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Dr Awesomesauce Mar 4, 2015 12:59 PM

^Mid 70s?

ScreamingViking Mar 6, 2015 6:55 AM

Pics from The Spec's Flashback on Jackson Square yesterday showing what the empty lot looked like before construction. Nice to see what used to be across from it on King Street in these too, and on the west side of MacNab. Would have been really cool to skate on that ice - anyone here actually do so?

http://thespec-stories.com/wp-conten...T-1024x486.jpg

http://thespec-stories.com/wp-conten...K-1024x640.jpg

(Note BobBra's comment beneath the photos... yes Bob, you're a champ. :tup: :haha:)

Dr Awesomesauce Mar 6, 2015 12:20 PM

Oh Bob...

I hope he enjoys his golden years...away from the public!

matt602 Mar 7, 2015 2:07 AM

He was right about the city hall thing though...

Dr Awesomesauce Mar 7, 2015 9:46 AM

^Which thing? 'City Hall in a Mall'?

King&James Mar 7, 2015 7:38 PM

Where is this building? the one on Paulina Street

Dr Awesomesauce Mar 8, 2015 12:33 AM

^Not sure I follow.

Jorge Luis Borges Mar 8, 2015 1:26 AM

Murray V Jones & Associates
 
Hi,

I've spent the day going through previous posts and I wanted to thank you for this invaluable resource. My grandfather was Murray V Jones, of Murray V Jones & Associates, the firm that planned the original Hamilton civic square. I work as a heritage restoration mason and will study a masters in Urban Planning next year.

Of particular interest to me are photos of the civic square area prior to the razing of the 43 acres of historic urban fabric.

Thanks

Dr Awesomesauce Mar 8, 2015 6:56 AM

^If only the original plan had been followed.

Sounds like an interesting job - best of luck!

Beedok Mar 8, 2015 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce (Post 6942374)
^If only the original plan had been followed.

Weren't the original plans around tearing down about as much, but building a bunch of tower in the park offices akin to the old Schoolboard Building?

Jorge Luis Borges Mar 8, 2015 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce (Post 6942374)
^If only the original plan had been followed.

Sounds like an interesting job - best of luck!

yes, the original plan's concern for public space would certainly be preferable to the nightmarish results we were actually given - but my ideal hypothetical situation involves those buildings having been preserved , or at least, not cleared on such a scale.

thomax Mar 8, 2015 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedok (Post 6942447)
Weren't the original plans around tearing down about as much, but building a bunch of tower in the park offices akin to the old Schoolboard Building?

There were three plans. The first was very "tower in the park" like you said, the second was more dense and closer to what we have today, and the third is what was built...


Plan 1:


Plan 2:


Plan 3 (What was built):
Quote:

http://i60.tinypic.com/2pyugib.jpg
Source: Bing 3D Maps App

Jorge Luis Borges Mar 8, 2015 10:32 PM

These are the photos I've found on this forum that show part of the 43 acres levelled in the 60s for urban renewal. Can anyone help add to this?
http://www.forevermayor.com/HAMTOWN.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...r/HAMOLDHS.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...Hamilton15.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4...69rchapman.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...ps5ovvpqqz.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...U203338INP.jpg
where are we situated in this last one?


http://i45.tinypic.com/2w3w204.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psp7ox5jkg.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psyhnttsbi.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psfqxmkmiq.jpg

Dr Awesomesauce Mar 9, 2015 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge Luis Borges (Post 6942900)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2...U203338INP.jpg
where are we situated in this last one?

The Market was located between Merrick (now York) and Market St/ York St west of James and east of MacNab. Confused yet? ;)

thomax Mar 9, 2015 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorge luis borges (Post 6942900)
Can anyone help add to this?

Vintage Hamilton - Pre Jackson Square

Vintage Hamilton - Downtown Core

Jorge Luis Borges Mar 9, 2015 12:34 AM

Thanks!

Jorge Luis Borges Mar 9, 2015 3:32 AM

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...psaxdjwjwd.jpg

Dr Awesomesauce Mar 10, 2015 12:12 AM

^Cool image. Depressing but cool. I hesitate to delve too deeply into the old 'what if...?' scenario again. So much was lost.

I will say though that I have played with my own designs of that 'super block.' Essentially just demo'ing Jackson Sq; reviving market square; connecting some of the old streets again - Market, MacNab, etc. - creating some interesting spaces, etc. It's the dream that will never die...

Jorge Luis Borges Mar 10, 2015 4:37 PM

^^is demo'ing Jackson Sq making the same mistake as demoing what came before it?

I'm curious how we will think about preservation in another 25 or 50 years. How we will relate to the decisions we make now. I can't imagine anyone discovering images of a vanished Jackson Square Mall and feeling the sense of loss so often expressed in this forum. That being said, I think it's important to use what we have, and to leave nods to what came before - ie. leave some artifacts if you are going to demolish Jackson Square, such as the steps.

I think we have a special relationship to architecture and urbanism which comes out of an informal, organic process - adapting over time, ideally, to it's surroundings - producing beautiful situations like the old market square, the way old city hall sat on the street - the way that York fell off the city grid as it was originally a native Canadian trail, producing that wedge shaped block.
The appeal those “ filthy back lanes, the grubby roof tops and the decrepit faces,” have for us today are as missing charm, irregularity, changes of pace and space in the downtown. a human touch. We respond to these not out of nostalgia, but because what we were given in it's place, did not offer us successful qualities.

A better question:

If we could restore the original buildings, the streetwalls, the alleys, old city hall
, market square, the old market, everything to it's pre-1960s condition - should we?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce (Post 6944275)
^Cool image. Depressing but cool. I hesitate to delve too deeply into the old 'what if...?' scenario again. So much was lost.

I will say though that I have played with my own designs of that 'super block.' Essentially just demo'ing Jackson Sq; reviving market square; connecting some of the old streets again - Market, MacNab, etc. - creating some interesting spaces, etc. It's the dream that will never die...


Dr Awesomesauce Mar 11, 2015 1:11 AM

^It's a valid question.

There are certain things that have little no no redeeming qualities, like strip malls, or perhaps suburban-style malls surrounded by parking. Jackson Sq is somewhere in between those examples and a thoughtfully planned development, I suppose.

I don't want to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater but I do want better urban spaces, one way or another.


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