:48 PM

I wonder why CityScapes website,, is down?

JimInCal Oct 17, 2006 7:39 PM


Originally Posted by HX_Guy
I wonder why CityScapes website,, is down?

I just linked to it with no problem @ 12:30 PST. We're not getting jittery are we? :hyper:

sundevilgrad Oct 19, 2006 8:45 PM

Does anyone have news on the PSP compromise? Hopefully, they'll get this done without a major fight, but knowing Phoenix it'll have to go to the voters. All for a piece of crap park that nobody but the bums and drunks uses.

HX_Guy Oct 19, 2006 9:22 PM

The park seems to be holding up a lot. It will probably be 6 months before they even come to some sort of design, let alone actually break ground on anything.

HooverDam Oct 19, 2006 11:19 PM

Do the developers have to keep the park space on the block its currently on, or can it be on any of the blocks? It seems to me the park would be better suited one block to the east, with Cityscape buildings on both sides of it. Leaving the park open in that space would allow for a lot of foot traffic to travel between the arenas/whareouse district to the financial and business towers north of Washington.

Either way, the developers need to figure out a way to make foot traffic almost force its way through the park.

HX_Guy Oct 20, 2006 12:05 AM

I think they almost have to keep it on the block its on due to the parking garage underneath. If I remember correctly, someone mentioned that the parking garage could support up to a 20 story building on top of it...which wouldn't be enough if they are still sticking to their original proposal.

GeorgeLV Oct 20, 2006 1:15 AM


Originally Posted by HX_Guy
The park seems to be holding up a lot. It will probably be 6 months before they even come to some sort of design, let alone actually break ground on anything.

6 months is a lifetime in the construction business. Because of rising construction costs, if they haven't already locked in their prices with a contractor, the project may be as good as dead.

JimInCal Oct 20, 2006 3:41 AM

Sean has the Inside Scoop
If you all recall a few days back, prior to the birth of the Cityscape thread, Sean (aka compusean) mentioned that he had some exciting news regarding an infamous downtown eyesore. (Its on page 64/65'ish of the Phx Devel thread). He said he was sworn to secrecy, awaiting the official announcment, which I believe is now less than two weeks away. I thought it was pretty obvious that its about Patriots Square Park. He said we would like it so let's be patient and see what happens... :whisper:

blm3034L!fe Oct 20, 2006 3:43 AM

WOW! That's a very nice multi project indeed, if Phoenix gets this off the ground that would really help out the skyline, and add some impressive density. Good news 4 Phoenix, I'll pray to the skyscraper God's 4 U guy's that these Towers become a reality...:D

combusean Oct 25, 2006 6:06 AM

The bitter taste in my mouth about CityScape is going away. One of the SPP coorganizers formulated some questions about CityScape which are answered by John Chan, Downtown Development Office director



1. Will the entirety of block 77 (Patriots Square) be City-owned or will RED own the "fringes"?

The current plan anticipates that the City will retain ownership of block 77, we would convey development rights (through a lease) to the developer on portions of the block to build the required retail and residential. The park would continue to be owned by the city as directed by the City Council.

2. If any square footage is reclaimed from street right-of-ways (e.g. by narrowing Central Ave.) will the City own this property or will RED

There are no detailed plans at this time regarding narrowing of streets. These concepts require traffic studies etc. to evaluate the impacts to vehicular, transit and pedestrian flows.

3. What language/requirements will RED's DRA contain w/ respect to EO, or small, minority-/women-owned businesses? What percentage of RED's retail square footage will be devoted to EO enterprises?

Regarding EO requirements, the developer is required to abide by City ordinances as well as State and Federal laws. The percentage of retail space open to EO enterprises has not been established however, the City will incorporate a requirement setting minimum goals for the percentage of retail space available to local small businesses. For public improvements that will be reimbursed by the City, the developer is required to follow public procurement requirements and meet EO and MBE/WBE goals.

4. By when do you wish to wrap-up RED's development contract? When will it go to Council for approval? If it's still in process, would it be possible to include this type of an agreement for the retail for Block 77 and others?

The City Council as already authorized staff to negotiate and enter into the necessary agreements with the developer and we anticipate that the agreements will be finalized over the next couple of months. As outlined in the answer above, we will be incorporating EO goals in the agreements.

5. Is there someone else we should contact at the City re: this idea. I thought perhaps the City's Equal Opportunity Division. Or, the Hispanic & Black Chambers, and AZ Chain Reaction (Kimber Lanning)? I understand you may already be in touch with them on this.

Since our first discussions with RED, the City has reiterated the importance of developing a mix of local and national tenants. This was outlined in the Council adopted Downtown Strategic Vision and Blueprint. Mike Ebert understands and agrees that having a mix of local retailers contributes the uniqueness and attractiveness of the project and he has been meeting with groups such as Arizona Chain Reaction to achieve this goal.

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