Phoenix | Central Station Towers 1 & 2 | 372 FT | 32 Floors & 230 FT | 22 Floors
 

Central Station renderings: Construction currently in progress.

Link to Downtown ASU Cam (will update this link if a full construction cam is provided): https://view.asu.edu/downtown


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I agree. This is a game changer, as USAplace and Marina Heights are to Tempe.

They mention over 600 residents, but in reality, they are proposing over 500 units, so there would likely be more like 800 new residents or more downtown. This increases demand for everything.

Central Station could really be a tipping point and catalyst for a lot of other additions like a grocery store, other retail, and then more residential living.

Does this really need its own thread yet?

Don't get me wrong, I have full (or fool) trust in Smithfield (the developer and contractor). They have been a top notch company since they arrived in the valley. They recently completed Domus in Arcadia, and are currently building another midrise west of the 51 north of Camelback. They have also done projects of similar scale to this one back in Chicago, where they are from. So I don't think there is any trepidation about this being a legit proposal. (here is their website for whomever wants to see what they have done: http://www.smith-field.com/)

However we know how big projects like these can go. Can we wait until it at least gets through the city before we start subdividing it into its own group?

There's been a couple newspieces on it lately, it seems to be going through cause of the GPLET and as you said the reputable developer, and we've created threads for much lesser projects. Moreover, it's good to start these early so for the retrospect we can see the articles that were posted about its early days up until it actually gets built, so I don't see any reason to lock this thread.

I'll bet by the time it finally gets built. Hopefuly around June 2021 will get a 15 story stump!

Please pardon me for bumping the thread without any updated news. Does anyone know if Central Station is in the planning stages or permitting process? There hasn't been any news, that I know of, in several months.
Please forgive me for the thread bump - I basically just wanted to know if the project is still alive? Thank you!

The project is still alive.

I wish there were additional renderings and more details on the site plan. The plans have changed significantly in terms of the commercial space, and I'm very interested in how the southern 3/4 of the block will look, as the tower only occupies the northern 1/4. According to the following link:

1) commercial space has been increased from 4,500 sq ft to 30,000 sq ft
2) commercial space will be located on the ground level of the parking structure
3) SmithGroup has the option of splitting the tower in two and phasing construction

https://www.phoenix.gov/publictransi...T%20110614.pdf

Timeline:
18 months to commence construction (from November 2014, if I am reading correctly)
30 months to complete construction

Th increase in commercial space is significant and great news!!!!

Agreed. Originally, there was only 4500 for transit offices and 4500 for "incubator offices." If the 30,000 is a correct figure, it would be great to know if there is now a retail component and whether the offices are in a separate building from the garage? From the rendering, it looks like there is a taller, yellow and white building fronting 1st Ave and a shorter one fronting Van Buren. Could one be an office building and one the garage? It's just really confusing.

But, I hope the 30,000 isn't a mistake and that it does include retail. I know I'm high on retail but this is our transit center; if that can't support some fast food dining options, we're screwed. Plus, you have the hotel across Central, Civic Space right there, and 500 new apartments on top! Come on.

I agree. Talk about a built in client base!!!!

where is the most recent rendering, Jjs5056?

Here is an article from AZCentral that also mentions 30,000 sq ft of commercial...

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...lest/17177161/

This was one of the earlier articles, when the commercial was still listed at 4500/4500: http://www.downtownphoenixjournal.co...-station-site/

It contains the only renderings and site plan I have seen thus far. The site plan makes it seem as though 3/4 of the block will be a garage, which would be really lame. But, 30k sq feet of commercial can't possibly be on the ground level only, so I am hoping it's wrapped on at least some of its sides by office space.

Does anyone know if Central Station is active and moving along with all the required permits etc.? Is construction still scheduled to start this upcoming summer? There has been very limited information about the project so I was hoping someone with hopefully more information could please clarify and share it with us? Thank you very much!

The listed start time is AUGUST of 2015. FINGERS CROSSED!!!!!! :)

Well I hope so. Between Portland on the Park, Union, That other building by hance park (cant remember) and central station that's hundreds of new permanent downtown residents.

Here's hoping the design is radically modified prior to August.

Well, it probably wont be...

Hey but at least its an Oval, we don't have any Oval buildings.

It's going to need a ton of variances as almost everything about it is against Urban Form.

I actually don't mind the design of the tower... if it were being built next to the YMCA, it'd be fantastic. But, in its current state - only frontage is on to a private driveway with blank walls facing Central and 1st Ave, its orientation will cast terrible shadows over the park and destroy the city views - it's really frustrating.

And, there's the fact that the tower takes up less than 1/4 of the entire lot, with the rest of the site being dedicated to a massive garage with a blank wall/ramp facing Van Buren in an area that should be a connection between EVB and WVB. On 75% of one of the best sites in downtown, we are getting a huge garage, with 1 office on the ground level facing 1st Ave and 1 incubator space facing Central.

This would've been an awesome location for the DeSoto market...opening onto 3 of the busiest downtown blocks, and connected to the park... sigh.

Yeah, it's orientation is odd. I also like the views of the city you get from the park. Having something similar to DeSoto in that space with rooftop space. Oh well. At least Central Station will have ground level retail and maybe a grocery store.

There is no ground level retail, though, that's the issue. It is a massive parking garage:

Van Buren - is a complete blank wall with the garage entrance in the center.
Central Ave - has one commercial space that is going to be used as an incubator (9-5 business)
1st Ave - has one commercial space that is going to be used for the transit offices (9-5 business)

I suppose those 2 spaces could be considered ground level retail, but they'll make for a much different type of street activation as opposed to, say, a restaurant with late night and weekend hours.

When you consider that its 3 sides front 3 of the busiest streets in downtown, that it connects to 2 light rail stops and the entire hub of the bus system, a garage with 2 offices on the ground level is a total waste of prime real estate.

You're describing many downtowns, including LA and Chicago - where there is no lack of street life but where buildings like Sears/Willis and the Hancock Tower are, garage and retail.

Good question; seems a bit premature to me. Not objecting really and I would hope that coverage continues on the main thread for the many that go there but not to sub-threads.

...for the better of course. It feels like there's a good distance still to go on this project. Value engineering is not unusual as things progress as well so we'll see.

I do agree but not sure there's an easy fix here?

There shouldn't need to be an "easy fix." There should have been a project proposed for the best parcel in downtown Phoenix that was appropriate for its surroundings and provided the best short and long-term benefits to the City who gave up its central bus terminal for this. Phoenix is NOT LA or Chicago or any other city. Those cities have multiple pockets of density, of continuous retail, of true urban districts. Phoenix is manufacturing a downtown out of the ruins of its past and has still not reached the point where it has become a city that is more than just the sum of disconnected mega projects.

The Central Station lot had the potential to a true "hub" and center of activity. It flanks 2 light rail stations, is the City's major bus terminal, will one day be a connection to even more light rail lines and a possible streetcar, has frontage onto the only successful urban park in Phoenix, is at the intersection of ASU and the CBD, and is between the 2 busiest streets in downtown - 1st Ave and Central. It had the opportunity to activate the edge of Civic Space with its Polk side, to take advantage of the successful Westin's main dropoff across its Central side, to be one of the first major projects that Van Buren has been zoned for, and to serve the YMCA/ASU students along 1st Ave.

It does none of that. Civic Space will now be covered in complete shade during certain times of the year and its southern view, which used to be a great mix of midrises and highrises, will now be a giant wall of glass housing luxury apartments that are separated from the park by a private driveway along the Park's southern border. And, the rest of the site gets an above-ground parking garage.

If the market could only support 1 residential apartment tower and 2 office spaces for this site, then the entire RFP should have been delayed until conditions improved OR the winning bid should have had a phased plan that left portions of the property available for future development.

The garage and retail space could and should have been built into the podium of the residential tower, which could and should have been built at the corner of Central and Van Buren. An office tower with underground or podium parking should have been planned for at the corner of Polk and 1st Ave' the City needs Class A office space, and what could be a better sell to tenants than being have your office on the site of the City's multi-modal hub? Polk could then be lined with restaurant spaces that opened up the park, Central and Van Buren could have been the perfect spots for the first big box stores to come downtown, and the transit office and incubator space could have fronted 1st Ave.

^ What amazes me is how easily you can articulate all that. I'm more just a cheerleader but I keep learnin'.

I do happen to actually be familiar with that specific area and everything you say is well taken. The shade might be nice in summer but at that time of year the sun is so high that it won't be shady for the most part. It's in winter months when the sun would be appreciated that it will be blocked.

Your emphasis on the site's potential as a transit and strategic hub is what I like. I could visualize more of a mixed use 12 story project over a podium as being much better as I'm reminded of some projects in LoDo. There's also THIS which received a height waiver because it's much smaller than could be footprint actually leaves much better mountain views for other residential units nearby.

If it's any consolation the Diamondbacks are beating up on the Giants tonight at AT&T Park. :)

While I'm sure it is too late, have you ever emailed your sentiments to anyone with the city in charge of this project? Not saying it would do much, but I certainly hope they see/hear your concerns because it is spot on.

Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to send such feedback, but I'll take a look on the phoenix.gov site.

The worst part is that the project already received a GPLET - when will the City stop bending over backwards for developers? If they're giving away a tax break, the City should demand higher quality projects that have a significant impact/contribution to the community. At the very least, they could ensure developers follow the Urban Form put in place for the sole reason of preventing monstrosities like this from being built.

SmithGroup will get away with their mediocre contribution to downtown because 400+ residential units and a shiny rendering in place of what is now a bus dumping zone is hard to resist. It's like nobody see that over 3/4 of the lot is an above-grade garage, which we wouldn't/shouldn't accept from any new office project, for example.

I really think this lot is the most important parcel in downtown. With the future plans for light rail lines to converge here, the expansion of ASU, growth in Roosevelt Row, etc., it will become the central hub. And, it's being wasted on a parking garage.

Central station to start construction
 

According to "THE CONSTRUCTION REPORTER" & ERIC JOHNSON(economic development manager for PHX.)

This 34 STORY highrise is to START CONSTRUCTION LATE THIS SUMMER and to be complete by EARLY 2017:cheers:

Hopefully, taller towers will be built to the west and Northwest of that area to SHADE the bus transit center in the late afternoons.

Wonderful news!!! This should help DeSoto and maybe fill in some other vacant retail. Big snowball for the area! So much residential breaking ground!

central station
 

This tower will never get built you clearly must not follow news on here! we will be lucky to get a 5 story apt building in 10 years

You are incorrect.

? What? Since 2007 we have gained
One Central Park east
Portland on the Park
the new 10 story medical building
Taylor Place
The Downtown Sheraton
The Luhrs Marriot
Alliance Bank Tower
Palomar Hotel/condo Tower

I don't remember when 44 Monroe was built but it was also like 06/07

Those are all over 10 stories (high rise in Phoenix terms)

I think 44 Monroe was in 2008. I have a strong feeling that Central Station will happen and will happen on time. Between the relatively frequent media updates on the project and some information I have heard from insiders with the project, it sounds like there is nothing right now that is going to stop this project. The Federal Transit Administration gave the go ahead to the city for the project, the developer recently sold another property here in the Valley and has enough capital to build Central Station, and the City absolutely seems supportive.

I look forward to seeing some highrise development downtown. People may not realize this, but this will be the tallest building that has been constructed in Arizona since 1989 and the tallest to be constructed downtown since 1976.

That's not fair... Do i have to ask?

Ok, I'll guess... Is the 1989 one in Tucson?

I believe its the US West building on Central and Thomas or whatever the hell they're calling the telecom company that leases space there nowadays.

Centurylink? Tucson's tallest was completed in 1986

While it could be much improved, like adding 110 feet to it to finally get a building to hit 500 feet, it will be nice to have a new highrise downtown. Let's hope more start coming through the pipeline.

Yeah, the 1989 highrise is the CenturyLink building near Central and Thomas. This will be taller than One South Church (tallest building in Tucson) by 60 feet.

general philosophical question here borne of frustration and scratch-the-head perplexity...why can't they just tack on 10 more feet and get a third building in the friggin' state to that "magical" 400 foot mark???? :whistle:

^ This looks to me like it's a low-risk, value-engineered building that's being constructed to be sold later on like practically every other building in the region.

The garage is above ground, which is cheap to build, the developer is pushing back on Urban Form requirements that would drive up cost, the curtain wall is cheap glass, and there's practically no mechanical screening for the penthouse except its stupid "hat."

A taller building would probably significantly change up their pro forma, eg, they might have to put parking partially underground instead, which would drive up cost. Ignoring a safe expected rate of return for a taller building or flashier project is what developers do when they have faith in the market and want something they hold on to for a long time to recoup the losses building it.

i don't doubt that is going to be value-engineered. and that's the nature of the beast in this part of the country...is what it is. the monroe building looks cheap and this will too i'm sure. i just don't understand...where is the sense of reaching for *something* here in arizona? i mean, why the hell NOT add an extra 10 feet or even 27 feet and be the 2nd tallest? surely, the FAA is not an issue here...i just don't get it. mediocrity begets mediocrity. i know we're not supposed to expect quality AND quantity...God forbid...

I've often wondered, if someone in Tucson made a semi-realistic proposal for a new tallest in the state if that wouldn't get PHX developers off their butts to build over 500. I'm sure they'd hate the tallest being in Tucson. Or maybe they don't care about that kind of thing like we do at all...

most developers are either A. Dumb, B. Lazy or C. a combination of A and B.

I don't think Phoenix developers are too worried about Tucson building a new tallest. If the economy of Phoenix can't support a building over 500 feet, Tucson's economy certainly cannot support a building that tall. What's interesting is that Tucson's tallest was actually supposed to be joined by a twin tower several years after the current tower was constructed. The developer ran out of money while during construction, leaving only the foundation of the building. There was mural developed on the foundation that is still there. Off-topic tidbit, but interesting nevertheless.

In any case, Tucson hasn't seen construction of a new highrise office building since at least the early 1990s.

a new tallest doesn't have to have purely economical function. creatively, a new tallest, whether in tucson or phoenix (yeah, nothing of the sort will ever happen in tucson -- let's be realistic here), could incorporate purely aesthetic elements such as a spire or observation tower or even solar panels (let's think outside the box!). 20 stories of mixed-use (300') and 200' feet of something else...why not? i know we're in the land of make believe now but it doesn't have to be that way. for the record, i think it would be awesome if tucson built an observation tower similar to space needle. amazing 360 mountain views. why not a hotel/observation tower near the convention center? so little imagination or bravado in this state...(sigh)

Height for the sake of height is meaningless, and provides no value to a city. What is the benefit of additional residents when the surrounding built environment creates a hostile pedestrian environment of garage ramps, loading docks, and bus pullouts?

I'd rather it be chopped in half in exchange for a design that actually encourages its residents to engage with the environment around them.

^ i don't see where you're connecting what i said with your statements about disconnecting people from buildings, etc. "height for height's sake" is pointless? maybe you should tell that to the good people of Paris, Toronto, Seattle, Tokyo and our nation's capital. Perhaps nice views and "reach for the stars" bravado aren't enough? Perhaps the Washington Monument should have stopped at the current one-half the height of the Monument itself and be happy with 277.5 feet? in what i'm proposing, height *IS* the point. and for some purposes (this) it's totally valid. man, reactionary has its limits, folks...

You make statements like they are facts. That's not a fact. For years, people said that about Kuala Lumpur, Dubai and downtown NYC with the original World Trade Center. Those cities had extremely tall, mostly empty buildings surrounded by nothing. Which, over time, have filled up and surrounding them are hundreds of thousands of people, loads of towers and public transportation. If a developer built a 500-foot building right in downtown Phoenix, it would fill up and other buildings would go up around it. That's how it works.

I agree with this philosophy quite a bit. I think Phoenix, more so than Tempe, was hurt big time by the recession as it pertains to momentum downtown.

While we may not love every development, one thing is true with every new development -- there is now less developable land remaining. This over time drives up values. The more you must pay for the land, the more density you need to pack it with to earn a return and make development economical.

So I'm willing to live with less than ideal developments knowing that it will contribute to better developments in the future. I think Tempe is proving this out as we speak with the Mill+Rio/Monti's/100Mill towers and the proposed 7th st mixed use project.

In addition, more humans need more retail, restaurants, hotels, etc. which requires more humans. More humans then need more housing. It's a snowball effect that was unfortunately greatly damaged during the last recession, but you can feel it picking up more and more momentum now.

Somethingfast - my comment wasn't directed at you; essentially, my feeling is just that additional height on this thing wouldn't make it any less of a wasted opportunity.

Kevin - I think it's obvious by now to most people that my rants aren't facts. :) The places you list have completely different built environments, different ways of life, and many other factors (stronger economies, natural city boundaries forcing vertical construction, etc.). I never said a 500-foot tower wouldn't fill up; I said that this particular tower built at 500+ feet wouldn't any more value to the city than it does in its current form. This tower has been built to isolate itself as much as possible from any interaction with the surrounding city, while also creating an entire block's worth of dead space. Downtown only benefits if those residents get out of their tower, walk the streets of downtown, purchase goods downtown, etc. This design is just pure shit in that regard. And, I disagree that one 500 foot tower would encourage additional developments of that size. If that were the case, why hasn't Chase inspired such projects in 30+ years? It's been a decade since OCPE and CityScape were announced... and not a single high-rise has been proposed outside of this RFP.

PHYFlyer11 - Tempe, a suburban college town, that has experienced rapid urban growth within the last decade or so, has made FAR fewer mistakes to the detriment of its downtown. Yes, there are a few projects that could've been better, but for the most part, each project within that time period has added new demographics to the city's population, jobs to its economy, and has filled in a hole somewhere within the urban fabric of the city. Phoenix has had decades to learn from their mistakes.. they even implemented Urban Form which specifically prohibits projects like this from being built. This isn't a small mistake; it's taking a valuable piece of land - land you admit is running out - and using the majority of it for parking.