A new cargo operator called CMA CGM started service on Saturday with it's first route Chicago ORD to Liege Belgium using a A330 F. Alot of A350's have been picking up routes(mainly cargo) to ORD in the last few months. SAS and Finnair have been operating A350-900's. Also Cathay Pacific have used a A350-1000 on cargo runs to ORD. We should see a large increase in domestic flights to ORD this summer hopefully. As for international, maybe this fall. We will have to wait and see.

Originally, both Satellite Terminals were supposed to be open sometime in 2024. I know they aren't going to meet that schedule, but I haven't heard anything to suggest it would be delayed by a full decade. Did I miss something?

No, she was not in the secure areas. She repeatedly, repeatedly not to go to airports anymore! She didn't listen to the judge or me. She didn't take her medication. She sneaks out of facility. She escape from Safe Haven yesterday. So now, she was charged with felony escape and criminal trespass.

She is currently being held without bond. She return to Cook County jail. She should be punished by the law. She breaks the law. The judge will be pissed at her again. She violating her probation.

From FH Paschen- https://twitter.com/fhpaschen/status...33355930124292
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eww3vKsX...jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eww3vLqW...jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eww3vL5W...jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eww3vMbX...jpg&name=small

Looks like they'll be able to use the new "gates" before the terminal expansion is complete (maybe even can now?), given the long jet bridges to the existing terminal.

Hi all,

More update! Serial stowaway went to the court today. Judge David Navarro ordered her to held without bail. She didn't have a permission to go out for walk. Judge told her that she cannot go any place. She rode on CTA Blue Line to O'Hare airport. That's exactly how she got on rail. Her next court date is on April 7 to face judge Peggy Chiampas on her new charge. She was charged with felony escape.

https://timesnewsexpress.com/news/ne...hKx5FXULMeZRI8

That looks like foundation work on Terminal 5. Do you think that it will be completed by the end of this year because the completion date for Terminal 5 expansion was set for 2021? Also, anybody know what the status of the ATS is? How can it be delayed for 2+ years?

From what I remembered. The timeline was this:

Terminal 5 Expansion:
Break ground 2019
Completed in 2021

Sattelite Concourses for Global Terminal:
Break ground 2022
Completed in 2024

Demolish Existing Terminal 2

Global Terminal
Break ground 2024
Completed in 2028

Then again, these dates could easily be delayed with the pandemic.

An interesting read on some Midway history.


https://southwest50.com/timeline/ope...econd-airport/

^ fascinating history.

I had no appreciation for the degree to which southwest's takeover of MDW was so deliberate and highly-orchestrated.

That is a good read. I do wish that ATA and their sleek fleet of 757s could have won out the day at Midway however. Love that plane.

Yes, you realize that. ATA is long gone. No longer flying. They cease operation in April 2008.

Yeah, the 757 is the sleekest mainline twin engine ever, IMO.

Such graceful lines.

The 737 is a workhorse beast of an airplane, but she's not much of a looker.

Just found another picture of the O'Hare Global terminal that better shows the satellite concourses as well!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2xxMeSU...jpg&name=large

Looks like this will add some A380 gates in addition to the two A380 gates at Terminal 5! And this image shows an A380 parked towards bottom of the middle concourse. I know that some airlines are retiring their A380s, but I still hope that at least Emirates and British Airways bring their A380s back to O'Hare soon! Both have committed to keep their A380s and both have flown the A380 to O'Hare before (Emirates for a one-off and British Airways for 2 years until the pandemic).

Given that production that orders have stopped on the A380 I doubt that there will be many new gates made especially for the A380.

I think we have all seen that render before. With SOM winning the design of the satellite terminals I would expect at least a marginal if not radical redesign of the satellite terminals we see in that picture. Though that one picture doesn't tell us much about the satellite terminals other than a very distant view of the facade. I'm excited to see the detailed SOM renders whenever they do come out, hopefully soon.

Good points. But yeah, what do SOM's satellite concourses look like? I'm guessing this, but the top obviously not connected to the global terminal:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9f731d7f_c.jpg

Also, I'm surprised at the lack of news this expansion has been getting. Like ever since the groundbreaking of the T5 expansion and the selection of the Global terminal winner, there has been no news on when things will be complete or the progress. Same for the ATS project.

It's not surprising ATS news releases have been nonexistent. It's going on a year delayed without a clear completion date as inconvenient bus service between terminals is the new norm. Everything will be quiet until they can host a fancy grand opening party to make everyone forget about this horribly managed project.

Unrelated, but might O'Hare consider renumbering the terminals in the future? It's one confusing Frankenstein of a layout. T1 will have 2 satellites concourses, T2 will be the big global terminal, T3 has 3 wildly different-looking concourses that spur out from the main portion, and T5 is away from the three main terminals. The layout is confusing and isn't conducive for making intuitive sense unless you've been to O'Hare before. I hope the wayfinding can be improved for passengers.

Air Canada has started flying 787's and 777's into ORD daily for parma cargo shipments. This is supposed to go on for several months.

That T5 construction jet bridge has to be the longest I have ever seen. Must be 1/4th of a mile long!!!

Interesting side note regarding 787s.... I wonder if airlines are getting ready to ramp up 787s out of O'Hare.

I say this as I just booked a plane ticket 1-way from ORD to London for late August. The current flight route is an A350, which was what I assumed would be my flight config when I booked it. However, it's listed as a 787-10, and I know this because the seating configuration I can choose from on the airline website (British Airways) clearly shows a 787-10 layout.

Maybe it's very tentative, but just an anecdotal observation.

They have been using 787 8's, 9's, A350-1000's, 777-200's and -300's into ORD over the last month. The -10's have not been to ORD yet but if they actually run the flight with a full passenger load you might get lucky as that's a brand new aircraft.

Daily Herald has an update on the Elgin-Ohare-West Bypass project. Work on the interchange of IL-390 and I-490 should begin this year, at the corner of York and Thorndale Roads. This will include some ramp stubs for a future western terminal.

Once the Tollway builds access ramps over the UP rail line there, the city is prepared to build a parking lot and screening facility for employees only (probably with a bus connection to terminals, hangars and other facilities).

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/202...burban-driving

^ Itsa massive crazy project. Simultaneously running an international airport that is one of the busiest in both categories of Pax AND Cargo, reconfiguring And adding new terminals AND runways, building new control towers, realigning multiple rail lines AND rail yards, rebuilding AND adding new tollways on ALL sides. Adding a new western access that includes new local roadways AND utilities.
Any questions on how and why Chicago economy is emerging from pandemic-L00K HERE!

Terminal 5 Expansion Completion Date (Theory)
 

I think I have a new theory for when the Terminal 5 expansion will be completed.

So you know how Delta currently operates out of Terminal 2, but usually only uses regional jets, A220s, and Boeing 717s because the gates they have are only for smaller aircraft? Well, once Delta moves to Terminal 5, they will have access to bigger gates that can support bigger narrow bodies and even a gate for a wide body. This image below shows Terminal 5 after renovations, and all of the orange planes represent Delta's new gates.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...8b41b2c2_h.jpg

So I went on Google Flights and played around with dates, and noticed that Delta started switching the regional jets, B717s and A220s with A319s, A320s, B737s, and even a decent amount of A321s staring June 5th. Even the short routes like Minneapolis show that the regional jets have been switched to bigger aircraft. So I wonder if by then, the Terminal 5 expansion will be complete and Delta would've moved there so that they have gates to operate the bigger narrow bodies.

So could June 5th be the target completion date for the Terminal 5 expansion?

If you look at this post with construction photos from March 18th (that you also apparently commented on twitter) the Terminal 5 expansion is still very much under construction, and will probably extend well into 2022:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=3004

It is pretty much impossible to complete construction on such a massive, complex project in a little over 2 months.

Yeah Delta is just upguaging for heightened summer demand once more and more people are vaccinated. T5 expansion isn't going to done in a few months.

I wouldn't call this "massive". The Global Terminal project is massive, this is just a small expansion. I do agree that 2 months is fast, but I wouldn't say impossible.

Still though, you probably are right. I just wish there would be more public updates.

Good point, but these changes are permanent, not just for summer. They run through 2022.

Also, speaking of Terminal 5:

https://mms.businesswire.com/media/2...jpg?download=1

View Smart Windows To Be Installed at Chicago O’Hare International Airport’s Terminal 5 Expansion

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...al-5-Expansion

That is a positive development. I am fascinated to see when complete how much traffic ends up on 490 within the toll road itself as well as at the connections to Irving Park, York, and Touhy. I have not been to the Irving Park and York intersection in a number of years but I recall even after the rail line was moved above grade, there was still a consistent amount of congestion. With nearby 490 connections that could increase. Perhaps a more localized problem compared to the benefits 490 might bring to the completed system, which ideally will reduce unnecessary trips on the major expressways 90 and 294.

Does anyone know if any of the Tollway/CDOT/CDA has ever released info regarding the estimated number of average daily vehicle trips to O'Hare but broken down by origin points?

Is there any chance the Blue Line gets extended to Schaumburg as part of West-side access?

That would be amazing...one can dream..

I see Blue Line access out to Schaumburg as practically useless. A ride from Woodfield to downtown Chicago would take well over an hour in such a scenario. At that point, any trains from the Schaumburg Metra beat it in terms of travel time. Granted that Schaumburg Metra isn't anywhere near Woodfield but oh well. Then there would still be a good many last-mile trips to Schauburgs auto-centric hell office buildings and retail. Thereby adding to the trip time. Meanwhile draining the CTA of valuable fuel and operations dollars to extend another 8 miles from O'Hare to Schaumburg. I see very little benefit for the city or even the metro as a whole.

With the possible southern extension of the Red Line being the exception the limits of the CTA should be regarded as established in my opinion. Focus on further inter-CTA connectivity and build-out.

Such a line would be used primarily by reverse commuters and retail workers, who are presumably currently piling onto the many existing bus routes from Rosemont to EGV/Woodfield/Schaumburg.

Right! They won't be done for a while. Hopefully if they completed construction in early 2022 or so.

What about Southwest Airlines and Frontier Airlines???? Will they ever stay at T5? They don't have enough gate space available.

I believe the general concept is to put United, American, and their partners at T123 and exile everyone else to T5. That is dependent on completion of the T2 Global Terminal however.

Here's a rendering I found of the T5 parking garage: https://www.flychicago.com/SiteColle...reachEvent.pdf

I think Delta's move to T5 opens up a lot of exciting possibilities since it will continue to have a separate immigration processing facility. Years ago Delta had been rumored to be considering flights from Chicago to LHR. This move could eventually open up additional possibilities for Delta.

Is it also safe to assume that KLM, Air France, Aeroméxico and Korean Air will continue to operate out of T5 since they are members of the SkyTeam Alliance.

I wouldn’t build a CTA line. It should be a separate line, separate operator like the STAR Line that was studied years ago. But even that I wouldn’t support, given the high cost and the weaksauce development that Schaumburg calls “walkable” at the old Motorola campus. If that’s the best they can do on density, then no rail for them.

The best thing is to keep investing in the I-90 bus system and add bus lanes/proper shelters like the Pulse routes where the buses diverge from the highway. While we’re at it, how about moving the Schaumburg bus terminal onto mall property instead of 1/2 mile away across a major arterial?

Yes that is correct. United/American domestic will operate out of T1 and T3, United/American international and Star/Oneworld alliance airlines will operate out of the Global Terminal, and Delta and Skyteam alliance airlines will operate out of T5. I also think the low cost carriers that are currently operating out of T5 will stay there, and Spirit will continue to use some gates in the L concourse.

Delta will gain access to their own wide body capable gate when they move to T5, so that definitely leaves the possibility for them to offer international flights. Delta in fact used to have a seasonal international flight from Chicago to Paris. The only problem though is that ORD isn't one of their hubs or even focus cities, and they've instead chosen DTW and MSP for their midwest hubs. I hope that Delta at least makes ORD a focus city because in my opinion, they are missing out in one of the world's largest aviation markets.

Delta does have a base of flight attendants here in Chicago, so we aren't completely overlooked.

With Alaska Airlines joining the Oneworld Alliance, does that mean Alaska with operate out of T3 as well?

Disagree, traffic isn't just to downtown, trips between Woodfield and the O'Hare area could also be significant.

As always the key will be what planning accompany's it. If you just run a heavy transit line through strip mall parking lots, you will never see ridership. If the adjoining suburbs take it upon themselves and an oppurtunity to increase residential density (and therefore tax base) in areas that are already very high denisty commercial uses, then it could work fantastically. There are a number of suburbs encouraging the "Texas Donut" style construction of dense, 4-5 floor, apartment blocks. If you put a few dozen of those along that 8 mile stretch, it could go a long ways in making areas West of O'Hare significantly more vibrant and pedestrian oriented.

Good question. I would assume that they would either operate in the L concourse with Spirit, or in one of the new satellite concourses in the global terminal. Probably the one furthest left in the picture below (since that one looks like narrow body gates, while the other satellite concourse and global terminal have wide body gates).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2xxMeSU...jpg&name=large

BTW as mentioned in a previous post by normarandlee, the satellite concourses are being designed by SOM while the Global Terminal is designed by StudioORD. The above picture shows StudioORD's concourses, so the actual concourses will probably look different. There are no pictures of SOM's concourses yet, but I'm assuming they'll look something like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9f731d7f_c.jpg

Why is there no Terminal 4? Shouldn't Terminal 5 be 4?

Terminal 4 was the old temporary international terminal in the 1st for floor of the parking garage that was used while they were building T5. It's obviously no longer used.

When Terminal 1 was being reconstructed into the current satellite concourse design in the 80s for United, Terminal 4 used to be the old temporary international terminal at O'Hare. It was located on the bottom floor of the parking garage, and buses would transport people from there to the planes. Terminal 5, the current international terminal, would later be built in the 90s, and when Terminal 4 closed, they didn't rename Terminal 5 for whatever reason.

Yes Delta does completely overlook ORD. They are forced to come to ORD due to Skyteam and also try to pull traffic out of Chicago for the ATL hub and to a lesser degree the MSP/DTW hubs.


Alaska Airlines is at G concourse with Jet Blue, both of wich just moved there.

Didn't Delta who flew ORD-CDG before? Delta who tried in the past and it did not work. Due to low demand.

Yeah they are kind of stuck in purgatory since they don't want to expand into a full hub at ORD but can't ignore the market or their alliances. I don't really see a way out from that unless the earth just suddenly swallows up DTW.

So this might be a little off-topic, but I don't post at Airliners.net and haven't found any quick-reference information related to the Boeing 737-MAX return to flight and figured there are lots of enthusiasts here with a bit of knowledge and, well anyhow. . .

I've been flying to/from Laredo Texas over the last year just about every month as my SO has been taking care of her ageing parents who live down there, and ever since covid the airlines have changed their schedules I've had to makes some adjustments in who I fly. . . ideally I fly United via Houston (IAH) from O'Hare (ORD), but their schedules have been less than ideal for me based upon my time off from work and whatnot, so I've been flying American via Dallas (DFW) on the last 14 trips I've taken. . . Now that covid seems to be waning a bit there has been an increase in ridership and the schedules appear to have changed again and I'm adjusting my itineraries back to United. . .

On my scheduled trip in May I've received a notification from United that my flights between Chicago and Houston will be on Boeing 737-MAX aircraft. . . this is kinda surprising as I haven't really been following the news about the MAX returning to service and am wondering how widespread this is among carriers with MAX aircraft in their fleet? I'm excited to fly on one as I've only had the opportunity once before to fly on a MAX plane back before it was taken out of service. . . I understand why they wouldn't want to make this a huge news story as there's nothing better to scare away customers than to remind people of an airplane disaster scenario. . .

Anyhow, thoughts?

Also wondering if there's any news on that ATS. . . seems like they're radio silent on how that's going. . .

. . .

The Max was recertified to fly towards the end of 2020, and since then, many airlines have brought it back into service (including American, United, Alaska, Southwest)

I'll try to sum up the Max fiasco as best as I can, but basically the two crashed that happened were due to false data from the sensors which triggered MCAS and the pilots couldn't control it. MCAS was created because the size of the engines and how they were located further up on the wing on the 737 Max could cause the plane to stall, so MCAS was designed to push the plane down in the event of a stall.

The difference this time around is that MCAS relies on more sensors now, and pilots have the training and ability to easily override it if they have to.

^Thanks. . . I know the history. . . just wasn't sure the timeframes as none of my AA flights between ORD and DFW have been on MAX planes (mostly Airbus A321), so it was a surprise to see the MAX on my ORD to IAH flights. . .

One thing the United explainer notes is that the MAX planes will be flying with dual sensors rather than a single sensor as they claim was being used in their MCAS systems. . . among other things. . .

Buried deep in the FAQ United notes that the MAX flights went back into service on February 11th. . . I wonder how smoothly the rollout of the augmented aircraft has gone. . .

. . .

Prior to the current big master plan, there seems to have been some thought that there'd be a future Terminal 4 that would replace the heating and cooling plant next to Terminal 3. The temporary terminal that was set up in the parking garage from 1984-1993 was called Terminal 4. In part to avoid confusion, and in part because there might someday be a new terminal south of Terminal 3, the new international terminal was called Terminal 5 when it opened.