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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

DoubleK Jun 25, 2019 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDP (Post 8612637)
Toronto Pearson Revenue (in Millions) for Q1 2019

Landing Fees: 78.4 Million
Concessions & rentals: 67.6 Million
Parking and ground transportation: 49.6 million
General terminal charges: 47.8
Other: 9.1 Million

(page 10 if you are looking, 2019 report)
https://www.torontopearson.com/en/co...ns-and-reports

That's revenue, not income.

What I'm trying to get at is, is this a service that they could contract out a parking company and focus on running the airport.

thenoflyzone Jun 25, 2019 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK (Post 8615633)
That's revenue, not income.

What I'm trying to get at is, is this a service that they could contract out a parking company and focus on running the airport.

That's how it's done at YUL. Indigo manages the parking.

https://ca.parkindigo.com/en

DDP Jun 25, 2019 9:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK (Post 8615633)
That's revenue, not income.

What I'm trying to get at is, is this a service that they could contract out a parking company and focus on running the airport.

Pearson has been focusing on increasing revenue from the parking to pay for other areas it operates and under its control. What I posted was revenue, for the most part airports do not give up on high revenue areas.

Parking has gone from 120 Million in 2010 to 195 million in 2019. They think they can get to 250 million by 2025. Adding new cars costs them little, this has turned into a major profit center for the airport.

DDP Jun 25, 2019 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8615860)
That's how it's done at YUL. Indigo manages the parking.

https://ca.parkindigo.com/en

Montreal hires someone to operate parking daily, the airport still keeps the revenue. The airport in Montreal collects close to $100 million a year from parking and wants to increase it. They are putting in large investments to grow that number.

Go through there financials and forecasts, parking is a major component for revenue growth. Airports across the country want to grow non aeronautical revenue - that means parking, shopping, restaurants, services, hotels etc.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...18_ENG_WEB.pdf

thenoflyzone Jun 26, 2019 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DDP (Post 8615905)
Montreal hires someone to operate parking daily, the airport still keeps the revenue. The airport in Montreal collects close to $100 million a year from parking and wants to increase it. They are putting in large investments to grow that number.

Go through there financials and forecasts, parking is a major component for revenue growth. Airports across the country want to grow non aeronautical revenue - that means parking, shopping, restaurants, services, hotels etc.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...18_ENG_WEB.pdf

Yes. I know.

I actually posted about the 2018 Annual report last month, on May 12, to be precise. I even highlighted the fact that for a third year in a row, YUL ranked first among Canadian airports in per-passenger commercial revenue, for the 12 months ending June 30, 2018.

https://forum.skyscraperpage.com/sho....php?p=8566034

thenoflyzone Jun 26, 2019 2:08 PM

AC extending Qatar Airways leases til end of September. At this rate, I'm not sure if the Max will fly at all this year.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...e-to-sep-2019/

Quote:

Air Canada earlier this month extended leased Qatar Airways A330-200 operation, on Montreal – Barcelona and Montreal – Paris CDG route. Leased Qatar A330 service is now scheduled until 29SEP19 (Canada departure), instead of 31AUG19.

Montreal – Barcelona
AC2402 YUL2255 – 1210+1BCN 332 D
AC2403 BCN1410 – 1625YUL 332 D

Montreal – Paris CDG
AC884 YUL1750 – 0630+1CDG 77W D
AC2400 YUL2050 – 0945+1CDG 332 D

AC871 CDG1055 – 1220YUL 77W D
AC2401 CDG1510 – 1655YUL 332 D

The seasonal 2nd daily Paris service, currently operating as AC2400/2401, is scheduled until 12/13SEP19.

nname Jun 26, 2019 6:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8616487)
AC extending Qatar Airways leases til end of September.

Same with Omni to Hawaii.

thenoflyzone Jun 27, 2019 1:50 PM

It's official. AC buying TS. Subject to shareholder and regulatory approval.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...deal-1.5192056

Quote:

The plan is to maintain the two companies as separate entities, maintaining the two different brands, head offices and key functions in Montreal, the companies said in a release.
Let's see how long they keep both brands separate.

wave46 Jun 27, 2019 1:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8617572)
It's official. AC buying TS. Subject to shareholder and regulatory approval.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...deal-1.5192056



Let's see how long they keep both brands separate.

I say less than 5 years. Just enough to keep regulators happy, then all promises are forgotten.

You'd think AC has enough on its plate and would avoid distractions like these, but maybe they've forgotten the joy of mergers as the last one went so well.

MonctonRad Jun 27, 2019 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8617581)
I say less than 5 years. Just enough to keep regulators happy, then all promises are forgotten.

You'd think AC has enough on its plate and would avoid distractions like these, but maybe they've forgotten the joy of mergers as the last one went so well.

My concern is that smaller airports (like YQM in Moncton) will lose out because of this merger.

We have many winter destination flights out of Moncton to places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica and Florida served by Air Transat and SunWing. I would be concerned that Air Canada (wedded as it is to the hub and spoke model), will use their newly acquired aircraft to create leisure service based out of Toronto & Montreal exclusively, and that peons in the outer colonies (such as myself) will be expected to use connecting aircraft to get to our winter destinations, rather than having direct flights as we do now.......... :(

Dominion301 Jun 27, 2019 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8615604)
That is an abysmal departure time out of DEL. When AC42/43 returns, AI will have a tough time competing.

Will they heavily compete or codeshare on each others' flights as Star partners?

So long as the MAX is grounded, I don't think AC42/43 return until that's lifted.

wave46 Jun 27, 2019 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8617635)
My concern is that smaller airports (like YQM in Moncton) will lose out because of this merger.

We have many winter destination flights out of Moncton to places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica and Florida served by Air Transat and SunWing. I would be concerned that Air Canada (wedded as it is to the hub and spoke model), will use their newly acquired aircraft to create leisure service based out of Toronto & Montreal exclusively, and that peons in the outer colonies (such as myself) will be expected to use connecting aircraft to get to our winter destinations, rather than having direct flights as we do now.......... :(

Yes. Smaller outstations will be up a creek, but hopefully Sunwing will pick up the slack.

I mostly wonder about the Quebec market. Air Transat is the only real competition there - Westjet is a minor player at best. The incentive to cull flights on which Air Canada and Air Transat compete on out of the Quebec market will be quite strong.

wave46 Jun 27, 2019 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8617640)
Will they heavily compete or codeshare on each others' flights as Star partners?

So long as the MAX is grounded, I don't think AC42/43 return until that's lifted.

I thought it might have to do with all the airspace closures in the region moreso than the MAX issues, per se.

whatnext Jun 27, 2019 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8616824)
Same with Omni to Hawaii.

Damn. Why can't they wetlease from Hawaiian!!!

hollywoodcory Jun 27, 2019 7:26 PM

WS/DL JV approved by Canadian regulators today. Now up to the US DOT.

http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2019-06...-joint-venture

Pinus Jun 27, 2019 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8617635)
My concern is that smaller airports (like YQM in Moncton) will lose out because of this merger.

We have many winter destination flights out of Moncton to places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica and Florida served by Air Transat and SunWing. I would be concerned that Air Canada (wedded as it is to the hub and spoke model), will use their newly acquired aircraft to create leisure service based out of Toronto & Montreal exclusively, and that peons in the outer colonies (such as myself) will be expected to use connecting aircraft to get to our winter destinations, rather than having direct flights as we do now.......... :(

They are likely going to ingegrate AT into their "only Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto airports are important, and screw everyone else" model, better known as the Hub and Spoke model, so yes airports like yours will likely get the shaft and have non-stop flights taken away from you.

Djeffery Jun 27, 2019 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8617635)
My concern is that smaller airports (like YQM in Moncton) will lose out because of this merger.

We have many winter destination flights out of Moncton to places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica and Florida served by Air Transat and SunWing. I would be concerned that Air Canada (wedded as it is to the hub and spoke model), will use their newly acquired aircraft to create leisure service based out of Toronto & Montreal exclusively, and that peons in the outer colonies (such as myself) will be expected to use connecting aircraft to get to our winter destinations, rather than having direct flights as we do now.......... :(

Is AC going to bring up some old 747's out of the desert to handle the capacity out of Toronto that would be needed if they thought they could get even half the people in smaller cities like yours and mine (London) that have these seasonal direct sun flights to connect through a hub? WestJet and Sunwing will be only too happy to step in and fill that gap I think, especially as Sunwing isn't that shy of bringing in seasonal aircraft from overseas.

thenoflyzone Jun 28, 2019 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8617635)
My concern is that smaller airports (like YQM in Moncton) will lose out because of this merger.

We have many winter destination flights out of Moncton to places like the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica and Florida served by Air Transat and SunWing. I would be concerned that Air Canada (wedded as it is to the hub and spoke model), will use their newly acquired aircraft to create leisure service based out of Toronto & Montreal exclusively, and that peons in the outer colonies (such as myself) will be expected to use connecting aircraft to get to our winter destinations, rather than having direct flights as we do now.......... :(

If a void is created, other airlines will step in and fill it.

The competition bureau will most likely approve the merger, but not before enforcing several concessions on AC. These might come in terms of route (slot/frequency) concessions.

This is where WS and Sunwing have the most to gain from this merger.

I can see WS opening several TATL/sun routes out of YYZ/YUL, ones where AC will need to concede slots.

Look at all the TATL routes out of YYZ/YUL where only AC and TS operate. Let's see if WS plays its cards right with this. It might be the nudge they needed to finally enter the Quebec market with some decent service to places other than YYZ and YYC.

If I was WS, I would already be lobbying with the competition bureau to make sure these concessions happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 8618188)
Is AC going to bring up some old 747's out of the desert to handle the capacity out of Toronto that would be needed if they thought they could get even half the people in smaller cities like yours and mine (London) that have these seasonal direct sun flights to connect through a hub? WestJet and Sunwing will be only too happy to step in and fill that gap I think, especially as Sunwing isn't that shy of bringing in seasonal aircraft from overseas.

Correct.

Sun flying out of secondary stations wont be affected too much, as Sunwing is king in that department. If anything, the AC will need to add more sun flying from secondary destinations to better compete, not remove flights.

Look at what AC is doing at YQB. For the first time in decades (or ever, not sure), they will be starting sun routes from YQB next winter. That strategy will continue, and as more Rouge A319/A320/A321s are deployed on domestic runs, this will enable AC to use those very same frames on US/Carribean runs from secondary stations, if the demand is there.

Cage Jun 28, 2019 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8617647)
Yes. Smaller outstations will be up a creek, but hopefully Sunwing will pick up the slack.

I mostly wonder about the Quebec market. Air Transat is the only real competition there - Westjet is a minor player at best. The incentive to cull flights on which Air Canada and Air Transat compete on out of the Quebec market will be quite strong.

There is a strong incentive for AC to combine TS and Rouge flying in Quebec. Further this enhances Canadian Air Travel market because Canada would get a second fortress hub in YUL. The Quebec tourism market and provincial government will push hard for the feds to approve a full integration of TS into AC.

Cage Jun 28, 2019 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8617572)
It's official. AC buying TS. Subject to shareholder and regulatory approval.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...deal-1.5192056



Let's see how long they keep both brands separate.

It will take a minimum 2 years to integrate the two companies. Pilots and FA union contracts will need to be coordinated. Seniority will be an issue, especially with the pilots. Lots of time to rehash old merger discussions about "bottom of the list"; "no bump, no flush"; "new AC pilots careers destroyed by senior TS pilots".

There is also the problem of sorting out YYZ. TS can't be integrated into T1 and AC can't run a hub spread across T1-T3-Infield. For now, keeping TS separate allows for GTAA and AC and other airlines at YYZ to sort themselves out.

In flight product is a third issue to sort out and integrate hard product. TS 333s are 9 across whereas AC 333s are industry standard 8 across. Big seat will have to be improved to Rouge Premium.

5 years is probably too long of a time to integrate.

One thing that won't happen this time, people will still book TS flights and vacation packages with confidence. Back in early 2000; the CP bookings dried up because the public was concerned their CP flights would get cancelled and their money lost to bankruptcy court. My old man was at AC and point person for schedule integration between AC and CP. Overnight implementation of the schedule integration and placing AC code onto CP flights was caused by AC flights being oversold 2 months out while CP flights to same destination at same time had less than 20 pax booked. Migrating from Sabre to Res3 was necessitated by 75% of the pax being sourced from RES3 for CP operated flights.


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