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Calfan12 Mar 2, 2022 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 9552638)
Very positive for Red Deer; I am curious to see who decides to enter that market.

WestJet (possibly), although they'll likely let WS Link operate Red Deer YQF -Calgary YYC route on the Saab 340 planes✈️.

Swoop or Lynx is another possibility.

Will see.

hollywoodcory Mar 2, 2022 4:54 PM

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...nwing-airlines

Interesting development.

thewave46 Mar 2, 2022 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9553960)

I would have thought Air Transat would be the natural choice for Westjet, but Sunwing makes sense too.

This stinks for sun destination competition, especially from western Canada.

SteelTown Mar 2, 2022 5:31 PM

Wonder if WestJet will just rename Sunwing to Swoop.

MountainView Mar 2, 2022 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown (Post 9554027)
Wonder if WestJet will just rename Sunwing to Swoop.

From the article... looks like the Sunwing name will stay.

Quote:

Following the close of the transaction, a new tour operating business unit will be created under the WestJet Group, to include both Sunwing Vacations and WestJet Vacations Inc., and will be led by Sunwing CEO Stephen Hunter. Sunwing’s current shareholders will become equity holders in the WestJet Group.

Canadian travellers will have access to more competitive airfares and affordable vacation packages through the combined strength of the companies. The tour operator business will be headquartered in Toronto, with a Quebec head office in Laval and the business will continue to market the Sunwing brand alongside WestJet Vacations. The WestJet Group will maintain its head office in Calgary.

The WestJet Group of companies will expand to include Sunwing Airlines.

hehehe Mar 2, 2022 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainView (Post 9554060)
From the article... looks like the Sunwing name will stay.

The only difference between Sunwing now and then is that Westjet Vacations and Sunwing vacations combine with a Toronto HQ (for the vacations office). I wonder what they mean when saying that seasonal aircraft will now fly year round.

Will WG be like WO where no connections are offered and there's no connections between them and WS, or will it be more integrated?

Calfan12 Mar 2, 2022 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9527675)
Yep & currently (if) Canada were to see Airlines mergers at some point.

Air Canada merger with Air Transat is the most likely 1st✅.
WestJet merges probably with Sunwing,(as they already work closely together selling vacation packages for flights).
Porter with 1 of Flair or Lynx?

My post from February 7th, I took a guess that WestJet would merge with Sunwing Airlines (WG).

Today on March 2nd 2022 we get news of WestJet (WS) buying Sunwing.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/west...rket-1.5802502

https://globalnews.ca/news/8654321/w...quisition/amp/

MountainView Mar 2, 2022 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9554065)
The only difference between Sunwing now and then is that Westjet Vacations and Sunwing vacations combine with a Toronto HQ (for the vacations office). I wonder what they mean when saying that seasonal aircraft will now fly year round.

Will WG be like WO where no connections are offered and there's no connections between them and WS, or will it be more integrated?

I think what the news release is saying is that WestJet will now use WestJet aircraft to supplement Sunwing's fleet during the winter peak season as oppose to Sunwing leasing aircraft from Europe for the busy winter seasonal flying.

WestJet also now gets access to a strong vacation sales entity and Sunwing definitely has a better market share than WestJet in many points in the east (YUL, YQB, YOW come to mind... potentially the Maritimes too).

LO 044 Mar 2, 2022 7:26 PM

Does Sunwing actually own any aircraft? If not then in essence WestJet is buying up a bunch of Czech pilot contracts for the winter seasons. WestJet should change it's name from "The Spirit of Canada" to "Competition is so overrated".

thewave46 Mar 2, 2022 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9554230)
Does Sunwing actually own any aircraft? If not then in essence WestJet is buying up a bunch of Czech pilot contracts for the winter seasons. WestJet should change it's name from "The Spirit of Canada" to "Competition is so overrated".

They are also buying a brand name and logistics operation with resort operators.

So, expect to see a lot less mainline Westjet flying and Westjet Vacations becoming Sunwing over the long-term, with the exception for European flying.

I view this with about the same enthusiasm I viewed the Air Canada/Air Transat merger (i.e. none)

casper Mar 2, 2022 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown (Post 9554027)
Wonder if WestJet will just rename Sunwing to Swoop.

That would be a very bad mistake.

Swoop represents an airline that will operate your flight. If there is any problem your on your own as they don't make any commitment to get you to where you need to be. They are one of these ultra low cost operations that need to avoid like the plague or COVID.

Sunwing has a reputation for being a responsible company committed to living up to the commitment they make. A company you are willing to trust with organizing and delivering the vacation your family has been waiting months for and your willing to travel out of country with your kids knowing they have your pack.

Sinwing is all about all-inclusive. Swoop is about nothing-inclusive.

Sunwing and Swoop are complete opposites in every respect.

Good move by WestJet.

casper Mar 2, 2022 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9554230)
Does Sunwing actually own any aircraft? If not then in essence WestJet is buying up a bunch of Czech pilot contracts for the winter seasons. WestJet should change it's name from "The Spirit of Canada" to "Competition is so overrated".

I thought they had a small permanent fleet they used year round and then during the winter they would bring in aircraft from Europe. They can now use WestJet aircraft and pilots during the winter vacation season.

LO 044 Mar 2, 2022 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9554313)
Sunwing has a reputation for being a responsible company committed to living up to the commitment they make. A company you are willing to trust with organizing and delivering the vacation your family has been waiting months for and your willing to travel out of country with your kids knowing they have your pack.

You mean like advertising and selling flights in those packages as non-stops and then adding stops days before your departure? Or adding a technical stop on the way back knowing their 737's can't make it back without one? Hardly responsible, trustworthy or taking care of my kids as my flight returns at 2am in the morning as opposed to 10pm.

whatnext Mar 2, 2022 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9554313)
That would be a very bad mistake.

Swoop represents an airline that will operate your flight. If there is any problem your on your own as they don't make any commitment to get you to where you need to be. They are one of these ultra low cost operations that need to avoid like the plague or COVID.

Sunwing has a reputation for being a responsible company committed to living up to the commitment they make. A company you are willing to trust with organizing and delivering the vacation your family has been waiting months for and your willing to travel out of country with your kids knowing they have your pack.

Sinwing is all about all-inclusive. Swoop is about nothing-inclusive.

Sunwing and Swoop are complete opposites in every respect.

Good move by WestJet.

I disagree. Westjet has drifted so far from what originally made them successful: a focused airline with a single aircraft type and a motivated workforce. Now they're just all over the show, Canadian Airlines V.2

thewave46 Mar 2, 2022 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9554403)
I disagree. Westjet has drifted so far from what originally made them successful: a focused airline with a single aircraft type and a motivated workforce. Now they're just all over the show, Canadian Airlines V.2

It was inevitable.

A Southwest-style airline (single aircraft type, single brand, decent service) would always have a finite upper limit in Canada.

So, they had to branch out. Westjet Encore with Q400s to serve regional routes where a 737 didn’t make sense. 787s to make real transatlantic service possible. Swoop to zealously guard the encroaching ULCC competition. Sunwing to do the cheap package sun vacations.

Westjet is aiming square at Air Canada. However, they seem to be keeping separate brands for their leisure/ULCC operations to prevent them from damaging the parent brand.

hehehe Mar 2, 2022 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainView (Post 9554219)
I think what the news release is saying is that WestJet will now use WestJet aircraft to supplement Sunwing's fleet during the winter peak season as oppose to Sunwing leasing aircraft from Europe for the busy winter seasonal flying.

WestJet also now gets access to a strong vacation sales entity and Sunwing definitely has a better market share than WestJet in many points in the east (YUL, YQB, YOW come to mind... potentially the Maritimes too).

Interesting. I wonder if some WS winter destinations south transfer to Sunwing then. WG still has 15-16 planes it owns too. Maybe they keep the Europe leased aircraft in the winter?

thenoflyzone Mar 2, 2022 10:56 PM

This merger will eliminate a lot of competition on Caribbean and southern US runs out of YYZ and Western Canadian airports. YUL isn’t really affected much, as WS has very little presence here.

Wonder what kind of restrictions - if any- the Canadian competition bureau will come up with for this merger….

casper Mar 3, 2022 5:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9554353)
You mean like advertising and selling flights in those packages as non-stops and then adding stops days before your departure? Or adding a technical stop on the way back knowing their 737's can't make it back without one? Hardly responsible, trustworthy or taking care of my kids as my flight returns at 2am in the morning as opposed to 10pm.

Ok, they are not saints but still a step up from Swoop. Swoop is the airline where they can cancel a flight and the airport staff say sorry maybe you can go buy a ticket from Westjet if you really want to fly home after words.

casper Mar 3, 2022 5:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9554403)
I disagree. Westjet has drifted so far from what originally made them successful: a focused airline with a single aircraft type and a motivated workforce. Now they're just all over the show, Canadian Airlines V.2

If they became Canadian 2.0they would win me over. The CP staff were fantastic. The other parts of Canadian were not quite as good but still better than now. There staff has a real focus on doing the right thing.

whatnext Mar 3, 2022 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9524783)
Now that you mention it, rumours about foreign control have been dogging them from the start. I recall when they were still called NewLeaf, they brought on board a group of First Nations as investors and there were wild rumours around Winnipeg about foreign money being funneled in through FN casinos.

It kind of reminds me of the crazy startup era for Flair/NewLeaf. The local law firm that had NewLeaf as a client somehow convinced the airline to handle all their startup regulatory work despite the fact that they had no airline clients and no real experience in the area, leading to lengthy delays to the planned start of their operation as the lawyers figured out what to do. And yet somehow they are still around.

Some more info on Flair's foreign ownership issues. It's behind the Globe's paywall but this should give the gist of it:

Federal regulator launches formal probe into Flair Airlines’ compliance with Canadian ownership laws
ERIC ATKINS TRANSPORTATION REPORTER
PUBLISHED MARCH 1, 2022

Canada’s transportation regulator has launched a formal investigation into Flair Airlines’ compliance with laws that limit the control a foreign investor can have in a domestic carrier.

The Canadian Transportation Agency took the step after a review of Edmonton-based Flair’s ownership, which includes Miami-based 777 Partners. The U.S. investment firm owns 25 per cent of Flair, occupies three of its five board seats, and leases several planes to the airline.

The CTA said its probe came about as part of its monitoring of the industry. The federal regulator, which has the power to issue fines and suspend an airline’s operating licence, recently formed a panel to review the issue after a preliminary investigation.

“The CTA, as part of its ongoing regulatory activities, monitors airlines’ compliance with the Canadian ownership and control requirement,” the agency said in an e-mail. “Staff initiated a review of Flair’s ownership interest to assess its compliance with this requirement.”

Foreign investment in a Canadian airline cannot exceed 49 per cent, or 25 per cent by an individual. Additionally, foreigners cannot control the airline, something the CTA calls “control in fact.”...

....An allegation that the airline is controlled by Americans was also made last fall in a wrongful dismissal lawsuit filed by the airline’s former finance director, Jocelyn Harris. That claim has not been tested in court.

Flair is embroiled in a legal battle with its largest Canadian investor, Prescott Strategic Investments, partly owned by Flair’s former CEO, Jim Scott. Flair sought and was granted a publication ban and sealing order on that lawsuit. Steve Warnett, a lawyer for Prescott, declined to comment, citing the court order....


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...es-compliance/


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